The Sword of Osman

[Cam_H]

Cam, if you could get an updated version of the PPP, we all, and I for sure, will be most appreciative! I am learning a lot from you

Like how to mess up a Theology slingshot?!

I'm pleased that you feel that you're learning.

Revised PPP (as I understand it):

Edirne: The sole purpose of this city from now until 600AD-ish is to run those Priests and pop Great Prophets. Its build should continue to get that Jewish Temple up, and then run the first Priest asap. When the Buddhist Missionary (in a perfect world) spreads Buddhism into Edirne, we have to chop out that Buddhist Temple as best we can with the three available Forests (and then build it 'au naturale' from there) and run that second Priest asap. The north-north-west riverside Grassland in the BFC also to get farmed, but this city will be running a food deficit to feed the second Priest. If we can all 'micro' the builds so that we put as much food into the food box as possible while not slowing down the Temple builds, that'd work in our favour.

Ankara: Work the riverside Grassland to get the population up to 2, then whip out the Missionary. Send to Edirne. Possibly run a second Missionary build in case the first fails. Consider a Library for the culture.

Karakorum: Worker > Monument > open to ideas (?)

Beshbalik: Open to ideas ... maybe Forge? Maybe units in light of Barracks?

Istanbul: Library. Be careful about running Scientists not to interfere with Edirne Priests > Great Prophets. When Tufan comes out of revolt, we'll get its Marble. Therefore consider The Parthenon in Istanbul (around 20 turns) to assist with the final turns of the Great Prophet popping. Much less preferably in my view, but a Settler for the jungle-Gems to the east of Istanbul might be a consideration. Try where possible to work Cottages in addition to the Ivory, despite the pressure of the Library and Parthenon builds.

War: Take Tufan ... consider peace afterwards ... alternately re-group and head west for more warfare. Refer FiveRings's comment in post #140.

Technology: Complete Theology and Monarchy. If multiple trades for Metal Casting are available (Alphabet and Monarchy) consider taking them (Mathematics and Iron Working would be good too). We need to back-fill; Animal Husbandry, Fishing, and Sailing at some point, but I would self-research these rather than trade these cheap technologies in light of 'We fear that you are becoming too advanced' issues. Once we have our Monarchy/Theology issue under control, and spend a few turns back-filling, then try to trade as effectively as possible to get Mathematics and Construction. We may need to research Machinery and Engineering ourselves, and this is where growing Istanbul's cottages where possible can help.

Workers: Build that road to connect Karakorum/Beshbalik with the rest of the empire. Help with chopping out planned Buddhist Temple in Edirne, and farm its riverside Grassland. The riverside Grassland tile immediately above Istanbul can be farmed at some point, with the intent of running irrigation to the Corn on the acquisition of Civil Service. If we do acquire Iron Working, then clearing away riverside jungle for farms in Edirne's BFC would be a priority to help feed the Priests.

 

[FiveRings]

Like how to mess up a Theology slingshot?!

I don't think you are up to blame on this. I'd rather take at least half of this burden on myself: say a-la-Spinoza: not to think is no excuse.

Revised PPP (as I understand it):

Edirne: The sole purpose of this city from now until 600AD-ish is to run those Priests and pop Great Prophets. Its build should continue to get that Jewish Temple up, and then run the first Priest asap. When the Buddhist Missionary (in a perfect world) spreads Buddhism into Edirne, we have to chop out that Buddhist Temple as best we can with the three available Forests (and then build it 'au naturale' from there) and run that second Priest asap. The north-north-west riverside Grassland in the BFC also to get farmed, but this city will be running a food deficit to feed the second Priest.

I like that VERY much!

Ankara: Work the riverside Grassland to get the population up to 2, then whip out the Missionary. Send to Edirne. Possibly run a second Missionary build in case the first fails. Consider a Library for the culture.

I guess this might work better than forest-chopping IF we get the whip in hand on turn 4 from where we are now. I am not sure this will happen: might run a simulation and report later, if you don't bet ALL your money that we can whip the missionary on turn 4. This will ensure early chopping of the forests around Ed The alternative is to chop one more forest: that should do it, but I'll check this once again, too.

Karakorum: Worker > Monument > open to ideas Beshbalik: Open to ideas ... maybe Forge? Maybe units in light of Barracks?

