The myth of hard work and meritocracy.

[Crezth]

But still, how can you argue that they're making more than they "should" be getting without resorting to some ambiguous description of corporate back-scratching? In other words, what amount of money could be appropriate?

 

[Cutlass]

Put the company owners back in charge of hiring and compensation and we'll see.

 

[Traitorfish]

The owners of the company I work for had no say in my employment or in how much I am paid. Am I, too, an embezzler?

 

[Cutlass]

Did you appoint the people who did decide what your pay is?

 

[Crezth]

Put the company owners back in charge of hiring and compensation and we'll see.

This is essentially impossible in a large organization without delegation.

 

[Traitorfish]

Did you appoint the people who did decide what your pay is?

My company is not so democratic, no.

 

[Cutlass]

My company is not so democratic, no.

So you don't have the same situation at all.

 

[Crezth]

Indeed; he is subject to the whims of capitalists. Progress!

 

[Birdjaguar]

It has been my experience that the more money I have made, the less work I actually have to do.

for most people, I have found that increased responsibility usually generates more pay, and the more money and people involved, the more the pay. Typically, more responsibility means more flexibility and a less rigid schedule. That flexibility can create the illusion of less work, but it really means that the work you have to do is different than most people do and often involves "thinking and planning" which often appear as idle time to others. Sitting in my office reading a 50 page contract can look like I am doing nothing.

 

[JollyRoger]

I am under no illusion that reading is hard work - especially when I am making more per minute than I did per hour with my first job (which actually did involve hard work).

 

[Birdjaguar]

"Hard" means different things to different people. My job is not hard from any physical standpoint, despite the long hours some weeks. Balancing the needs of my board of directors, staff and customers, though, can be "difficult".

Reading is not often hard, but making decisions based on reading can be important and have significant impacts on people lives. Higher pay is usually for the decisions and not the reading.

 

[JollyRoger]

I got paid $3.35/hour for prioritizing/balancing the needs of my customers and my various co-workers/making a shift full of decisions. While the decisions were not high impact for the big picture, I did have to make them one after the other for my entire shift. Now, I do not have to make very many decisons at a specific moment time - the closest it gets to my first job is in the courtroom - but if I am making too many on-the-spot decisions there, it means I screwed up in the more leisurely atmosphere of the office somewhere along the line.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yes, you are paid for your brainpower and knowledge of the Law. Reading cases in the office may not be hard, but figuring out how to use them when you get in court can be a pretty good skill. If it were easy, we'd have even more lawyers. It just looks easy and folks see it as a ticket to easy wealth. Law schools keep producing too many "bad" attorneys.

Specializing in knowledge can bring rewards when that knowledge is in demand or in short supply. I get paid well because I can make other people money.

 

[JollyRoger]

But because I have a skill and have managed to leverage that skill into a spot where people will pay me (not everyone with my skill is lucky enough for that to happen), I can work less hard. Even when I held positions not really acquiring skill the inverse ratio of hard work to money seemed to apply - it was less hard to work in a law firm mailroom than to bus tables, even though the mailroom job paid more.

 

[Archbob]

for most people, I have found that increased responsibility usually generates more pay, and the more money and people involved, the more the pay. Typically, more responsibility means more flexibility and a less rigid schedule. That flexibility can create the illusion of less work, but it really means that the work you have to do is different than most people do and often involves "thinking and planning" which often appear as idle time to others. Sitting in my office reading a 50 page contract can look like I am doing nothing.

I just tell people to make me certain types of apps and then I go out to state/national parks and take scenic photos. Its not that bad.

 

[civver_764]

There's some pretty weird logic going on in this thread. A lot of people seem to agree that you start out working harder and making less, and then that reverses once you "prove yourself."

Wouldn't it make more sense to reverse the order here?

 

[Archbob]

There's some pretty weird logic going on in this thread. A lot of people seem to agree that you start out working harder and making less, and then that reverses once you "prove yourself."

Wouldn't it make more sense to reverse the order here?

Then why would you work hard and prove yourself at all if you can just be lazy from the start and get paid a lot?

You have to work hard at the beginning to enjoy life later.

Most of us have gone through a bunch of not so great jobs and payed our dues in order to get to where we are today.

 

[fishjie]

I am a senior software dev so this not a poor person whining. Most CEOs are garbage. Do you know how they make companies profitable? Come in, lay off a buncha people, which increases profits short term (less expense) then leave 3 years later. Oh wait too bad long term that's a terrible strategy. Too bad the CEO has already left with a multi million parachute.

Only tech CEOs are worth a damn because those guys innovate and build . and yeah that is my bias.

 

[Traitorfish]

Most of us have gone through a bunch of not so great jobs and payed our dues in order to get to where we are today.

"Paid our dues", to me, implies that you owed somebody some sort of debt, and that only by clearing this debt was it morally permissible for you to get a decent job once the slate had been cleaned. A sort of moral indenture, almost. If it's possible, would you be able to explain how this "original debt" is acquired, how its exact degree is determined, and what the mechanism is by which it is resolved?

 

[Yeekim]

The CEO appoints the board

I beg your pardon?