The Sword of Islam: RFC Medieval Middle East

[Barak]

As Antioch, why would Damascus and Homs want to join the Ayyubid Sultaniate of Egypt? Neither city had any islamic religion.

 

[embryodead]

The simple answer is, because Syria is in Ayyubid core area. I mean, you could remove Islam from Egypt as well and expect Ayyubids and Mamluks to never spawn.

 

[Barak]

Ok, just was very surprised.

 

[thwump]

Tried Oman again. This time I had 69k gold in 1600 but apparently that wasn't enough because I got marked NO for wealthiest. Also the portuguese UHV requires them to have no cities at all? It said ports so I thought it meant coastal cities, but aksum counted against me.

 

[embryodead]

Tried Oman again. This time I had 69k gold in 1600 but apparently that wasn't enough because I got marked NO for wealthiest. Also the portuguese UHV requires them to have no cities at all? It said ports so I thought it meant coastal cities, but aksum counted against me.

The gold UHV works now, but something is wrong with AI gold apparently - I just checked it and in my game, Antioch has 6,000 gp and Jerusalem has 59,000 gp I'll have to find out what's going on there... In other words, it's very possible that someone has beaten you, but I can't believe the AI got that gold legally.

Third UHV indeed checks for any city in coastal regions, instead of coastal cities only - will be fixed.

Going back to previous issues - I just finished playing Chauhans/Ajmer, didn't have stability issues, although this is with the latest version so it's a bit more friendly. Also I only conquered Malwa. Gujarat asked for protection, Sindh and Ghaznavids I destroyed razing their cites. Ghorids I let live so they don't respawn as Delhi - which is bothering me, since it works but makes no sense whatsoever. Possibly Delhi shouldn't respawn if Chuahan is human-controlled and have defeated Ghorids.

Thanks for your reports and patience!

 

[MessageMan]

I was thinking of including Influence Driven War one day, still on the fence about it. That would allow shaping your borders manually, so to speak.

What is that?

 

[AOS9001]

What is that?

I think it's when the outcomes of battles shape borders. For example, let's say the Kingdom of Jerusalem gets into a fight with the Fatimids. Though KoJ never takes a city, they do win many battles, and their culture advances further into Fatimids territory than it normally would be.

At least, that's what I think he's talking about. Also, back to the subject of Greek Fire, I played another game of Byzantium to about the Rum-spawn, and the quest still didn't happen. The Iconoclasts never did anything either. Would someone mind checking if these things happen to them too?

 

[embryodead]

Well, this is extremely annoying. I haven't changed them except for the outcome since you and others got them, and I saw AI trigger them so I'd think it's fine - esp. with weight of 1000. Rare events have weights of 50, the more common have 200, 300 etc. Iconoclasm & Greek Fire have 1000, now I raised it to 5000 to test it, and still in 300 years all I got was the Greed quest. I should have set it to over 9000 I guess Also in 0.2.2 you can't recruit Varangians :\

EDIT: Ok that wasn't full 300 years, got the Greek Fire in 954 and Iconoclasm in 972. Still don't like how unreliable it is.

 

[AOS9001]

Well, this is extremely annoying. I haven't changed them except for the outcome since you and others got them, and I saw AI trigger them so I'd think it's fine - esp. with weight of 1000. Rare events have weights of 50, the more common have 200, 300 etc. Iconoclasm & Greek Fire have 1000, now I raised it to 5000 to test it, and still in 300 years all I got was the Greed quest. I should have set it to over 9000 I guess

Yea, over 9000 sounds right. You might want to even go over 18000. But maybe the trigger itself has broken somehow?

 

[embryodead]

It's not (I edited my post). It's just, well, awfully random.

 

[AOS9001]

It's not (I edited my post). It's just, well, awfully random.

Ah, I see. Well, I think it's agreeable that it should be a little less random.

On an unrelated note, KoJ destabilizes after 1290 or so, because that's when it went down. Does the same happen to Antioch after the year it fell in the real world?

 

[embryodead]

On an unrelated note, KoJ destabilizes after 1290 or so, because that's when it went down. Does the same happen to Antioch after the year it fell in the real world?

There is historical destabilizaiton for most civs, but it's slow and gradual, so while Antioch is more likely to collapse after 1270, you might as well see it alive in 1500, just not as likely.

 

[AOS9001]

There is historical destabilizaiton for most civs, but it's slow and gradual, so while Antioch is more likely to collapse after 1270, you might as well see it alive in 1500, just not as likely.