Istanbul: Library. Be careful about running Scientists not to interfere with Edirne Priests > Great Prophets. When Tufan comes out of revolt, we'll get its Marble. Therefore consider The Parthenon in Istanbul (around 20 turns) to assist with the final turns of the Great Prophet popping. Much less preferably in my view, but a Settler for the jungle-Gems to the east of Istanbul might be a consideration. Try where possible to work Cottages in addition to the Ivory, despite the pressure of the Library and Parthenon builds.

War: Take Tufan ... consider peace afterwards ... alternately re-group and head west for more warfare. Refer FiveRings's comment in post #140.

Technology: Complete Theology and Monarchy. If a multiple trade for Metal Casting is available (Alphabet and Monarchy) consider taking it (Mathematics and Iron Working would be good too). We need to back-fill; Animal Husbandry, Fishing, and Sailing at some point, but I would self-research these rather than trade these cheap technologies in light of 'We fear that you are becoming too advanced' issues. Once we have our Monarchy/Theology issue under control, and spend a few turns back-filling, then try to trade as effectively as possible to get Mathematics and Construction. We may need to research Machinery and Engineering ourselves.

Workers: Build that road to connect Karakorum/Beshbalik with the rest of the empire. Help with chopping out planned Buddhist Temple in Edirne, and farm its riverside Grassland.

I need to go buy some food now, so I'll get to the rest later on...if something doesn't hit me meanwhile

 

[Cam_H]

Apologies - I edited my post I think while you were responding.

That whipped Missionary should be out in three turns (two turns to grow, plus the whipped turn).

Don't go buying too much liquor while you're out ... I don't want the entire roster to be caught in a vicious intoxicated <> hung-over cycle!

 

[FiveRings]

You were not quick enough posting that wise remark of yours...about the booze...sorry, the L word associates with Bailey's-type of beverages in my mind... Because of that - and that is the sole reason, indeed...not that I am that lazy or something... I feel disinclined to make the simul...well, the truth is, I couldn't manage it in the last half an hour or so (now my perverted mind starts to tell me all those that write of simuls simply go ahead from where the team is on the safe ... I simply can't believe it that someone will spend three-four hours to simulate).
So. I'll trust you on this. The whip won't hurt...and might be preferable to the axe in certain situations...on the receiving side at least...

On Ista and Kara: depends on the way we go. We go war: barracks and axes (monument in Kara can help whipping later, so I'm in for it...especially if this will be a monument like the Olympic symbol ... or any other combination of the five...ahm...circles...

In my Duke-ish tninking, I'd continue to war with the Khan till we get Theo - in ten-something turns and exchanging it for massive tech (alpha, IW, fishing, whatever more expensive) - while pillageing, reconnaissing, and razing. Now, please, note!: this is a simple mind's thinking: evidently I am far for understanding the intricacies of tech trading, or I would have feigned the emperor!

And I'll deal with the closest towns of Sal first: I don't like him so close, and I will like him even less when he gets to guilds...or I'll have to like him too much at that point...Once we raze them we can turn onto Ram...all that provided we get to cats meanwhile...so it's long-term gibberish....

I did mean to give ivory to the Persians, though!!

 

[Cam_H]

(a.) Baileys? I was thinking more Jack Daniels overproof!

(b.) 500BC Olympic Games to be held in Karakorum? Maybe we should put up something hideous in recognition? Not particularly 'five rings-y' though.

(c.) On the ongoing war with Kublai post-Tufan ... I'm happy to go with the roster.

(d.) I'm not quite sure what to do about Saladin. Like woopdeedoo, I'd like to beat up Ramesses and Alexander just to deal with the game variant, but we should secure Construction and build up some forces before committing to a pathway there. Maybe Saladin will declare on us first?

(e.) Ivory to the Persians isn't a bad idea!

(f.) Please note that I have 'tweaked' the rules in the opening post of this thread in that {i.} we have until 625AD to found Islam seeing that I don't believe 620AD is actually a turn, and {ii.} if the Greeks or Egyptians get wiped out before 1450AD and 1520AD by another nation, then that variant is satisfied (I'm not sure if 1520AD is actually a year that's a turn either).

(g.) Even though I've done a proposed revised PPP, it's still Paradigm Shifter's turnset in case there was any doubt.

 

[FiveRings]

(a.) Baileys? I was thinking more Jack Daniels overproof!

Sorry, it's my English perhaps. "Liquor" in Bulgarian denotes all sweet fruity low-alcohol (for us, that's below 40) beverages, or at least I think so. So, the pun didn'd pound, I guess.

Are you sure that PS is still with us? It ain't easy to shift those type of things...

