Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Rambuchan said:My flagship rubber ducky would have out manoeuvered that transport, under my deft stewardship. And, with just one wheezy like quack, would have blown it clean out of the water.
Well obviously. Ducks pwn all
The Naval Warship Thread!
- Thread starter Cheezy the Wiz
- Start date
Well obviously. Ducks pwn all
Rambuchan
The Funky President
I dunno. I hear that Toys'r'us are now selling a most formidable submarine froggy division (in all the colours of the rainbow). Please, don't fall into the trap of being a complacent rubber duckyist.Kan' Sharuminar said:Well obviously. Ducks pwn all
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Rambuchan said:
Don't worry, I always trial the latest rubber toy divisions. I need to keep with the times!
Erm, warship!
Geobukseon "Turtle Ship", world's earliest ironclad warship
Chinese Treasure Ship, early Ming dynasty
Size comparison to Columbus' caravels.
http://community.middlebury.edu/~scs/maps/Ming treasure ship and St.Maria.jpg
Chinese Treasure Ship, early Ming dynasty
Size comparison to Columbus' caravels.
http://community.middlebury.edu/~scs/maps/Ming treasure ship and St.Maria.jpg
IglooDude said:
Maybe. Lemme look Monday for that pic I have of a destroyer hit by a harppon missile (it's on my work PC, IIRC). Steel superstructure doesn't make a difference at all - the missile removed everything above the waterline and some below for a length of roughly 12 feet I'd estimate. If the ship had been moving it would probably have broekn in half right there.
Verbose
Deity
But IIRC submarines aren't technically ships, they're boats.C~G said:
Nevertheless...
The pride of the Swedish Navy!
http://www.nti.org/db/submarines/sweden/index.html
C~G
Untouchable
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 4,146
I think in this case they should pass since creating new thread just for them would seem less thrilling.Verbose said:But IIRC submarines aren't technically ships, they're boats.
Finns don't have subs unless you count this one.
(They were forbidden from Finland as offensive weapons in Paris peace treaty.)
carlosMM said:
Steel gets soft and melty at far higher temperatures than aluminum - AFAIK it doesn't resist impact damage that much better, but the resulting fires is where it is nice to have.
Also, the Burkes have some armor (minimal by WWII standards) protecting vital spaces, unlike your average post-1960s escort.
it gets cool rather quickly at a depth of a few hundred feet, tooIglooDude said:
Seriously, anything PROPER that hits a destroyer takes it down - a Harpoon, a torpedo, maybe even a Hellfire. Anything smaller, though, say a few shells of a 5'', I admit the steel will make a diff.
Yeah, let me quote an former NAVY engineer gone care engineer I met a while ago: "It is the same as with cars: compare a New Beelte to a bettle - newer versions get bigger, sturdier, safer, more complex - and much much more expensive. So you can buy fewer and fewer for the buck"
The Fjonis
Prince
The USS Turner Joy, which was involved in the Tonkin Incident leading up to the Vietnam War. I was on board it this summer, as it has been turned into a floating museum. Pretty neat. In the same town, Bremerton, WA, were also 3 aircraft carriers and plenty of other ships, probably out of commission. Those things are huge!!
nonconformist
Miserable
Are those frigates you sailed on, ID?
I present the XXI Type U-boat, the final U-boat to go into production, and the prototype for every post war submarine.
Having been designed and commisioned in 1945, successes were few (maybe even nil). After capturing a number of them the US navy copied pretty much every aspect, as it was far advanced from anything the Allied had.
The bridge and anti aircraft emplacements of the type XXI.
Just visible is the Schnorkel.
The submarine was faster underwater than surfaced.
Surfaced it could reach up to 15 knots under the power of its 2 diesel engines. Underwater, it could reach a revolutionary 17 knots under the power of its 2 electric engines.
The type XXI was equipped with a Schnorkel, which was effetively a snorkel used while submerged, so that the diesels could be used.