Got it. That explains why my stability as Byzantium started dropping like the Stock Market in 1929 in the 1300s.

 

[embryodead]

Got it. That explains why my stability as Byzantium started dropping like the Stock Market in 1929 in the 1300s.

That's not it, destabilization for Byzantium starts in 1453.

 

[AOS9001]

That's not it, destabilization for Byzantium starts in 1453.

Oh really? Well, then, I must be doing something wrong. Maybe it was letting my cities flip to the Ottomans and taking them back before they could garrison them.

 

[The Turk]

Ok! So I started this critique before the whole Antioch change came into being in v2.0, so if some of the suggestions are dated, then you can just skip them (as in, if they have already been changed). But I have tried to not do that, so hopefully that will not happen. I primarily played as the Timurds, and I realized why you wanted me to test them, as I found a few problems. Once again, I'm being a bit lazy, so I won't group them in different sections, but I'll try to be as organized as I can

And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE include influence driven war!! Plus, have it like in RoM, where if two armies fight on a tile, then the production of the tile is decreased, for ex. it loses food/production/commerce in that tile, that would be great, especially for such a historical mod like this. Not to mention, just think about the significance that battles like Manzikert or the battle of Hattin, had in history, I think Influence Driven war, would help recreate that.

And once again, ALL the games I played in this critique are played at the normal settings, (normal speed and the ""Middle"" difficulty setting). Once again, I'll put it in a spoiler, so if you don't want to read it, you can skip over it......

Spoiler :

Timurds:
1. Started off shaky, I was losing quite a bit of stability, and this only got worse, their starting situation was quite difficult to maintain, as they had barbs coming at them almost at once, not to mention my stability continued to decrease. I also began to lose a lot of money very quickly, I would recommend, giving them more money, and more stability

2. The Timurds should start off wth 2 or 3 (probably 2 is fine) trebuchets, I think that would help them a lot as well, because that was the one biggest stumbling blocks. Not to mention, several other civs should start off with Cannons/ trebuchets as well (Mughals for instance need some artillery)

3. No offense, but the Timurd UU, the Mongol Horse Archer, is poorly named, I think its name could be a lot more specific to the Timurds, rather than having something so general like that, not to mention it links them too much to the Mongols. They should instead be called, Timurd Horse Archer or by something, perhaps more original

4. The Timurd UU, the Mongol Horse Archer, is weaker then Heavy Horse Archers, which is a HUGE disadvantage to them, PLEASE give them one more strength, OR instead of giving them 10% strength, give them 60% strength, or something like that, but basically, please make them stronger

Abbasids:
1. What are these "peasant spearmen" which spawn near Damascus, and in other areas? Why are peasants attacking me?

2. When I controlled Jerusalem, I kept having Javilenmen, (with no name, regarding where they came from), spawn a few tiles underneath Jerusalem, why's that?

3. In the 900's, I came under attack by Daylami Axeman (or whatever their called), I'm fine with them, but their a bit too powerful, can't you just put less of them?

Antioch:
OK! So you implemented Antioch, and in the games I've played they are good, in the historical sense. BUT, I am disappointed how you undercut me, on the use of the UP and UB, so hopefully I can make convince you here again.
UP: Should be called, "Norman Zeal" OR "Norman Fervor", it sounds so much better. My problem with this, is that it does the exact same thing as the KoJ UP, and the whole experience thing is lame. I think instead that they should get reinforcements (like they already get), but instead of the experience thing, all their units start off with City Raider Promotion.

UB: Norman Chapel, I like the name, thats good, but what it does, disturbs me. First off it should replace a Catholic Church (or else its redundant). The Norman Chapel SHOULD give experience to all Heavy Cavalry and heavy infantry , but it should also spread Catholicism with it, so rather than requiring Catholicism, it spreads it especially considering that the Catholics were a tiny minority, so whenever they capture a city, they should be able to erect a Chapel from their soldiers, which gives them extra experience, I think that would be a much better UB

Also why is Lower Egypt a border province for Antioch?? Perhaps this could be for KoJ, although I would disagree with it, by not chance, should the PoA (Principality of Antioch), have the intention of invading Egypt

In general, for both Principality of Antioch and KoJ, they should both not start off with extra missionaries (just one), the Crusaders didn't come to proselytize their religion, they were not missionaries, and Catholicism, remained a very small minority, throughout their stay in the Holy Land, they were surrounded by Muslims, Jews and Orthodox Christians. In fact, the Levant (the Holy Land), was strongly Orthodox Christian, it did not become majority Muslim until later. The only exception being Tyre (Sur) and Tripoli, where their was the Maronite Christian sect.
PS. An idea for a mercenary would be, Maronite Archers, and would only be available if you controlled Tyre or Tripoli, basically Palestine in this game



Fatimids:
1. When I first met Yemen, they were happy with me, and I got open borders. But a few turns later, they declared war on me, even though we were both Shi'ite and had similar civics. There was no reason for the war, except that this war spoils are relationship, are they programmed to do that?

