The NRA Finally Responds With Its "Meaningful Contributions"

[ace99]

I would have banned the Jedi Order. Bunch of renegade vigilante brainwashing cult lunatics.

 

[warpus]

Israel arms their teachers. Guess which nation has fewer school shootings?

I am just baffled at how you could have missed that my entire post was to be taken in jest. Surely you can't be sober right now and must be going through some sort of a bender. I mentioned the option of using armed drones to patrol schools, for crying out loud.

Sarcasm! It's a thing.

 

[holy king]

when dommy proposed this i asked him whether he thinks he's living in the mad max world.

maybe he is.

 

[Antilogic]

Sounded to me like they were recommending more police. But to each his own, I guess.

They explicitly mentioned armed officers, and that means they have guns. Additionally, privately-contracted security personnel are an alternative route to providing the same service, and if this moves into the serious policy arena, that is going to be an option considered and debated.

Israel arms their teachers. Guess which nation has fewer school shootings?

How many First World Western nations a) do not arm their teachers and b) have fewer school shootings?

I'm guessing a bunch.

Hypothetically I am not opposed to hiring police officers for schools, if the community wants to pay more taxes to be able to fund a permanent position. I personally believe the effort would probably be a "waste" of money, but there is nothing wrong with trying to make the education and safety of your children the highest priority.

If a community wants to raise its property taxes (which generally are used for schools afaik) to fund it then power to them, but the problem is that schools already don't have enough funds for teachers/education and people won't pay higher taxes/can't afford to unless they are at a suburban wealthy neighborhood. And I also believe the police officer would be ineffective--maybe in some particular case of the various instances of school shootings the police officer would have been effective, but for things like Columbine or even Sandy Springs the shooters would have been perfectly capable to shoot a police officer. Not to mention there is more school shootings than mass shootings.

Volunteers are insane, as it is far far more likely that the volunteer will end up doing a crime against the children or staff of the school (may not be violence, but say sexual harassment or otherwise. There has been sexual abuse cases of security personnel at schools) than solve anything. Police officers are an official state entity though that, I assume, can or already have
1) monthly progress/evaluation reports by their bosses/police chief and peer evaluations by fellow police officers that can catch any officer on a slippery slope in mental health
2) can be made to see a shrink or have access to mental health services on a regular basis to check if their mental state is good besides just the peer/boss evaluations
3) are trained properly and, at least hypothetically, you have to be vetted to be a police officer in the first place to some degree

That all being said, a police officer can also double up as some other functions for the school. I'm 80% sure the crossing guard at one of the elementary schools I went to was a police officer (would have worked for the school in the 30 minutes before opening/after ending, and otherwise have normal police duties). Maybe having a police officer in a school at all times can cut down on drugs that occur at school. Maybe the police officer can be trained to be a sort of guidance counselor as well, and for school kids it certainly can be a good role model.

The problem is that there isn't the funds for it, funds are better spent elsewhere, and it distracts from solutions to the more real problems (mental health system, gun control, etc, as shooters can always go shoot people/children at a mall instead of a school).

NRA should have hired you to make the case, the no-questions press conference was not nearly so convincing.

However, as you note, this would not be a uniform measure, and even if a quarter of the US schools participated it would require a substantial increase in the police force. If I read you correctly, you are proposing a kind of cross-training where the officer serves a dual role as counselor and security, that's probably going to require unique training and management, possibly separate from the ordinary local police.

 

[Rashiminos]

Police officers on duty at every school is not something the Democrats are opposed to. They'd naturally be armed, according to American tradition. The NRA is merely acting in a bipartisan fashion.

 

[Goodfella]

Though I'm entirely against the NRA, this proposal is not completely absurd. A number of preventative measures should be taken and a revitalized Federal Assault Weapons ban is not a bad idea. Decreasing the availability of deadly weapons in general should be a goal of this society. But, Seung-Hui Cho used didn't use a machine gun and he killed more people than Lanza did. We can't outlaw guns altogether and we have to accept that they can be obtained one way or another. Consider the outcome of Sandy Hook had Lanza been forced to confront an armed guard. I'm not saying that the guard would have shot and killed him and the day would have been saved, but put yourself in Lanza's position: you want to kill a bunch of people. Knowing that you'll have to exchange fire with a security guard might cause you to reconsider. You'd be shot at and it's a lot harder to win a firefight than it is to shoot a bunch of unarmed children.

Now imagine the shooting when an armed guard is present. Lanza shot the school's door open. The imaginary armed guard would hear the shots, get to the door rather than the principle (who was shot dead) and Lanza would be forced to confront him. If the guard is shot dead, that would at least provide teachers with the window of opportunity to lock their doors and a locked door can make a huge difference. If the guard kills Lanza, then the problem is solved. Lanza shot the door open at 9:35 and police got to the school at 9:41. If this hypothetical confrontation between Lanza and the guard took only a minute, that would still be 16% less time Lanza had to kill children.

They have armed guards at many other public places and I've failed to comprehend why there's so much opposition to a proposal that really isn't that crazy. Again, this measure wouldn't solve the problem entirely and that guns should be more restricted than they are, but it can make a difference.

