The Momus feedback

[Kolath]

I have to say this map is pretty frustrating. I spent several hundred turns turtled in, with Perpentach alternating between "everybody gang up on the Lanun" and "everybody fight everybody". Each time that I tried to detach a force large enough to take an AI player's city, another AI sent their invasion force and I was forced to withdraw.

Yes. It started out switching to random people fighting and then seemed to get stuck on everybody fight lanun. I got several popups from Perp with the same everyone fight lanun text.

I hadn't realized they needed a harbor to produce [champions]. Fortunately I did get Heron's Throne built in the one coastal city I have... so I have a total of one city which I can use to produce Boarding Parties, while the Infernals can produce Champions in as many cities as they happen to possess.

Oh no! I have never played Lanun before so I didn't realize that they need harbors. That will make this scenario VERY hard!

Overall I think it is a very neat concept, but it seems like the map size combined with the switching mechanic and the kill everyone mechanic will make this scenario really frustrating. I realize the point of the scenarios is to have different game types and this one clearly is not "for me" (I prefer builder civs). But I am sad that I will have to slog through in order to unlock the next scenarios.

 

[lordrune]

I checked the technology advisor - had the Infernals outteched me, did I need to research something to get Champions of my own? It turned out that no, this wasn't the case - I'd had the technology for them for at least a hundred turns, but I hadn't realized they needed a harbor to produce. Fortunately I did get Heron's Throne built in the one coastal city I have... so I have a total of one city which I can use to produce Boarding Parties, while the Infernals can produce Champions in as many cities as they happen to possess.

This sounds like I'm up for a slow, slow grind.

Aye, the infernals I think are quite possibly overpowered in this particular setup. I got SODed by them very quickly into the game (thanks Perpentach...).

 

[Zechnophobe]

I haven't finished it, the first time I got chosen to get piled on third time 'round' and just got whiped out. It's a really slow paced scenario, because the threat of dogpile means you must make huge armies.

Not particularly dynamic either. I'm not sure that there are many 'different' ways to play it. We'll see.

 

[Grey Fox]

I saved and started some other scenarios. This scenario is fun, more fun than a regular game where I've set out to conquer the whole world, but the map is very big and the AI got lots of troops so it will take some time.

 

[Love]

I gave up when i couldn't make peace with perpy. And for the diseases you get by the infernals, use a priest with cure disease on the army and your done.

 

[Skitters]

Started this last night, my first thought is that it is a stark jump up from the Grand Menagarie scenario and as such I'm kind of wondering if it would be better if the map was half the size and if the number of AI civs (excluding Perp) was trimmed to five? (map size perhaps being set so that there is enough room for around 20 cities...and perhaps Perp be set to be unable to build Settlers)

Love Perps mood swings, and the accompanying poems.

 

[LDiCesare]

-AAAARGH. I feel like this is some kind of punishment. "No you can't get to the next scenario until you conquer every single little city on the map."

I have a bit of the same opinion regarding having to finish this scenario to unlock the next:
I don't like this scenario, but I like even less that it is needed to unlock another one (I hate the concept of needing to play through something which may be boring in order to play something which may be fun, so I'd happily throw all the scenario requirement stuff in all games where they exist - it only makes sense in games where your units carry on from one scenario to the next, like the old Fantasy General...).

The concept sounds fun, but when you arrive just before the border and Perpie tells you 'No, stop it, attack someone on the other edge of the map please' and you have to wait it through, it's boring.
I believe Perpie is probably bored too. It's chaotic, but in such a way that you can't defeat people fast, so it just drags.
I think it would be much better if Perpentach made this game a 'killer' game. Namlely, you have to kill one opponent. Someone has to kill you. When you've defeated your target, you're given a new one. Ideally, you wouldn't know who wants to kill you, nor be able to attack them unless they are your target. At least this way, there'd be more focused wars, and you would still suddenly have to change your targets depending on the pair you're at war with.
But this way, changing too often makes for long boring games (or short everyone crushes you games).

 

[it-ogo]

Very nice variation: both total mutation and random wars. Maybe even good for game option. But once more: heroes should be immune to crazed/enraged!

When it starts to be boring there is always a worldbuilder.

 

[Kolath]

I think it would be much better if Perpentach made this game a 'killer' game. Namlely, you have to kill one opponent. Someone has to kill you. When you've defeated your target, you're given a new one. Ideally, you wouldn't know who wants to kill you, nor be able to attack them unless they are your target. At least this way, there'd be more focused wars, and you would still suddenly have to change your targets depending on the pair you're at war with.
But this way, changing too often makes for long boring games (or short everyone crushes you games).

Brilliant! It's like the game of assassins. This way you are always at war with 2 people at any time (your target and the person trying to kill you). It is a variation on a game of last man standing. Ideally everyone would get a target and when you eliminate a player their target becomes your target.

