1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Problematic Paramander Placeholder Plague

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Zoldin, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. Zoldin

    Zoldin Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    Playing my 2nd game of FFH as the Luchuirp, I finally finished conquering the wilds of my continent (Swarms of bears were slaughtered, maybe about 6 or 7 dens and at least 20 bears) when I upgraded my super awesome looking Soldiers of Kilmorph to the... not so awesome looking Paramanders.

    So in short I ask: Anyone else think the Paramanders need a little work? Both stat wise and art work wise?

    The Soldiers of Kilmorph are great looking. They're also solid units early game, and they can help you get that awesome wonder finished a few turns sooner.

    The Paladins are also a great national unit (Even better if it's a hero!), a few level 3 or 4 paladins are a match for pretty much any demon and they look way impressive.

    But the Paramander are just aren't as awesome. 7 strength isn't all that bad and I guess they're okay against demons, too bad the AC counter is at 14 and hasn't moved in like 20 turns.

    I'm going to be kinda emo if I have to play the rest of the game with shirtless, copper cap, short-sword wielding greeks. Does anyone have a nice flavor unit to replace the placeholder graphic? Also are there any other units like this? Ones that just look silly? :D
     
  2. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    5,317
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Paramanders are statistically broken.

    They're actually inferior to SoK

    I modded them a little, reducing their strength to 6, but allowing them to use metal weapons.

    visually, they also suck, yes. They use a placeholder model that's been floating around forever. I remember seeing it in the TR mod too.


    Also, Soldiers of Kilmorph are awesome looking. Actually, I'm inclined to say TOO awesome. They look very advanced for the tech level that you can get them, with their shiny platemail and all, before iron working(and possibly even bronze) is even invented.

    I think that same model is used for a high tier dwarven unit though. Berserker or champion or somesuch.
     
  3. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,139
    It's the berserker. And it's exactly the same, IIRC; there is no visual difference between a SoK and a dwarvern Berserker. Which means any Berserker with Dwarvern Promotion, including those SoKs you upgraded and can't seem to find now...
     
  4. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,922
    SoK with Iron is strength 6, vulnerable to lightning and units with mithril weapons get a bonus against them. Also Rust can reduce them to strength 4. Paramander is strength 7, without vulnerability to lightning, no bonus against them from mithril weapons, are not affected by Rust, and get Medic I. Seems like an improvement to me, although how much of an improvement it is will depend on who your foes are - the AI doesn't seem to use Maelstrom or Rust so those aspects would come up more against another human.

    Yes, SoK with mithril are strength 8, but if you have mithril then you (probably) also have Champions who are strength 10 and so are probably not using SoK or Paramanders...
     
  5. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,944
    Location:
    in ur empire, takin ur cities
    SoK with Mithril are cheaper, can rush production, and you probabaly have some lying about.
     
  6. Zoldin

    Zoldin Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6
    I've got like one SoK left I think and no Champions, at least none that I know if (kinda went crazy on the tech tree, rushed GotN).

    If anyone has a better unit art that'd be great. (I'll have to find out how to mod, I'm not good with civ4 for some reason. I did plenty of modding for civ3.)

    Maybe there's a way to turn them into "combat medic" (Paramedic!) units, and make SoK upgrade into something else. (maybe Champions?)

    And you're right about the SoK looking too awesome. My brother is a skilled 3D art modeler, maybe I'll have him make a chain mail version, and then "mail SoK" could upgrade into "Plate SoK" which would be used as a standard rank and file unit for the Luchuirp in late game. Maybe even give them the guardsmen upgrade?

    That way the Paramander could still be useful. You'd have standard "Plate SoK" as a meatshield, champions as an elite heavy support, and Paramanders keeping them all alive.

    IIRC paladins have med II or med III anyway, so why not give Paramanders Med III also (Or med II) and lower the strength?

    I guess Luchuirp are suppose to make better use of the golems but for me they're too slow and too weak to be used effectively. They also don't upgrade and that's a big one for me. :X

    Alternatively I could just turn off the upgrading from SoK to Para (If anyone can tell me how to do this, it'd be lovely. I'm guessing it's deleting a line from the XML file)

    Sorry about the long post, I just can't help myself. :3
     
  7. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,944
    Location:
    in ur empire, takin ur cities
    If you want to be dwarves without using(even abusing!) the golem troops, you need to play Khazad. Golems are kinda the Luchirip's whole deal.
     
  8. Emptiness

    Emptiness []

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,922
    Paladins only get Medic I.
     
  9. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,229
    Location:
    Kael's head
    They should at least make Priests of Kilmorph upgrade to Paramanders, so they can get the priest spells.

    Soldiers of Kilmorph should get <bNeverObsolete>1</bNeverObsolete>
     
  10. seZereth

    seZereth FfH´s art monk(ey)

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,900
    Location:
    Bayreuth
    thats funny.
    I almost forgot about that unit. I wanted to change it for ages :D

    lets see. I put it on my to do list ;)
     
  11. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,002
    If you want a strong, standard melee line to compliment the Luchuirp's golems, go OO instead of RoK.
     
  12. Arathlan

    Arathlan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Australia
    SoK rush build. If you're not playing offensively (e.g. turtling with Luchuirp), the switch from SoK to Paramander is a pain - there seems to be a threshold of SoK numbers where the game disables them in favour of Paramanders - useful if Hyborem pops up in full force and you need some demon slayers - and HAVEN'T prepared your stonewardens, but otherwise not much use...
     
  13. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,306
    Location:
    TThe Dreaming
    Paradoxically, perusing people's proposed plans para Paramanders pleases Perpentach!
     
  14. Brugarin

    Brugarin Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    151
    Maybe they're supposed to help you make up your mind about changing religion when you get to Fanaticism while playing RoK...
     
  15. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    16,229
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Soldiers of Kilmorph and Radiant Guards both really need to get <bNeverObsolete>1
     
  16. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,362
    Location:
    Universe
    Agreed, and has been pointed out many times, from many people. Which brings the question...
    Why it has not been done yet? :confused:
     
  17. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    919
    Location:
    Shoreline, WA
    Moroi should join that list. They make wonderful fodder.

    So...what's so good about SoK? They seem to be a throwaway religious unit to me, easily replaced with Axmen. Obviously, I'm missing something here. I can certainly see why you'd want them instead of paramanders, what with the metal promotions, but what makes them better then the standard metal line?
    Just curious.
     
  18. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    642
    They can be used to rush production in cities, for one :p
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Mostly the fact that they can be sacrificed for production, allowing you to rapidly bring a new city up to par.
     
  20. SwordofStriker

    SwordofStriker Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    Texas
    Thanks sez. The paramanders definitely need some TLC and a nice makeover.
     

Share This Page