 

[JollyRoger]

fortunately they pulled a sign out and not a gun

I wonder if guns were allowed in the ballroom.

 

[MobBoss]

Well, here's the thing.

Semi-automatic and assault weapons have been around a long, long time. M1911 pistols, Thompson Sub-Machine guns, and Browning Automatic Rifles ring a bell?

But these school shootings only cropped up in the last 2 decades.

So what changed exactly? It wasnt the weapons...those have always been around.

Any thoughts?

They explicitly mentioned armed officers, and that means they have guns.

They also carry tazers, handcuffs, pepperspray, and possible a nightstick/baton. Do I hear an argument that this would mean more of these things in schools?

No?

I see cops at the movie theaters, malls, department stores, just about anywhere a good amount of people are. Why not schools?

Also, fwiw, here in Washington State, the schools my kids went to from middle school to high school always seemed to have cops at the school when I was picking up or dropping off my kids. In fact, my youngest two kids knew the Lakewood Police woman that was one of four murdered at a Forza near our house as she was often at their school as part of the DARE program.

As a parent, I certainly dont see anything wrong with a larger police presence at our schools.

 

[JollyRoger]

Conservative nutjobs bashing public schools.

 

[dutchfire]

The end of communism?
My birth?

 

[Formaldehyde]

I was thinking just the other day that we should be far more like Israel.

Imagine a country where much of the population was so fearful and paranoid of their neighbors that many of them kept automatic weapons at home with the full blessing of their government. Where many felt the need to be armed no matter where they go or what they do, despite there not being any significant terrorist activity for years. A nation that knows how to oppress and even engage in apartheid against its minorities. A country that knows it is still protected from countless UN sanctions due to its direct funding of so many politicians in a particular foreign country.

Israel should be a role model for any modern democratic country.

They particularly know the importance of teaching their children about "self-defense".

Of course, there is the occasional mass killing of Muslims and the desecration of Mosques. But that is the price they are willing to pay for their own freedom and liberty.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Israel arms their teachers. Guess which nation has fewer school shootings?

Dosnt Israel have a little thing called conscription ?
Arent all fundamentalist Israelis also exempt from that said conscription ?

 

[AlpsStranger]

As a parent, I certainly dont see anything wrong with a larger police presence at our schools.

I'd take it over a government media crackdown and a moral panic.

 

[AlpsStranger]

But these school shootings only cropped up in the last 2 decades.

So what changed exactly? It wasnt the weapons...those have always been around.

Any thoughts?

My honest, no foolies opinion?

I think that the 24 hours news has made being a mass murderer a specific kind of celebrity. We need to reexamine the "it bleeds it leads" ethos of 24 hour news.

I know that will disappoint liberals who want more gun control and conservatives that want a cultural overhaul, but that's how I see it.

 

[JollyRoger]

As a parent, I certainly dont see anything wrong with a larger police presence at our schools.

I say we start stripping away many special tax breaks we give to parents so the rest of us aren't shouldering so much of the ever increasing financial burdens of taking care of your spawn.

 

[Goodfella]

Well, here's the thing.

Semi-automatic and assault weapons have been around a long, long time. M1911 pistols, Thompson Sub-Machine guns, and Browning Automatic Rifles ring a bell?

But these school shootings only cropped up in the last 2 decades.

So what changed exactly? It wasnt the weapons...those have always been around.

Any thoughts?

This is actually very true. It's for this reason that I know an assault rifle ban alone won't solve it. Ideally, the ban would limit the number of casualties, but we should certainly recognize that a solution should involve a combination of measures...an assault weapons ban being only one of them.

(I'm pretty sure you're not in favor of banning assault weapons, but at least we agree that it's not only the weapons that are the problem.)

 

[Oruc]

I say we start stripping away many special tax breaks we give to parents so the rest of us aren't shouldering so much of the ever increasing financial burdens of taking care of your spawn.

Only if those spawn can enforce euthanasia on any one over 65 without kids

 

[JollyRoger]

Only if those spawn can enforce euthanasia on any one over 65 without kids

Nope. Euthanasia should happen once the combined age of you and your living spawn and spawn of your spawn reaches 100.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Well, here's the thing.

Semi-automatic and assault weapons have been around a long, long time. M1911 pistols, Thompson Sub-Machine guns, and Browning Automatic Rifles ring a bell?

But these school shootings only cropped up in the last 2 decades.

So what changed exactly? It wasnt the weapons...those have always been around.

Any thoughts?

Well here's the thing.

Why do you think 9-11 terrorist choose to execute such an attack on America ? Islam and Muslims have been around for a long time. What changed ? It cant be Islam that is the problem because Muslims have always been around.

And thus two invasions, security measures and ongoing war.

How about this Mobboss the world has changed into a more violent place.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I'm pretty sure the shootings are just more reported now, so the media can manipulate people into supporting gun control.

Regarding Muslims, paranoid pseudo-fascists that would rather destroy every freedom we have than to just let other countries do their thing.