The Mongols could have conquered Europe?

[Princeps]

The Plague is as yet a century into the future

That's true. My mistake.

Although it is still possible that the Altaic and Mongol armies would have brought new diseases to Europe.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't think Europe's manpower would have been important. The Mongols usually (not always; see southern China) conquered their foes too quickly for them to bring all their resources to bear, and these were the Middle Ages; levies were even worse than in later years, and governments less able to support them due to less wealth and the need for farmers.

However, just because the Mongols experienced the Plague earlier does not make them any less helpless against it. They died in droves like anybody else.

Really, I think the only way they could have conquered Europe would be as a united Eurasian empire, and after Möngke (who was busy with China) that wasn't going to happen.

 

[Princeps]

However, just because the Mongols experienced the Plague earlier does not make them any less helpless against it. They died in droves like anybody else.

Yes, they died, not in equal measure. Their lifestyle protected them somewhat. The main problem posed by the plague to the Mongol Empire was lost revenue as it hit the economies they conquered and the trade along the silk road.

 

[Dachs]

Really, I think the only way they could have conquered Europe would be as a united Eurasian empire, and after Möngke (who was busy with China) that wasn't going to happen.

No, it just wasn't going to happen period.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Please give me detailed explanations of how they could have beaten the castles, gone without supply lines (horse blood can't last forever), stopped the Europeans from uniting under Christianity to fight the "Tartars" (sounded like Tartarus- hell), taken Venice, gone on after the Po River valley (where they should have been trapped), defeated the Holy Roman Empire, and finished off the rest of Europe. Until then I refuse to believe that they could have done so, especially since they would have killed their own horses by the command of the Pope.

I need details though.

They could easily have conquered Europe. It was only the protecting hand of the Almighty that protected the European peoples from the Mongol hordes - as God wished to save us for the fulfilment of His higher plan.

 

[Mouthwash]

They could easily have conquered Europe. It was only the protecting hand of the Almighty that protected the European peoples from the Mongol hordes - as God wished to save us for the fulfilment of His higher plan.

I hope this is some sort of troll...

 

[Evie]

Got to say, Dachs make a very compelling argument (although slightly weakened by the fact that we *have* spent the past century or so worrying precisely about an invasion of Europe from Russia . Just not THAT weakened ).

Have to admit, I'm curious what would have happened if northern China (base of those mongols who conquered southern china) had been next to Europe (Blame alien space bats for the sudden disappearance of Russia ), tho

 

[Kraznaya]

If they were put together by magic-space-time-warp, Europe would've been rolled.

 

[Veles]

The only reason why Europe wasn't utterly devastated by the steppe dogs (just like it was previously by Hunns, Avars and other scum) is because of the heroic and glorious stance of invincible God-chosen warriors of Holy Russia, the true guardians of Europe, who for centuries protected it from the destruction and misery. All European peoples are in eternal and unrepayable debt to Russia, and they don't even seem to realise that.

 

[Leoreth]

Lone Wolf is better at that.

 

[Veles]

Lone Wolf is better at that.

I'm not competeing.

 

[Phrossack]

No, it just wasn't going to happen period.

I know they prioritized China over Europe. What I'm suggesting is that a united Mongol Empire may have had the capability to do so had it devoted seven decades and most of its resources like it did China, not that they would have. Hell, the Yuan alone (vastly powerful, yes, but not the whole empire) were able to take the rest of China eventually.

Anyway, I'm tired of this discussion.

 

[Dachs]

I know they prioritized China over Europe. What I'm suggesting is that a united Mongol Empire may have had the capability to do so had it devoted seven decades and most of its resources like it did China, not that they would have. Hell, the Yuan alone (vastly powerful, yes, but not the whole empire) were able to take the rest of China eventually.

No, I mean, they weren't going to create a united and centralized enduring pan-Eurasian steppe empire.

 

[Phrossack]

No, I mean, they weren't going to create a united and centralized enduring pan-Eurasian steppe empire.

They certainly had a vast united empire in Eurasia for a few decades. But no, they never could have established an enduring one, and it wasn't especially centralized, I agree.

 

[Yui108]

They certainly had a vast united empire in Eurasia for a few decades. But no, they never could have established an enduring one, and it wasn't especially centralized, I agree.

~Vast, United
~few decades

Pick one

 

[Phrossack]

~Vast, United
~few decades

Pick one

Are you suggesting the empire under Chinggis and then Ögedai wasn't vast, united, or lasted at least 1206-1241? Because it was all of these.

 

[Yui108]

Are you suggesting the empire under Chinggis and then Ögedai wasn't vast, united, or lasted at least 1206-1241? Because it was all of these.

When we apply the term vast to as something in grand as scale in Eurasia (or significant enough to conquer Europe), no I would not say that the Mongol state as ruled by Chinggis qualified.

 

[Phrossack]

When we apply the term vast to as something in grand as scale in Eurasia (or significant enough to conquer Europe), no I would not say that the Mongol state as ruled by Chinggis qualified.

Then we have differing definitions of "vast".

 

[Joecoolyo]

When we apply the term vast to as something in grand as scale in Eurasia (or significant enough to conquer Europe), no I would not say that the Mongol state as ruled by Chinggis qualified.

Northern China to Central Iran is pretty vast IMO.

In comparison to the entire continent, no, but in comparison to other states at the time, yes.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

But how would they have gotten past the Po river valley despite being surrounded by the armies of the HRE, France, and the Italian states? That's what I picture happening.

no offense, but you think in Total War terms; it's different in real life... Coordinating two armies of the same country proved nigh on impossible most of the time.

That without getting into attempts to coordinate army corps of different "nations", feat which failed time and again(crusades are a glorious example of what "coordination" meant these days).

It's not like - we have 5 stacks and attack with one at a time and mounting losses makes us roll over them... And in real life, treachery exists far better than it's simulated in games.

nb. - I don't think the mongols had any shot of conquering Europe; but that's due to logistics and, well... lack of any reason to do so. But, mano a mano, if we warp the armies of mongols and europeans on some other dimension battlefield, I think the mongols would have thoroughly wipe the floor with the europeans.