BTW Jack is much too expensive here compared to Johnny. Much to my grief: Not to ruffle any Brittish feathers, but I like the rough taste of the bourbon much better. And this has nothing to do with our being francophones ... I guess the only European nation to be that...French do not count: they are the beau mond...

 

[Brian Shanahan]

BTW Jack is much too expensive here compared to Johnny. Much to my grief: Not to ruffle any Brittish feathers, but I like the rough taste of the bourbon much better. And this has nothing to do with our being francophones ... I guess the only European nation to be that...French do not count: they are the beau mond...

You can't drink, especially if you compare that fruit juice they produce in the states to proper drink. Though for preference I'll drink Glenfiddich or the Midleton whiskeys.

 

[FiveRings]

You can't drink, especially if you compare that fruit juice they produce in the states to proper drink. Though for preference I'll drink Glenfiddich or the Midleton whiskeys.

That's correct. Anyway, I was talking about taste, not ability to drink ... whatever you mean by being able to drink... And I would rather read a comment on the game than a comment on the small talk exchanged while waiting for the turns to be made, especially from an experienced player like you. Well, I guess, I shouldn't be bubbling so much, too...

 

[Brian Shanahan]

That's correct. Anyway, I was talking about taste, not ability to drink ... whatever you mean by being able to drink... And I would rather read a comment on the game than a comment on the small talk exchanged while waiting for the turns to be made, especially from an experienced player like you. Well, I guess, I shouldn't be bubbling so much, too...

Sorry most of my games tend to be a bit spammy at some stage, and I tend to carry that over a bit.

And secondly experienced doesn't neccessarily mean good, and I don't generally follow plans too well unless I'm looking at the save myself, so most of my advice for games I'm not playing is either mechanics which have previously tripped me up or very immediate concerns.

My apologies though if I came off a bit too much, or overly spammy.

 

[Cam_H]

woopdeedoo,

Could you please take this turnset?

I am not sure what's going on with Paradigm Shifter, but I'm rather keen to ensure that this game does not completely lose momentum. I'm putting Paradigm Shifter on skip.

woopdeedoo <<< Up
Cam <<< On Deck
FiveRings
(ParadigmShifter) - skip until otherwise advised
<< Open >>
<< Open >>​

 

[FiveRings]

Sorry most of my games tend to be a bit spammy at some stage, and I tend to carry that over a bit.

And secondly experienced doesn't neccessarily mean good, and I don't generally follow plans too well unless I'm looking at the save myself, so most of my advice for games I'm not playing is either mechanics which have previously tripped me up or very immediate concerns.

My apologies though if I came off a bit too much, or overly spammy.

No need to apologize: no offence taken, I am sure there was none meant. At least, none discerned. But if you feel like it, you can send me a pair of bottles...

 

[woopdeedoo]

woopdeedoo,

Could you please take this turnset?

I am not sure what's going on with Paradigm Shifter, but I'm rather keen to ensure that this game does not completely lose momentum. I'm putting Paradigm Shifter on skip.

Sure, no probs. I would also like the game to actually finish rather than stagnate like so many SG's I have lurked over the past 3 years. Will download (save) and play today. We had a pub holiday yesterday and I have almost zero work so I will play now-now...

Edit: Got the save, it works, will play shortly.

2nd Edit: How many turns am I supposed to play? 10?

 

[Cam_H]

15 turns ... or if you feel the need to complete something sooner or later than that, then that's fine (e.g. stop at 13 or go to 17 if it 'makes sense').

Best of luck - I trust PPP in #141 is clear and agreeable to you.

 

[woopdeedoo]

EDIT: Cam, your comment came in while I was playing and yes, it is clear and agreeable with me.

T0 - Continue assault on Turfan, lose a spear, promote (city raider) another, hit enter.

T1 - Gibbons says we are richest in the world (makes a nice change! ) :

Axe done in, set Istanbul to Jew Temple (decided to do that instead because it'll take as long as Theo to build). Barracks finish in Beshalik but since we not connected, it has no copper. Set it to Worker (7) so we can get some more stuff connected etc. Worker done in Kara, so switch Besh to warrior instead. Move Ista axe to Kara. I'm clearly because I am missing things a bit here. Sorry for that. I spotted our two workers and they are hooking up our newly acquired cities (1t).

At this point, Mansa will trade all the cheap tech and IW as well but still no Alpha or Monarchy. He is, however, willing to trade AH, Math and IW for MC but that is as far as he will go. Decide to hold off on the trade for now but I think we should consider this as we could use the Chariots in our advance.