I think that could be a fun general game mode as well!

As for the scenario, I agree that one nice improvement would be to shrink the map size and reduce the number of opponents. This has the twin benefit of making the scenario shorter (thus less of a chore) and reducing the danger of being dogpiled.

 

[euripides]

My air elementals and fireballs cannot fly anymore, but the pedia lists them as flying (but they get flat movement cost). that´s quite a problem with all those water/mountain chokepoints. Often even spell extension 2 isnt enough for some raids on the enemy. I dont know if this problem persists in normal (non scenario) games.
Anyhow, i love this scenario. After surviving the first "all on lanun" action my elite troopers take one enemy after another. If i eventually get stopped by perpy, i can use the time to rebuild for 20 turns! very nice!

 

[Bitwise]

Personally, I love this scenario. I normally play very reserved builder games with late game conquest and this was a refreshing change of pace from that. I abandoned the coast (I know I know) and expanded north/northeast hemming in the Hippus and Infernals during the enforced peace. Having crippled their expansion when Perp decided everyone should go to war I piled on swordsmen + cats + saverous into the Hippus and killed them in 7 turns. Perp declared us on the Amurites and since they were too far away to trifle with I left them to the AI and worked on infrastructure until Perp called free for all again. Now I'm busily crushing the Infernals with cats + Saverous + Hemah. Even if Perp calls it off I've already taken so much land that I have a healthy lead in score and my industrial output is strong enough to defend against all my neighbors.

I suspect the cleanup on this scenario will be a pain, but I feel getting to the top has been a blast.

 

[salaminizer]

I think many of you must have figured already but if you don't get involved in the wars Perpentach will get them to attack you, IMO this makes the scenario even worse. you start after everyone and have to grow very FAST to be able to play along with Perpy, but you shouldn't be forced to throw units away just to be able to survive. also it doesn't help that you are surrounded by other civs, while Uldanor is in the right bottom, and as I said before, by the time people reach him, Perpy switches the target

 

[francois]

I am usually cool at Deity, but here, there is no obvious easy way ! You need very big guys or spells to come through promoted archers on the close-by city on hills, as well as defending against city raiders infernal champs.

And the easy kill guys are not there: No Duin, No Orthus axe for a big guy.
Magic seems your best chance, namely damaging priests, Chalid or Hemma as city takers. Priests healing was also quite necessary with all the mutations in my game.


There are also a few things that could make a fair game turn bad: If two/three neighboors unluckily perfectly coordinate their attack - your defense need is much higher.
It is also not so easy to predict the attacks locations if you have a few cities.

Maybe I had by luck from starting settings, and for repeted "all against Lanun" ... but that's definitely not an easy scenario for a number 2 !

 

[jimi12]

i ended up using tsunami to declare war on whoever i wanted. even with doing this, this is a very looong scenario. maybe just having to win a domination victory and not a total conquest victory would make it better?

 

[Xuenay]

I think many of you must have figured already but if you don't get involved in the wars Perpentach will get them to attack you,

Are you sure of this? This sounds like it might just be coincidence.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

Am I the only one that thought this scenario was easy? I built two cities in the immediate starting are, got them to produce 100+ beakers, fortified the 3 choke points, and got myself a nice stack of doom consisting of Chalid, Gurbrush, A Luridus, 2 air 2 mages, 2 archery units 4 rathas and a host of boarding parties all having 3 move speed. Eventually captured a vampire too. After a 250 turn rampage, the game was won. Once you get the army, it takes a while to kill every city, but I didn't think it was exactly hard.

 

[Love]

and what difficulty?

 

[Xuenay]

I got the past the frustration stage myself, and now I'm in a boring phase - like with the Return of Winter, once you've established yourself as sufficiently strong, individual opponents no longer give you any challenge (even if they'd all be united in fighting you). Perpentach told me to go fight somebody I haven't even met yet, and so I am spending my time building up my troops, massing an army which can just walk over any city once I end up in a war with somebody a bit closer again...

I would suggest changing the victory condition, so that instead of wiping out all the others you need to control 50% of the total area for 40 turns, or something.

(And please, fix the messages you get when destroying another civilization - at least a flavorful text would be a nice if small reward for the effort spent, but now I'm just annoyed that there might be a flavorful text underneath but I won't get a chance to see it.)

Just so I'd do something else than just complain, the picture of the Infernal leader is really neat-looking.

 

[salaminizer]

Are you sure of this? This sounds like it might just be coincidence.

well, I'm not sure (should check the Foreign Advisor because it may be free for all), but I thought the poem he read had to do with this.

 

[xienwolf]

Could you make "Always Mutate" into a normal game option? Seems to be active in this scenario and it is FUN! I got a Bambur with Blitz/Strong, then I got a settler with Blitz/Strong/Cannibalize/Heroic Offense! My settler is a 2/1 killing machine!