2. Why did the Ayyubids and Mamluks never spawn?? I'm really dumbfounded, about how the Ayybudis never tried to conquer my territory. This is especially strange since, it is stated in the list of changes for v2.0 that the Ayyubids and Mamluks will declare war on the previous owner of Egypt. But in my game they never came, period.

General Comments:
1. When the Ottomans captured Constantinople, it wasn't renamed Istanbul (I take special offense to this one )

2. The Crusaders, are now capturing parts of Egypt quite frequently now, I believe that AI Egypt (Fatimids/Ayyubids/Mamluks) are all too weak, to counter the crusaders

3. In one game, all the cities in the Cacaus mountains were destroyed, except for Poti. PLEASE stop barbs from destroying cities, at least have take control of the city, rather then razing it (see Suggestion #1)

4. I still don't meet all the civs that I come into contact with, this should happen instantly when you start a game, with the civs that are close to you, and it should happen whenever you meet a new civ. Also I would strongly suggest, letting connection with civ, go away after a while, if you are the Byzantines, you shouldn't have permanent contact with Gujurat or the Ghorids.

5. Why did you stop Catholics from slaughtering Orthodox Christians?? Hundreds of Eastern Christians, were slaughtered by the Crusaders. When Jerusalem was first captured in 1099, the Catholic crusaders, killed Muslims, Jews and Christians. I was strongly suggest that you make it so that the Catholics can remove Orthodox Christianity, but that Orthodox Christians, cannot remove Catholicism when they slaughter a city

6.Please remove Catholicism from Alexandria, I personally cannot remember there being any Catholics in Egypt

7. There should not be floodplains in the middle of the desert, outside of Mesopotamia. If you follow the Euphrates river out of the Persian Gulf, you'll notice that it runs through some desert, where it still has floodplains, could you please remove it. If my description is not clear enough, I can supply you with a screenshot

8. What are the city ruins, I constantly see on plot (30,44) outside of the Abbasid Borders?? I always see it.

9. Can you remove the roads, which run through the desert near to the left of Mesopotamia, they are making people cut through it, rather then going around the desert as they should on route to the Levant. Once again, if its not clear, I can provide a screenshot

10. After building the House of Wisdom, as the Abbasids, the picture popped up, but when I clicked on the picture, the benefits of the wonder didn't pop up, like it usually does. This is just a minor bug though.

11. When an Arab civ is in control of Luxor, it should be called al-Uqsur, but when the Makurians capture it, I guess its ok to let it be called Luxor.

12. Tripoli should be present from the beginning of the game, on plot (20, 46) with Catholicism (Maronites), Orthodox Christianity and Sunni Islam. Otherwise, there is just that awkward spot their.

13. PLEASE change the KoJ second UHV! Its SOOO ahistorical, in the sense, that it forces you to invade ahistorical places. Although I understand that the crusaders took away knowledge of different spices and things, the way the objective is setup, makes the player have to do some pretty stupid things. Can't you change it to something better?

14. The Ghorid LH is static, in the sense that its animation is frozen, it doesn't move.

15. Why is their a "wave" of religious persecution right before Antioch and KoJ arrive? I understand, that you did this to remove the defensive bonus of these cities, but I think you can come up with a better excuse then that. Not to mention, why do they even NEED to have their fortifications thrown off? The crusaders start off with a large enough army, PLUS trebuchets, so why do they need help? I have a feeling that they are powerful enough

16. Could you please explain where you got the notion, that there were no horses or iron in Egypt? Its just that if the Ancient Egyptians had horses (chariots), why don't they have them anymore? It's just that Egypt has become really weak because of its lack of iron and horse. I'm fine with them having no iron resource (or else they may become TOO powerful), but if your not going to add iron, then could you at least put more mercenaries to be added to the mercenary pool? Because currently, I have played a few turns where their were not mercenaries, is their supposed to be a mercenary limit, (as in you cannot hire more than X amount of mercenaries?)

