The new infraction system explained

[Mathilda]

Hello Civ Fanatics Members

Over the past couple of months the staff has been working to revise the infraction system. Our goal with the changes to be made to the infraction system is four fold: improve consistency by moderators; create a system that does not reward chronic rule breaking; have infraction point quantities more closely aligned with the severity of the offense; and make the system very clear and transparent to all posters.

The goal is to make the consequences from serious continuous rule breaking faster and more effective.
It will be introduced along with the new rules. The new infraction system has several noteworthy changes:

• New infractions have been added
• The points awarded for specific infractions have been changed
• Points expire after 12 months in all cases
• As points accumulate, the bans get longer
• Each double login (DL) earns 10 points

For most of you this change will not have any impact at all, but if you have been prone to not following the rules and getting infracted, it will be a whole new world. As we begin, all existing points will be expired or reduced to zero (for exceptions, see below) so you start with a clean slate (point wise, not reputation wise). Since points take a year to expire, you will live with your mistakes for a long time. Every 10 points will generate a new ban of longer length. If you continue to break rules, you will spend less and less time posting and more time at your second favorite website. The ban cycle ends with a 4 month ban. Since points take so long to expire it is likely that a person would return from a 4 month ban with a high number of still active points. Continued rule breaking will speed the process to the next 4 month ban. When a poster reaches their third 4 month ban, they are automatically permabanned instead.

As noted above, there are a few exceptions to the zero point start. For those few posters who have in the past been singled out for special treatment known as “the Road”, this category of punishment has been terminated in its entirety. Instead, you will begin with 37 points that will expire in 30 days. If you watch your behavior for a month, your point balance will drop to zero. All future points will expire in 12 months. The status of those posters already permabanned will not change.

Below is the list of the preset infraction values. They do not attempt to cover all the cases, only the most common ones. The staff will still have the option to give out custom infractions for other things that break the rules and/or are disruptive to the forums.
Zero point warnings will still be used for new posters and minor offences, to reminds posters about the rules.

Infractions (points expire after 12 months)
1 Inappropriate Language/Avoiding autocensor
1 Spam
1 Signature/Avatar Rule Violation
1 Minor support of piracy
2 Minor Flaming Other Member(s)
2 Inappropriate Content
2 Multiple Inappropriate Language
2 Minor Trolling
3 Starting a spam / troll thread
3 Ignoring moderator action or warnings
4 Flaming/insulting Other Member(s) or their families
4 Public Discussion of Mod Action (PDMA)
4 Trolling
10 Advocating violence/ threats to other posters
10 Double Login (DL)
10 Piracy
80 Spammed Advertisements
1 to 80 Custom infractions (up to staff discretion)

Ban levels:
5 points 3 days
10 points 5 days
20 points 7 days
30 points 2 weeks
40 points 1 month
50 points 2 months
60 points 4 months On the third occurrence of this a user is permbanned
80 points – adbots

We’ve had a number of discussions among staff regarding expiration lengths, infraction point values and ban thresholds.
Now we are giving you the chance to discuss the revised system.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Is there any reason for that singular five point ban? All the other ones are 10 point intervals? It seems to me the one five point ban will punish people who break the rules less frequently more so than those who break them more frequently?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

New posters, or those with less of an infraction history should typically be warned, rather than infracted, the first few times.

If they still don't 'get it', then we'll start them off on the usual route.

The overall idea is for us to waste less time and issue fewer infractions, but for the infractions to hit harder.

This will work in tandem with a more robust appeals system, which shld go live before the new infractions rework.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I'm aware, but let's compare poster A and Poster B.

Poster A shows total contempt for the rules, he doesn't give a crap, ever. He would rather not get banned, but he'll tow the line to avoid getting banned. So he accumulates 10 points and tries to spend the rest of his CFC life between 10 and 20 points.

Poster B won't try any "Ways out" and wants to follow the rules, but occassionally makes mistakes. So he gets banned with 5 mistakes within A YEAR. Someone only offending the mods even five times in a year is hardly worth banning.

