The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Gorbles]

but asking for gun control is pretty much just as useless

Tell you what - let's race and see who gets done first.

"something is faster to do" !== "something is useless to do"

Just admit you don't want the thing. People will still disagree, but at least it's an honest argument.

 

[JPetroski]

- it baffles me that we're in a place where break-safe jams like that are necessary. in denmark we have almost no issues like this and you can freely enter schools
- i don't think the legislation has draw; there's little political will to do much about it tbh; yours would require increased funding from a wing that doesn't like to fund schools that way. they like to sell weapons to teachers tho, sometimes, because that's within their space of what's ok to do

I don't really think it's necessary. I'm just saying if one wanted to do something actionable and achievable, the option is there for them. And there's no need for government funding. These jams run less than $100 a piece. Well within reach of private groups fundraising if they cared to. I'm sure plenty have already, locally.

Just admit you don't want the thing. People will still disagree, but at least it's an honest argument.

I don't want it but it's also not going to happen, so it is just as useless as the oft-aligned "thoughts and prayers." You will not get rid of guns in the United States, no matter how good it makes you feel to advocate for that. People marching down to the capitol to demand action would 100% be better off organizing a bake sale to raise funds for things that are actually in their own control and achievable.

 

[Gorbles]

You will not get rid of guns in the United States

"further and / or stricter gun control" !== "get rid of guns across the whole country"

Who are these exaggerations helping, exactly? The victims? Their relatives? Who?

 

[E.man]

My sister has half a dozen guns *in Australia*. There are plenty of guns here in the country.
None of hers are assault weapons. Never saw anyone with machine guns on their farm either.

Rest of the world: starting to not care any more 'more murcans murdering. Meh, They all nuts anyway. '

 

[E.man]

I don't really think it's necessary. I'm just saying if one wanted to do something actionable and achievable, the option is there for them. And there's no need for government funding. These jams run less than $100 a piece. Well within reach of private groups fundraising if they cared to. I'm sure plenty have already, locally.



I don't want it but it's also not going to happen, so it is just as useless as the oft-aligned "thoughts and prayers." You will not get rid of guns in the United States, no matter how good it makes you feel to advocate for that. People marching down to the capitol to demand action would 100% be better off organizing a bake sale to raise funds for things that are actually in their own control and achievable.

You going to end up living in bunkers and driving bullet proof cars.

 

[Lexicus]

People like to turn their nose up at those offering "thoughts and prayers" after these things happen, and maybe with good reason, but asking for gun control is pretty much just as useless.

At least gun control could accomplish something in principle; magic cannot

How do you feel about people keeping fire extinguishers at the ready?

If they're gonna use them to kill people, then I feel pretty fudgin nervous

 

[JPetroski]

At least gun control could accomplish something in principle; magic cannot

Well you've got me there.

 

[Lexicus]

People marching down to the capitol to demand action would 100% be better off organizing a bake sale to raise funds for things that are actually in their own control and achievable.

"People marching down to the capitol to demand school integration would be better off doing a bake sale to raise funds for their children's school"

 

[JPetroski]

"People marching down to the capitol to demand school integration would be better off doing a bake sale to raise funds for their children's school"

I mean, is there a product you can buy that integrates the school? Because there are products you can buy that keep shooters out of classrooms <shrug>

 

[AmazonQueen]

I mean, is there a product you can buy that integrates the school? Because there are products you can buy that keep shooters out of classrooms <shrug>

Really? You've been going down that root with armed security in schools, not letting parents into schools etc for years and the number of shootings has been getting worse, especially since the ban on assault weapons expired in 2004.
13 school shootings this year so far. 51 last year.

 

[Broken_Erika]

"People marching down to the capitol to demand school integration would be better off doing a bake sale to raise funds for their children's school"

Do you honestly think that people marching on Washington for gun control actually accomplish anything? The Republicans would brush it off as leftist snowflake march and nothing would pass the senate or house.