While submerged, a submarine could not use its diesels, because ther was no air-flow; the diesel would suffocate the crew with fumes, while asphyxiating them. This allowed only the electrics to be used underwater, with a limited battery time.
As the Allies had full air superiority, this meant that the subs had to remain submerged all day. Obviously a sub could not propel itself alday on the electrics.
The Schnorkel allowed it to propel itself with its disels.
The Mark XXI was aso equipped with RADAR (which was often left off; as it was primitive, compared to that of the allies, and it gave away the position of the submarine, ruining any surprise; and without surprise, a sub is useless. Even small arms fire can be deadly to it).
The sub was armed with six torpedo tubes, all located in the fore. Oddly, this was a step backwards (almost) for the Germans, as it was the first sub for a while to not have a stern tube, firing just below the props.
The XXI also encompassed a revolutionary new loading system which allowed extraordinary diligence in firing.
Had it come into production sooner, it could have made the war very, very painful for the allies.
The XXI was the first of a new breed of vessels.
Unlike the previous U-boats, or anything any country had produced, the XXI was a true Submarine, capable of sustaining itself underwater for long periods of time.
All the other U-boats were merely extremely weak surface craft with the option of submerging. In fact, quite unlike Hollywood would have you think, the majority of U-boat attacks were conducted not submerged using the periscope, but surfaced, at night, with the Kaleun, First Officer, armaments officer, and the Watch officer, using a binocular like device called the UZO (Unterboot ZieleOptik).
Phew, my fingers and brain hurt after that
Bonus shots of U-boat Kaleuns:
Gunther Prien was the archetypal U-boat hero.
Gunter Prien hd managed to sail his U-boat right into Scapa Flow, the British naval headquarters, and sank the Royal Oak.
While sympathetic to the Nazis, even Churchill had commended him: "a remarkable exploit of professional skill and daring".
Prien's boat was lost in 1941 with all hand aboard.
Otto Kretschmer was the highest scoring ace of WWII, with 46 boats sunk, for a total of 273 000 tons.
Kretschmer's boat was sunk, but he along with the majority of the crew escaped, and he was captured.
Werner Hartenstein, after sinking a ship was horrified to see it had contained hundred s of women and children. He surfaced, and packed the inside and deck of his submarine with survivors, as well as tying lifeboats to the sub, and sailed tghem to allied captivity, where his boat was attacked, and they were forced to submerge and escape.
His boat was sunk with all hands in 1943.
Fritz-Julius Lemp got the first U-boat kill in WWII, sinking the unarmed liner Athena the day Britain declared war on Germany,
He later commanded the U-110,famous for being under his command when it was captured afloat by the HMS Bulldog, allowing the British to gain access to the Engima codes.
While the British were boarding the abandoned U-boat (which its crew had abandoned, thinkijng it was singing), Lemp disappeared, allegedly having realised the British were boarding, jumping overboard, swimming back towards the sub before being shot by a British soldier.
I present the XXI Type U-boat, the final U-boat to go into production, and the prototype for every post war submarine.
Having been designed and commisioned in 1945, successes were few (maybe even nil). After capturing a number of them the US navy copied pretty much every aspect, as it was far advanced from anything the Allied had.
The bridge and anti aircraft emplacements of the type XXI.
Just visible is the Schnorkel.
The submarine was faster underwater than surfaced.
Surfaced it could reach up to 15 knots under the power of its 2 diesel engines. Underwater, it could reach a revolutionary 17 knots under the power of its 2 electric engines.
The type XXI was equipped with a Schnorkel, which was effetively a snorkel used while submerged, so that the diesels could be used.
While submerged, a submarine could not use its diesels, because ther was no air-flow; the diesel would suffocate the crew with fumes, while asphyxiating them. This allowed only the electrics to be used underwater, with a limited battery time.
