The Streak is Ended!

Commodore

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The year-and-a-half long streak of me disagreeing with Barack Obama has finally ended.

In a major speech at the West Point military academy, Obama denied US power had ebbed under his watch, after he withdrew troops from Iraq and as he does the same in Afghanistan.

"To say that we have an interest in pursuing peace and freedom beyond our borders is not to say that every problem has a military solution," Obama said.

"Since World War II, some of our most costly mistakes came not from our restraint, but from our willingness to rush into military adventures -- without thinking through the consequences," Obama said, in an apparent reference to the Iraq war, which he has branded a disaster

I completely agree with Obama's sentiments on this matter. Just because we are not trying to bomb every country that looks at us funny anymore, does not mean we have weakened. I'm glad Obama actually had the courage to speak against the military adventurists in our society who have been pushing for us to "flex our military muscle" to deal with Russia and China.

Link to Article
 
Sounds a bit more like the old Obama before the drones and NSA stuff. Wish we had more of that in practice.
 
Well said Obama! :choke: :cough: :gurgle:
 
I think this is just political talk, as usual. In my view (anyway) US military/political/threatfactor influence on the planet has lessened (which is good for the planet and the normal US citizen) but this was not a result of benevolent policy. It either was the outcome of US societal weakening (which personally i don't view as that much related, cause a weakened power can be also prone to export its problems through war), or some other plan involving the same, and i don't trust Obama to be genuine in the role of peace-loving president at all.
 
I think this is just political talk, as usual. In my view (anyway) US military/political/threatfactor influence on the planet has lessened (which is good for the planet and the normal US citizen) but this was not a result of benevolent policy. It either was the outcome of US societal weakening (which personally i don't view as that much related, cause a weakened power can be also prone to export its problems through war), or some other plan involving the same, and i don't trust Obama to be genuine in the role of peace-loving president at all.

I think what needs to be determined is: Has the power of the US really weakened? Is the US just as powerful as it always has been and other powers are just "catching up"? Or does it just seem like the US is weakening because we are choosing not to use our hard power as much as we used to?

Even if what Obama is saying is nothing more than political hooey, I'd rather he spout this kind of political hooey, than some sabre-rattling nonsense past US presidents have blurted out.
 
Okey dokey.

http://www.euronews.com/2014/05/28/obama-announces-9800-us-troops-to-remain-in-afghanistan-beyond-2014/

And what's going to happen to the airbases in Afghanistan?

Oh, and by the way:

So our combat mission here will come to an end. But our obligations to you and your families have only just begun. The al Qaeda leadership may be on the ropes, but in other regions of the world al Qaeda affiliates are evolving and pose a serious threat. We’re going to have to stay strong and we're going to have to stay vigilant. And fortunately, we’ve got the best-led, best-trained, best-equipped military in human history. (Applause.) And as Commander-in Chief, I’m going to keep it that way. (Applause.)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/05/25/remarks-president-troops-bagram-air-base-afghanistan

Still, politicians and their weaselly ways, eh?
 
Yeah this is the kind of stuff he was saying back in '08 when I loved him, good to hear it again even if it is tarnished by drones/NSA stuff.



I think what needs to be determined is: Has the power of the US really weakened? Is the US just as powerful as it always has been and other powers are just "catching up"? Or does it just seem like the US is weakening because we are choosing not to use our hard power as much as we used to?

It's definitely a case of other powers catching up, I think we are at our relative weakest since the collapse of the Soviet Union. But any rumor of our demise is greatly exaggerated. Finally I'de say between Libya and the continued drone bombings we are using plenty of hard power, just not as much as Bush went crazy with.
 
The year-and-a-half long streak of me disagreeing with Barack Obama has finally ended.

Since you're so precise in your dating, would you care to share the thing he said a year and a half ago with which you also agreed? Just a point of curiosity.

Even if what Obama is saying is nothing more than political hooey, I'd rather he spout this kind of political hooey, than some sabre-rattling nonsense past US presidents have blurted out.

Yes, I agree. The kind of hooey matters. America has to start working out a new kind of conceptualization of the relation between our military power and world affairs. If this hooey is enough to start that conversation, it will be enough for me.

We have enough power to be "the world's policeman" in any country that might benefit from such policing (or in which we might benefit from such policing) but not in all countries that might. Suspending for a moment the question of whether we should, we can't do anything in Ukraine precisely because we've exhausted ourselves in Iraq and Afganistan lately.

The post-Cold-war world is multilateral. Iraq was as much a desperate effort to continue to imagine it as bilateral as it was anything else. The story of foreign affairs in Obama's presidency has been the story of too dang many fires to stamp out, i.e. the multilateral world asserting itself as collectively beyond the military management of the U.S. Time we started working to devise a new standard.

Or reassert an old one. All we would really need is the protections the Constitution already establishes. Congress should develop some backbone, and insist on really voting on whether to fund a particular war. Not the "Prez sent in troops on his authority as commander in chief, so I guess we have to write a blank check" thinking that has prevailed of late. The American people will happily vote to fund any war where America's interests are genuinely threatened.

<steps off soapbox>
 
I think what needs to be determined is: Has the power of the US really weakened? Is the US just as powerful as it always has been and other powers are just "catching up"?
That depends on your definition of power. Imnho power is the ability to make others do what you want them to do even if they have other preferences, and as such it is always relative. Saying you're as powerful as ever and others are just catching up doesn't really make sense. If others are catching up you are getting relatively weaker. Power also relies on perception and the trust and goodwill of your allies. Compared to the late nineties when Clinton was able to talk Germany into a war, US influence has significantly declined during this century.

Or does it just seem like the US is weakening because we are choosing not to use our hard power as much as we used to?.
As I said, power also relies on perception. Iraq and Afghanistan have shown the limits of hard power as a tool to shape the world according to your preferences. You still have the strongest military in the world, but it is simply not capable of spreading peace and democracy and enforcing american values in far off regions. Whether you've lost power because the world now underestimates you or has stopped overestimating you is of no significance. The loss is real.
 
Translation: The US will let the PRC roll on Taiwan just like it let Russia roll on Crimea.

Peace with honor.
 
Translation: The US will let the PRC roll on Taiwan just like it let Russia roll on Crimea.

Peace with honor.
Yeah. It was pretty sneaky the way that Russia secretly infiltrated the Crimea by smuggling in hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children. Russian citizens masquerading as Ukrainians who then eventually voted to secede after being discriminated against for decades, without anybody even having a clue what was actually occurring.

So you think the same thing is now happening in Taiwan?

How much tin foil does this Cold War conspiracy theory need?
 
So you think the same thing is now happening in Taiwan?

The people of Taiwan are much louder in their opposition to integration by their far larger, far more corrupt, far less regulated neighbor. I'm not precisely convinced that their far larger neighbor gives much of two shats what the people of Taiwan are concerned about though.
 
I'm sure you can provide immigration statistics which show there has been an incredibly large influx of Russian citizens into Crimea since the end of the Cold War to support this conspiracy theory.

Don't get me wrong. The US and the rest of the world should indeed assure that China doesn't invade and occupy Taiwan. But I seriously doubt it is even a matter of actual concern, as so many still fighting the Cold War would claim.
 
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