For some reason (probably cause of the dual worker road building action, the warrior in Besh can be cancelled and switched to axe before any are invested .

We take Turfan and I set it to build monument. It is at this point that I make the decision to take the tech trade with Mansa for AH, Math and IW. We have loads of Jungle to clear and getting food etc into our cities seems like a priority. It is also at this time that MM won't make the trade anymore Now, KK only has one city left but we have some WW in Ista so I sue for peace, and Ista is happy again.

Our Ista spear kills the barbs hanging out on our Ivory. And, out of the blue, a worker appears at Ankara. I tell it to farm the tile next to our mine.

Phew! That was somewhat stressful! Enter.

T2 - Sal's NE marble city's borders pop. He is making me . I almost feel like DOWing just to wipe the grin off his face on that irritating city!!! (But I don't). MM still won't include AH with Math and IW.

Before I continue, I save here and want to consult with the rest of the roster regarding these tech trades, should I take IW and Math for MC or wait?

 

[Cam_H]

No - don't make the trade.

We want either Alphabet or Monarchy from Metal Casting at worst.

Alphabet will open the whole world up to trades, and we can get Monarchy out of Ramesses, possibly Horseback Riding out of Cyrus (we need to self research Animal Husbandry first), and surely Iron Working and/or Maths out of others ... all for Metal Casting. (Maybe researching Animal Husbandry now isn't a bad idea).

Monarchy is of interest only as a prerequisite to Divine Right. I'd hang on to our monopoly on Metal Casting rather than take the trade, because we're no longer in a hurry for it (because of the 2 Great Prophet bulb pathway that we're taking {rather than the 1 Great Prophet bulb + research the rest}), but if you really want Monarchy asap. then I can live with it.

As noted earlier, trading away an expensive monopoly tech' for several cheap widely-known tech's is far from desirable (from a WFYABTA perspective if nothing else). Trading a monopoly tech' for several moderately-priced tech's in multiple trades is far better.

I would like Iron Working ... but not that much.

 

[woopdeedoo]

No - don't make the trade.

We want either Alphabet or Monarchy from Metal Casting at worst.

Alphabet will open the whole world up to trades, and we can get Monarchy out of Ramesses, possibly Horseback Riding out of Cyrus (we need to self research Animal Husbandry first), and surely Iron Working and/or Maths out of others ... all for Metal Casting. (Maybe researching Animal Husbandry now isn't a bad idea).

Monarchy is of interest only as a prerequisite to Divine Right. I'd hang on to our monopoly on Metal Casting rather than take the trade, because we're no longer in a hurry for it (because of the 2 Great Prophet bulb pathway that we're taking {rather than the 1 Great Prophet bulb + research the rest}), but if you really want Monarchy asap. then I can live with it.

As noted earlier, trading away an expensive monopoly tech' for several cheap widely-known tech's is far from desirable (from a WFYABTA perspective if nothing else). Trading a monopoly tech' for several moderately-priced tech's in multiple trades is far better.

I would like Iron Working ... but not that much.

Ok, that's what I was thinking too. Cool, I shall resume shortly.

 

[Cam_H]

I'm not sure if you'll get this in time, but I'm not sure on the Jewish Temple in Istanbul. If it's to combat unhappiness, then we'll lose our whip weariness soon enough. If it's to run a Priest, we don't particularly need that there, but Edirne. If it's for the culture, then it's already pushing out OK levels of culture. I'd firmly recommend a Library until we get access to Marble for The Parthenon, or 'heck' just go for The Parthenon anyway and endure a couple of turns without the Marble-turbo.

 

[FiveRings]

What's going on in Ankara? We should have had the B missionary already going to Ed. Or is it a secret mission, that one...!?

I don't understand the logic of going for peace with KK when we are having a bunch of of axes and spears ready to pillage and raze. W, could you, please, tell me of any other reasons but getting rid of the red face in Ista? And I concur with Cam on the library in Ista in the stead of the temple; or we may lose all our chances to implement plan B (the GrSc there) if Plan A fails.

 

[FiveRings]

Oh, and I thought that we need all the workers around Ed for the chopping of the B temple and the farming of the omly farmabla grassland there. I guess we are already off the 2 GrPrs in Ed course. Are we on the course of finishing the game ASAP?!

 

[woopdeedoo]

Ok, so to continue, I change Ista from Jew Temple, to Parthenon (Yes, Cam. I got your post in time ). Working only hammer-heavy tiles, due in 34 until we get marble online (3t).