17. What's the "Last Plague of Constantinople"?? I remember the Plague of Justinian, (which was before the start of this mod), and the Bubonic plague. But I can't find any mention of this plague at all. I know the Plague of Justinian, did reappear, from time to time, but by 750AD, I hardly think it was much of a threat anymore. Also whats the idea behind the Bubonic plague follow up? Was there really another follow up to the bubonic plague?

18. Why do ghulams, not require iron? I mean they are very heavily defended, so I'm a bit confused why they don't require the resource?

19. Shouldn't Constantinople, be on a separate region? I mean Paris is on "Ile de France", so isn't their a Byzantine name for the region surrounding Constantinople?

20. Why did the bubonic plague hit India? Historically, I'm pretty sure, that the bubonic plague barely affected the Indian sub-continent, and it was only regions with contact with the Mongols that became affected with the bubonic plague (originally in the Middle East, later it took a life of its own in Europe). Also rather than from spreading from China, like it did historically, or Kashgar, which I guess would be the most appropriate start of this plague, in my game, the plague started in Tripoli, it was the Zengids, who were one of the first empires in the Western Middle East to contract the disease. I have a feeling that the plague is going to need a bit of tweaking, if you ask me.

21. I have to strongly urge you to rethink the abilities of the Red Fort. Having the ability of giving a few free specialists, is great, but I think it could be applied better for another wonder, (House of Wisdom perhaps?), I would make the Red Fort give a good defensive bonus, due to the fact that its a Red "Fort". So you could give the player, extra 25% defense and it should give a lot of culture, since the Red Fort, was also a residence of the Mughal Royal Family

Suggestions:
1. I would recommend that when barbarians capture a city, they should pillage the city, destroying some buildings, and lowering the population, and bring a lot of unhappy faces for a few turns, saying "You didn't stop the barbarians from sacking us!", BUT, the difference, is that the city remains in your control, while the barbarian will just keep on moving on, to pillage another city/tile, so then you would have to go and reestablish order in the city, I think THAT would be GREAT if you could implement it

2. You should name the plagues, now that you have added more. For example, "A great sickness, from across the himalayas, as come, it is called the Black Death", or something like that, the example I gave was kind of lame, but I'm sure you could come up with a better one. But make it like an event, if you understand

3. If you could name more of the lakes, like you did for the Arel Sea that would be cool

4. Have you though about my Silk Road/Sub-Saharan Africa traderoutes idea? I mentioned it in my first critique, and it would be awesome if you could implement it! Just ask if you want me to help you think about it.

5. The Seljuk's should start at war with the Abbasids, so that they take over Baghdad once in a blue-moon, this would especially be nice, since currently the Abbasids live FOREVER

6. If Jerusalem is recaptured by a Muslim civ, then a few turns later, Richard the Lionheart, with an army, should spawn in Acre, as the new capital. I love how you've done the crusader civ's entrance, but if you could include the Venetian Crusade, to sack Constantinople, Richard the Lionheart, and Saladin, I think that would be really awesome!

 

[esvath]

Question : how to play this mod? I already downloaded the main mod+its patch last night, installed and run until the main menu, When I tried to play the scenario, I got CtD. Is there something I should do?

Great mod, btw

 

[embryodead]

Question : how to play this mod? I already downloaded the main mod+its patch last night, installed and run until the main menu, When I tried to play the scenario, I got CtD. Is there something I should do?

Great mod, btw

The only case of CTD on main menu someone has reported was when he was using non-English language setting, so maybe it's that? Make sure your language is set to English and BTS is patched to 3.19. Did that help?

EDIT: and to clarify, you were doing it right - PLAY SCENARIO -> Middle East 750 CE

 

[esvath]

My Civ is in English and patched already to 3.19. I usually play FfH and its children modmods okay...

Edit : I can play when using Play Now! I got CtD when loading the scenario. Is it possible that my scenario somehow corrupt?

 

[embryodead]

My Civ is in English and patched already to 3.19. I usually play FfH and its children modmods okay...

Edit : I can play when using Play Now! I got CtD when loading the scenario. Is it possible that my scenario somehow corrupt?

This is weird because Play Now! should be grayed out/disabled - you can't play this mod on random maps. If it's not then your game isn't even reading the mod's INI file.

Can you please go to your Civilization 4/Beyond the Sword/Mods/The Sword of Islam folder and see if the The Sword of Islam.ini is there?

Also, how are you launching the mod? i.e. are you using the provided desktop/menu icon launcher or another method?

Sorry that I have no better ideas but we've never had this issue here.