 

[JPetroski]

Really? You've been going down that root with armed security in schools, not letting parents into schools etc for years and the number of shootings has been getting worse, especially since the ban on assault weapons expired in 2004.
13 school shootings this year so far. 51 last year.

Yes, there's a number of manufacturers with various products that make it harder for a shooter to enter a classroom. Some are quite elaborate, others relatively simple. They aren't in every school but seem to be well-liked in places they are from what I can tell.

Anyway, if any of you are worried about your kids and think the odds of this happening to them are enough to concern you, by all means check these products out and maybe organize their purchase for your local school district.

 

[Arwon]

What the 'most armed man in America' has to say about mass shootings​

Mel Bernstein says he has more than 4,000 weapons on his compound.

&#151; -- Colorado gun shop owner Mel Bernstein became casually known as the “most armed man in America” after acquiring thousands of high-powered weapons, bazookas and machine guns.

His firearms collection dwarfs the number of guns -- 47 -- allegedly found in the Las Vegas hotel suite and two homes of mass shooter Stephen Paddock, for instance, but the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is unable to confirm whether Bernstein has amassed more weapons than any other U. S. gun owner.

“ATF cannot quantify who possesses the most firearms in America because there is no database to reference this information,” an ATF representative wrote in response to an inquiry from ABC News. “A firearm registry or database of individuals who own firearms regulated under the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not exist.”

In addition to selling the kind of guns used in the Sutherland Texas, Las Vegas and Columbine High School shootings, Bernstein said, his gun shop sold out of bump stocks shortly after the Vegas massacre that left 58 people dead and over 500 injured. Paddock allegedly modified 12 of his rifles with bump stocks, an attachment that enables a semiautomatic rifle to fire hundreds of shots per minute.

“They were only $185,” Bernstein said. “In two days [after the Oct. 1 Vegas attack], we sold all of them.”

His supply of eight bump stocks had previously been sitting on the shelf for eight months, he said.

“Whatever the killer used, that’s what they want,” Bernstein, 71, said of his customers. “They want to feel the firepower. They want to have the gun just like that to show people.”

Bernstein says he has amassed over 4,000 weapons at his Colorado Springs compound, where he also keeps military-style vehicles. The weapons are registered in his name, he says, and he also rents and sells machine guns to his customers.

His gun shop, six shooting ranges, military museum, paintball park, motorcross park and home are located on the 260-acre property known as Dragonland.

“We’ve been selling more guns in the last three weeks than we have in the last eight months,” Bernstein said of his firearms shop called Dragonmans.

As for gun ownership in general, about 3 percent of Americans own about half the country’s 265 million guns, according to a 2016 Harvard-Northeastern survey. Such “super owners” possess an average of 17 guns each, and an estimated 133 million guns in total.

Bernstein has signs along his mile-long driveway threatening “gang bangers” and “registered Democrats” from stepping onto his property. Bullet-riddled cars and mannequins covered in fake blood serve as a warning to potential trespassers.

“If anybody comes on your property and threatens you with bodily harm, it’s legal to shoot them, [according to] Colorado law,” Bernstein said as he drove toward his one-story house in which he keeps M16s, sawed-off shotguns, and multiple handguns around his bed.

In August, four people used Bernstein’s truck to smash into the Dragonmans gun store and steal 84 guns, police said. Federal authorities have since arrested four suspects, including his stepdaughter and step-grandson, who now face felony charges in connection to the theft of firearms from a federal firearms licensee. They have not entered pleas.

Despite all the weapons and warnings, Bernstein says no one has ever been killed or even injured on his property. With one profound exception.

In 2012, his wife, Terry Flanell, 51, was accidentally killed by a smoke bomb on the property while filming a reality-TV pilot for the Discovery Channel.

“One of the smoke containers turned into a rocket and went right past me and through her and killed her,” Bernstein said


Now, his home -- decorated with jukeboxes, vintage Cola-Cola memorabilia and model cars -- reminds him of a bygone era.