As the Allies had full air superiority, this meant that the subs had to remain submerged all day. Obviously a sub could not propel itself alday on the electrics.
The Schnorkel allowed it to propel itself with its disels.
The Mark XXI was aso equipped with RADAR (which was often left off; as it was primitive, compared to that of the allies, and it gave away the position of the submarine, ruining any surprise; and without surprise, a sub is useless. Even small arms fire can be deadly to it).
The sub was armed with six torpedo tubes, all located in the fore. Oddly, this was a step backwards (almost) for the Germans, as it was the first sub for a while to not have a stern tube, firing just below the props.
The XXI also encompassed a revolutionary new loading system which allowed extraordinary diligence in firing.
Had it come into production sooner, it could have made the war very, very painful for the allies.
The XXI was the first of a new breed of vessels.
Unlike the previous U-boats, or anything any country had produced, the XXI was a true Submarine, capable of sustaining itself underwater for long periods of time.
All the other U-boats were merely extremely weak surface craft with the option of submerging. In fact, quite unlike Hollywood would have you think, the majority of U-boat attacks were conducted not submerged using the periscope, but surfaced, at night, with the Kaleun, First Officer, armaments officer, and the Watch officer, using a binocular like device called the UZO (Unterboot ZieleOptik).
Phew, my fingers and brain hurt after that
Bonus shots of U-boat Kaleuns:
Gunther Prien was the archetypal U-boat hero.
Gunter Prien hd managed to sail his U-boat right into Scapa Flow, the British naval headquarters, and sank the Royal Oak.
While sympathetic to the Nazis, even Churchill had commended him: "a remarkable exploit of professional skill and daring".
Prien's boat was lost in 1941 with all hand aboard.
Otto Kretschmer was the highest scoring ace of WWII, with 46 boats sunk, for a total of 273 000 tons.
Kretschmer's boat was sunk, but he along with the majority of the crew escaped, and he was captured.
Werner Hartenstein, after sinking a ship was horrified to see it had contained hundred s of women and children. He surfaced, and packed the inside and deck of his submarine with survivors, as well as tying lifeboats to the sub, and sailed tghem to allied captivity, where his boat was attacked, and they were forced to submerge and escape.
His boat was sunk with all hands in 1943.
Fritz-Julius Lemp got the first U-boat kill in WWII, sinking the unarmed liner Athena the day Britain declared war on Germany,
He later commanded the U-110,famous for being under his command when it was captured afloat by the HMS Bulldog, allowing the British to gain access to the Engima codes.
While the British were boarding the abandoned U-boat (which its crew had abandoned, thinkijng it was singing), Lemp disappeared, allegedly having realised the British were boarding, jumping overboard, swimming back towards the sub before being shot by a British soldier.
nonconformist said:
they were nil. but they could have been enormous. E.g.: the day AFTER the capitulation a type XXI boat met, tracked and approached underwater a British Cruiser with escorts. It got within a few hundred yards - easy shooting distance. The captain watched the cruiser through the periscope for several minutes, the ship filling the entire lense at minimum enlargement at the end. Then, the boat dove away undetected.
It is doubtful whether the escorts would have been able to find the boat after an attack.
nonconformist
Miserable
I forget the name of the captain, but I know who you mean.carlosMM said:
He'd not only managed to infiltrate in to the convoy, but had closed in to the maximum proximity, and set up a firing solution.
He then dove and sailed off...officially because he was "playing" (The first instance of cat-and-mouse marining that would exemplify Cold War naval encounters?), but more likely he realised that had he sunk the boat, he'd be commiting a warcrime, and he'd be killed.
nonconformist
Miserable
Ah, the person on whom Das Boot was based, Kalen of the U-96.carlosMM said:you missed one important person, btw: Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock
I'll translate the wiki on him
Yeah, he had a pretty exemplary U-boat career.
nonconformist said:
Yeah, the first one (Ouellet) was a frigate, the second (Ingersoll) was a destroyer.
Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock
Born 11 Dezember 1911 in Bremen, died 18 April 1986 in Bremen. German submarine commander during WWII and later captain of the only german nuclear-powered ship Otto Hahn. Famous especially as 'Der Alte', the moniker used by author Lothar Günther Buchheim to describe him as Kapitänleutnant of U96 in the book 'Das Boot'.
[snip]
L-W took command of U96. With this boat, belonging to 7. U-Bootflottile (stationed in Kiel, later St. Nazaire), he undertook 8 combat tours with overal 259 days at sea. Especially successful from a military point of view were the first 4 of these, from Dezember 1940 to May 1941. During these four sorties L-W sank 18 merchantmen. The Wehrmachtbericht claims a total of 125.580 BRT.
During the seventh sortie, from 27 Oktober to 6 Dezember 1941, the boat failed to break through to the Med. An air attack heavily damaged the boat, which was forced to return to St. nazaire. After hte eighth trip, L-W was promoted to commander of the 9. U-Bootflotille in Brest, which he commanded until August 1944 until it was dismantled when the Allies approached Brest. L-W managed to provisionally repair the unfit-for-duty U 256 and install a make-shift snorkel. leaving Brest on September 4, the passed through the Bay of Biskay unchallanged as well as the British watch between the Shetlands and Faroer. U 256 reached Bergen in Norway on Oktober 213. L-W was made commander of the 11 U-Bootflottile stationed there, a position he stayed in to the end of the war.
All in all he sank 25 allied ships with over 180.000 BRT and damanged two more with ca. 16.000 BRT.
Born 11 Dezember 1911 in Bremen, died 18 April 1986 in Bremen. German submarine commander during WWII and later captain of the only german nuclear-powered ship Otto Hahn. Famous especially as 'Der Alte', the moniker used by author Lothar Günther Buchheim to describe him as Kapitänleutnant of U96 in the book 'Das Boot'.
[snip]
L-W took command of U96. With this boat, belonging to 7. U-Bootflottile (stationed in Kiel, later St. Nazaire), he undertook 8 combat tours with overal 259 days at sea. Especially successful from a military point of view were the first 4 of these, from Dezember 1940 to May 1941. During these four sorties L-W sank 18 merchantmen. The Wehrmachtbericht claims a total of 125.580 BRT.
During the seventh sortie, from 27 Oktober to 6 Dezember 1941, the boat failed to break through to the Med. An air attack heavily damaged the boat, which was forced to return to St. nazaire. After hte eighth trip, L-W was promoted to commander of the 9. U-Bootflotille in Brest, which he commanded until August 1944 until it was dismantled when the Allies approached Brest. L-W managed to provisionally repair the unfit-for-duty U 256 and install a make-shift snorkel. leaving Brest on September 4, the passed through the Bay of Biskay unchallanged as well as the British watch between the Shetlands and Faroer. U 256 reached Bergen in Norway on Oktober 213. L-W was made commander of the 11 U-Bootflottile stationed there, a position he stayed in to the end of the war.
All in all he sank 25 allied ships with over 180.000 BRT and damanged two more with ca. 16.000 BRT.
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
Perfection said:Actually, that honor goes to the HMS Victory:
The U.S.S. Constitution is the oldest commisioned warship afloat.
As far as I am concerned, if she isn't afloat, she isn't commisioned. That would be like keeping a scrap heap of wood at the bottom of the Aegean Sea, a Trireme, in commision for the Greek Navy. If you want that honor, float the female dog!
John HSOG said:
Neither your nor our ships have to be afloat to remain commisioned but thanks for destroying 241 years of naval tradition, she is fully sea worthy and no doubt could be floated if there was a need to. I wonder if they'll commision the Mary Rose when she's restored as well so you can destroy nearly 600 years of naval tradition? Anyway luckily what you think and what the record books say are two different things, never mind.
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