And essentially, the window becomes more open as you go. You start with a 5 point window, but if you break the rules, you get a bigger window. The window should shrink as you break more rules, so the focus is on trying not to break the rules rather than being fearful of posting for fear of a mistake.

Something like BSmith suggested would work well.

 

[BSmith1068]

Something like BSmith suggested would work well.

For the record, here is what I proposed. (I didn’t see this thread at first so I put it in the rules thread a little bit ago – sorry for the duplication all over the place!)

Adding my comments from the Rules SG here for wider consumption and consolidation of feedback. These are in regard to the point scales for infractions/bans.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What about reversing the scale somewhat, so that it is harder to get the first ban, but then much easier to get subsequent ones? Something like this:

Ban levels:
15 points 7 days
30 points 2 weeks
40 points 1 month
45 points 2 months
50 points 4 months On the third occurrence of this, a user is permbanned
80 points – adbots

Since the points last a full 12 months now, the problem posters would start getting bans fairly quickly, but then would have to really start watching their behavior to prevent further bans as they come much more easily.

If I have earned 30 points in the past year, I really need to think hard about my posting.

If I have earned 5 in the last year, I may have just made a couple of dumb mistakes.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Is there a way to layer in a secondary ban scale? This second scale could start after one of the longer bans, say a 1 month ban. It wouldn’t replace the main scale, but act in conjunction with it, and last for 12 months after the lifting of the 1 month ban.

It could be as simple as every 5 points earns you an additional week or two off. You would keep earning points in the main scale as well, and those standard bans would also be in effect.

This way, it would be much more discouraging for the chronic point earners to maintain a high level of points to avoid additional bans.

A poster may come out of a 1 month ban with 41 points. With previous infractions expiring, they could keep getting infractions to stay above the 40 point threshold as others have explained already.

With this secondary scale, each additional 5 points they get to keep their level above 40 will earn them a new (short) ban.

Current Proposal:
Come out of a 1 month ban, have 41 points
8 points expire, so poster “manages” to get infracted for 2 cases of trolling/flaming (8 new points) to stay at 41 points, thus avoiding an additional ban. This can go on indefinitely where the poster keeps getting infracted as their previous points expire.

Proposed Secondary Scale:
Come out of a 1 month ban, have 41 points
8 points expire, so poster “manages” to get infracted for 2 cases of trolling/flaming (8 new points) to stay at 41 points.
These new infractions earn the poster a two week ban.
Poster comes out of 2 week ban, has 41 points (nothing expired while he was away)
4 more points are about to expire, so poster “manages” to get infracted for trolling to stay at 41 points.
This new infraction gets him yet another 2 week ban (4 points, plus 3 carried over from previous 8 points).
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

KD already indicated that the second idea may not be feasible system-wise…

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Easy solution - don't get an infraction then.

In my time as a normal poster, I had never gotten even a single infraction-level warning (well except once, a minor unlogged warning for spam ). I don't see myself as being more intelligent than the average poster, so I can't see why people can't do this.

Poster A shows total contempt for the rules, he doesn't give a crap, ever. He would rather not get banned, but he'll tow the line to avoid getting banned. So he accumulates 10 points and tries to spend the rest of his CFC life between 10 and 20 points.

The points only expire in 12 months. Far harder and much more inconvenient to game the system, than the current 30 days.

I am thinking that if this is going to be such a problem, we can always add in something to fix it, so I don't see any problems there.

Poster B won't try any "Ways out" and wants to follow the rules, but occassionally makes mistakes. So he gets banned with 5 mistakes within A YEAR. Someone only offending the mods even five times in a year is hardly worth banning.

Sorry, us mods don't infract because we get offended. Whatever you may think, based on your own infraction history.

 

[GhostWriter16]

The points only expire in 12 months. Far harder and much more inconvenient to game the system, than the current 30 days.

But it will no doubt be done by people anyway, and its still possible, even if inconvienient. And that single five point ban makes it INCREDIBLY easy to game, INCREDIBLY annoying for the people stupid smart enough not to game (Depending on how you look at it), and a five point ban with a year-long infraction lasting is ridiculous, heck a 10 point ban with a year-long infraction lasting is ridiculous. You should start at 20 with 3 days, 5 days, 7 days, whatever, and go up in intervals of 10 from there.