On a side note, our combat exp is 26/30 for our GG.

Move some workers around for chops and roading. Now I am no longer because I think I know where everyone is

T3 - Move military around onto cities and fortify a bunch of them. Also do a little bit of pre-chop at Besh for Forge or something. We have a good lot of units so more isn't really necessary right now methinks.

T4 - Jew Temple comes in at Erdine, hire priest and set to Jew monastary. Move one citizen to feed off forest, pop is stagnant. Also whippy whip Ankara and set to work mine for Theo due in 6. GPr due in 8.

T5 - There was some overflow in Ankara, build Granary for 2 turns. Cyrus converts to Hinduism. Send Bud Miss to Erdine, due in 3. Settle some troops. Forget about pre-chop Darwin B(orn)IAFL.

T6 - Set Besh to build forge, lotsa hills you know and fortify axe. Set Ankara to work newly finished farm. Growth in 11 and Gran down to 2 turns (with teeny bit of overflow) Workers are also roading like crazy. Tarfur comes out of revolt and I set it to work the mine at stagnant growth (until monu comes in 5) so we can also build some farms and stuff there. Parthanon is now due in 15 (Istanbul).

Whip Monument in Kara (1pop). According to tech screen, everyone has Alpha now. Trade Monarchy and IW with MM for our MC. We can get all the back tech from Ram for MC but I don't make the trade in case of WFYHBTA. On a side note, KK (obviously) and Cyrus refuse to trade any tech with us. Caesar does not yet have Alpha.

T7 - Kara's monument is in, set to granary (2). Workers roading... AAANNNNDDDD, Buddhism spreads in Erdine!
Trade Sal Math and Alpha for MC and Mono. On a related note, now that I can see all the trades, Caesar also won't trade with us (WFYHBTA??), even though he only has cheap tech, and MM has Construction. Chop forest on spice by Besh to rush the Forge.

T8 - Granary comes in at Ankara, set Budd temple for vs Egypt. Get worker duo to Erdine to start chopping those Jungles for . I also slot the Budd Temple (12) ahead of Jew Mona for them delicious priests.

T9 - Got some workers chopping forests for Erdine temple and others farming for Turfan.

T10 - Theo comes in and Christianity is found in Turfan. Set research to AH (3). Send missionary to Erdine (who knows, maybe we get lucky ). Chops are in and Besh's Forge is down to 12 turns (from 19). Worker starts roading a shorter route to Istanbul. Besh is also working the farm and is due for growth in 2 so then the cottages will get some growth too.

At this point, I see this:

Additionally;

So Ramesses is the only willing Lit trader and no has gone into AH yet. Since we are nervous about WFYHBTA, I hesitate... and I ponder... And decide to go for it, switch tech to DR and when the GPr comes, we will found Islam. Using a single GPr, allowing the 2nd GPr to shrine, or... whatever. I sincerely hope I didn't make a mistake with this decision and if I did, I humbly apologise. DR is due in 129 @ 30%

T11 - We have horse in Karkurom (as we know) AND at Istanbul Sadly, just outside our BFC

I send my Jungle chopping duo into the forest to help chop out our Budd Temple. Reearch is also at 0. I would like to upgrade the Warriors at some point. We are +13 atm.

T12 - Awwww. Christianity doesn't spread. Maybe I should moved the free missionary elsewhere. I guess I derped a little there. My apologies
Eastern worker duo start clearing Jungle around Turfan and I move my Southerly roading worker into forest to chop for Istanbul's Parthenon. It is at this time I see that the chops will go to Besh so I will simply road to hook up extra ponies.

T13 - We get our Prophet and Christianity spreads to Kara on it's own! (A little redemption from the RNG Gods ). Ramesses completes the Parthenon He is going to pay. I bulb half of DR as discussed. We get 228 and I set to 100%. DR due in 17. Cyrus founds Confusion and won't trade CoL. erdine is due another GPr in 39 with 1 priest and 24 with 2 but the starvation is hectic. Since a second bulb won't be needed, I don't hire the second priest. Oh, and I set Istanbul to build axe. I also set Ista and Besh to work their cottages.

T14 - Move worker around to make farms and road etc. Sal adopts OR. zzz

T15 - Set SW worker duo to chop Jungle under Turfan. So DR is due in 14 (or was it 13) I really hope I didn't make too many decisions and welcome all comments and . Also, the save.