The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[rah]

No, but reminds me of this:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Powder_Mage_trilogy

Just finished a couple of the sequels. Still entertaining.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The only ones i've read are a number of the 1632 series by Eric Flint.
It's about a modern West Virginia mountain town that gets transported into Germany during the 30 years war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_serieshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series

 

[rah]

I liked most of those but a few of the spin-offs written by others, not so much.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Texas officer kills man in flat she mistakes for her own

A police officer in the US state of Texas has shot and killed a man in a flat after mistakenly thinking she was in her own unit, police say.

The unnamed Dallas officer entered the apartment after her shift on Thursday night and confronted the victim, 26-year-old Botham Shem Jean.

Jean was treated on scene and taken to hospital, where he later died.

The officer has been placed on leave while the police and District Attorney's Office investigate.

Local media report Jean was a native of St Lucia.

I'm sure they'll find that the Officer acted appropriately and no charges will be laid.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45450558

 

[Lexicus]

She was afraid for her life! She had to use necessary force!

 

[Sommerswerd]

The phrase that pays is "In fear for her life"

C'mon Lex get it right.

 

[cardgame]

Obviously if the man had a gun he could have defended his castle.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Obviously if the man had a gun he could have defended his castle.

Then they'd be talking about how a Radical BLM Terrorist murdered a Police Officer in his own home.

 

[rah]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/us/amber-guyger-arrest-botham-shem-jean/index.html

The officer was charged with manslaughter.

 

[Lexicus]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/us/amber-guyger-arrest-botham-shem-jean/index.html

The officer was charged with manslaughter.

This is why we need to take their guns

 

[Uberfrog]

Obviously if the man had a gun he could have defended his castle.

The NRA are taking notes: https://www.newsweek.com/nra-dana-loesch-botham-jean-dallas-cop-killed-neighbor-apartment-1116267

 

[Farm Boy]

Obviously if the man had a gun he could have defended his castle.

I realize this is meant as bitter irony, but most of the people I know that are into the armed self defense thing would shake their heads and say, yeah, it'd have been a better outcome if he had killer her than she had killed him. A police officer barging into your house and killing you for no reason is pretty much the textbook in the reasoning. She's going to be in prison. The question is for how long. The actus reus here is so egregious that I'm really hoping the mens rea doesn't make a travesty of it.

About the only stupily slim silver lining here is that you can pretty much use this as a litmus test for conversation partners. If somebody is supporting the rights of people to own guns, and not taking the stance I took above... well, then you know what's driving their bus for sure. I don't think you'll find many that'll own up to it*, but hey, I'm unpleasantly surprised all the time.

*Outside of cruel strangers on the internet pissing in each other's eyes because that's their jam, I suppose. But you can usually tell when you're wandering under the bridge there.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If the guy had a gun in the house there is little chance he would just happen to have been carrying it around. The cop, on the other hand, had hers when she walked in the door. Odds are heavily in her favor, and "he was armed" would make her less likely to face the punishment she deserves.

While the reasoning is sound that this is a "textbook" justification for having guns, it also plays directly into the "guns are magic" fantasy that drives the gun nuts.

 

[Lexicus]

As numerous other folks (on social media etc) pointed out, even if he'd happened to have the gun when she entered the apartment, and shot her, he likely would have been "shot resisting arrest" shortly thereafter.

 

[Broken_Erika]

As numerous other folks (on social media etc) pointed out, even if he'd happened to have the gun when she entered the apartment, and shot her, he likely would have been "shot resisting arrest" shortly thereafter.

And then painted as a Radical Communist BLM Liberal Religious Fundamentalist Atheist terrorist!

 

[Lexicus]

And then painted as a Radical Communist BLM Liberal Religious Fundamentalist Atheist terrorist!

Nope, just immigrant scum who shouldn't even have been here shooting a young, promising cop with a whole career and life ahead of her. *sniffle*

 

[Farm Boy]

And then painted as a Radical Communist BLM Liberal Religious Fundamentalist Atheist terrorist!

Well, the internet is less surprisingly bad every year.

 

[cardgame]

I realize this is meant as bitter irony, but most of the people I know that are into the armed self defense thing would shake their heads and say, yeah, it'd have been a better outcome if he had killer her than she had killed him. A police officer barging into your house and killing you for no reason is pretty much the textbook in the reasoning. She's going to be in prison. The question is for how long. The actus reus here is so egregious that I'm really hoping the mens rea doesn't make a travesty of it.

About the only stupily slim silver lining here is that you can pretty much use this as a litmus test for conversation partners. If somebody is supporting the rights of people to own guns, and not taking the stance I took above... well, then you know what's driving their bus for sure. I don't think you'll find many that'll own up to it*, but hey, I'm unpleasantly surprised all the time.

*Outside of cruel strangers on the internet pissing in each other's eyes because that's their jam, I suppose. But you can usually tell when you're wandering under the bridge there.

Well, I was pleasantly surprised today, as I looked up some background info and you are completely correct, castle doctrine does apply against police - two cases dropped/found not guilty. I was honestly expecting the "police are above those laws," type of thing.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yeah, famously(and a rallying cry on the right) the Ruby Ridge guy that got entrapped and then stalked and then sniped did get a wrongful death settlement out of the Federal Marshals even after he killed one. Though bear in mind they still refuse to apologize or recognize fault to this day. It's sort of a cold comfort check on power. He put a murderous marshal in the ground, and he got a cheque, but they killed his dog, and his son, and his wife.

 

[Commodore]

This is why we need to take their guns

See, we can agree on some things Lexicus. If I had to choose between disarming the general population or disarming the cops, I would definitely choose to disarm the cops. Especially after seeing just how irresponsible cops are at handling their firearms.