Bernstein also keeps four female mannequins at the home. “I need someone to talk to, to tell them my problems,” Bernstein said.

He added: “This whole house fixed up like this puts me back in my era, back in the sixties where I belong.”
https://abcnews.go.com/US/armed-man-america-mass-shootings/story?id=50704521

So this is mental illness yeah

 

[AmazonQueen]

Yes, there's a number of manufacturers with various products that make it harder for a shooter to enter a classroom. Some are quite elaborate, others relatively simple. They aren't in every school but seem to be well-liked in places they are from what I can tell.

Anyway, if any of you are worried about your kids and think the odds of this happening to them are enough to concern you, by all means check these products out and maybe organize their purchase for your local school district.

No thanks, I'll stay in a country with sensible gun laws.

 

[Lexicus]

I mean, is there a product you can buy that integrates the school? Because there are products you can buy that keep shooters out of classrooms <shrug>

It is somewhat shocking the way this misses the point. The schools where black children were shunted were vastly poorer than white schools. This is indeed a problem solvable by "buying products," as you put it.

But telling the black parents to have a bake sale would be both asinine and racist, and telling parents concerned about their kids being shot to have a bake sale is equally asinine. As @Gorbles said, just be honest about your anti-gun-control position, it is a lot easier that way.

 

[IglooDame]

I'm curious as to why people thinks it matters how many guns a person owns. I've never heard of any mass murderer carrying more than maybe three firearms at most, and surely it'd be better to carry more mags for a couple guns than more guns in any case.

Disclaimer: I have just under a dozen, I'm not sure if that puts me into 'crazy catgun lady' territory or not.

 

[JPetroski]

But telling the black parents to have a bake sale would be both asinine and racist, and telling parents concerned about their kids being shot to have a bake sale is equally asinine.

I'm not sure why it's asinine to provide a solution within their grasp that can be achieved and suggest that they do it if they're so worried? None of this seems illogical to me.

No thanks, I'll stay in a country with sensible gun laws.

I'll just hang out here and actually look at this objectively rather than losing my head because the media tells me to. I'm a parent who lives here. I'm not nearly as concerned as many of our foreign posters. Maybe you folks have honest media; I don't know... But I think you may be putting way too much faith in ours. This isn't a terribly likely thing to happen, as evidenced by the fact that people aren't rushing out to actually take the small but achievable steps they could accomplish today to mitigate the situation.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I'm not sure why it's asinine to provide a solution within their grasp that can be achieved and suggest that they do it if they're so worried? None of this seems illogical to me.



I'll just hang out here and actually look at this objectively rather than losing my head because the media tells me to. I'm a parent who lives here. I'm not nearly as concerned as many of our foreign posters. Maybe you folks have honest media; I don't know... But I think you may be putting way too much faith in ours. This isn't a terribly likely thing to happen, as evidenced by the fact that people aren't rushing out to actually take the small but achievable steps they could accomplish today to mitigate the situation.

More likely to happen in the US than any other developed democracy and you are refusing to take the steps that might work instead putting your faith in the same things that have been failing for years.

 

[JPetroski]

More likely to happen in the US than any other developed democracy and you are refusing to take the steps that might work instead putting your fith in the same things that have been failing for years.

How likely? As a parent, should I be worried? From what I can see, the answer is no. We have some **extremely** large problems over here. This isn't really one of them. It's just one of the more sensational.

 

[Angst]

so i kinda get the appeal that gun control is hard to accomplish in the states because of political will being hard to change, and that there may be available, practical options the us can invest in right now to prevent harm. sure. (from what i understand of your solution, the 100$ cost is a massive misnomer; it bloats quickly with amount of space needed to be covered + the crew that will set it up. plus, again, there is no republican political will in this section of spending)

but this part

We have some **extremely** large problems over here. This isn't really one of them. It's just one of the more sensational.

???????????????????

like the numbers be jacked and you say noone's liftin