Sorry, us mods don't infract because we get offended. Whatever you may think, based on your own infraction history.

No, that's not what I think, I didn't mean it that way.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

What is a double login?

 

[Knight-Dragon]

You should start at 20 with 3 days, 5 days, 7 days, whatever, and go up in intervals of 10 from there.

Yeah, I really like BSmith's idea and have reposted his suggestion in the relevant thread.

Hopefully it'll be revised, along that line of thinking.

 

[GhostWriter16]

What is a double login?

Someone who makes 2 accounts. Though I can't see why you can't just ban the alt account rather than infracting it? (Or is the 10 point infraction on the main account.)

Yeah, I really like BSmith's idea and have reposted his suggestion in the relevant thread.

Hopefully it'll be revised, along that line of thinking.

OK good...

Question to the mods:

Can you define the "Advocating violence" point and what that actually means? Does supporting self-defense or the death penalty count as "Advocating violence?" Or would said violence have to be illegal to count.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

What is a double login?

An existing poster, creating a second account to post here.

Usually to cheat in some form or to bypass the rules/current ban etc.

 

[Mathilda]

Someone who makes 2 accounts. Though I can't see why you can't just ban the alt account rather than infracting it? (Or is the 10 point infraction on the main account.)

Yes, the ten points is for the main account, the double login account will be banned.

Can you define the "Advocating violence" point and what that actually means? Does supporting self-defense or the death penalty count as "Advocating violence?" Or would said violence have to be illegal to count.

You'll get the answer once we manage to define the rule.

 

[shadowplay]

12 months to expire seems a little harsh, especially if the poster has no history.

 

[GhostWriter16]

How will accidentally double posting be handled? Are you going to give an infraction that lasts 12 months to that as well?

 

[SuperJay]

Glad to see the system changing towards more accountability. No significant comments here; thanks to the mod team for the time that went into this.

 

[GenMarshall]

I'm not all that thrilled about the 12 month expiration tag on infractions .

 

[Mathilda]

Dealing with double posts has been / is being revised to be:
Consecutive posting as a reply to the thread or a single post is considered spam.
Replying to two different posts by consecutive posts is allowed.
The posts may be merged but the poster won't be infracted.
If such multiple posting seems excessive poster can be asked to curtail the habit and if the poster doesn't do so, can be infracted for "Ignoring moderator action or warnings (3 points)"

There may be some specific rules to specific treads that are stricter than this, but they'll be separately announced.

Overall, we are trying to shift the focus more on what is actually disruptive to the forums.
Accidental double posts rarely are.

 

[Mathilda]

Can you define the "Advocating violence" point and what that actually means? Does supporting self-defense or the death penalty count as "Advocating violence?" Or would said violence have to be illegal to count.

Advocating violence or death we take a grim view on and the general guideline is that it is not allowed. However, advocating death can be allowed in the context of the legal system, such as death penalty for convicted murderers.
This does not mean that advocating police brutality or hanging of someone for a non-capital offence will be allowed.
Moderator discretion will be used.

 

[Azash]

What is this? Points for 'minor support for piracy'? So you are neutering anyone who even dares express a contrary opinion or who supports piracy in some form? And what's this, two points for minor flaming?

So basically, I was aware that some people had trouble handling penalties on both sides of the argument, but these new rules are just.. You are meddling with the free debate, you are imposing poorly worded rules, and even the slightest misstep will now be punishable by the mercy of the moderators. I might not have been the most active poster lately, mostly due to lack of time, but this is certainly the ultimate nail in the coffin. If you have trouble moderating the forums, perhaps you should try to improve your own approach rather than slap new and improved strict guidelines and hope behaviour you personally dislike goes away.

Azash

 

[Mathilda]

In the current set we only have a "major" category for piracy.
We felt it wasn't always necessary to go with the sledgehammer.