The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[TheMeInTeam]

The current owner of every car is documented, providing a complete history. The cost of maintaining that documentation is paid through annual registration fees paid by the owner of the car. In the vast majority of states that annual registration process includes periodic presentation of the car for inspection. Transferring ownership, whether personally or through a dealer, requires full documentation of the buyer. Insurance to protect bystanders is required for operation. In most states to sell more than a very small number in any given year requires a sales license. Possession/operation by other than the registered owner is subject to investigation as automatic probable cause.

I was thinking more in terms of legal consequences and what you're allowed to do/own, but this is a good point. There are fewer rogue cars as a result (IE stolen and utilized criminally).

The other thing to consider is that arbitrary products like xbox systems, knives, bricks, and power tools are less regulated than guns. Are guns sufficiently damaging to merit tighter regulation? It depends how much someone cares about them as compared to alternative means of homicide/suicide assuming tighter regulation. I would anticipate both of these rates to go down somewhat overall, with alternative methods increasing somewhat overall. Worth the cost? I don't know.

 

[rah]

I can't remember the last time I read in the paper about someone committing suicide with a power drill. Or killed 20 people with one.
So yeah, I think guns do merit tighter regulation.

 

[El_Machinae]

I've heard of people barricading themselves with an Xbox, intent on denying the authority of other people to get them out of the basement.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I can't remember the last time I read in the paper about someone committing suicide with a power drill. Or killed 20 people with one.

In March of 2014, a construction crew using a welder inside a Boston/Back Bay "brownstone" (a 19th-Century rowhouse) started a 9-alarm fire. A backdraft killed two firefighters and injured several more when the hose they were using was burned through behind them and they lost nozzle pressure. Investigations found various problems, including that the welders were operating without a license (and I suppose, therefore, without a "fire watch"), and there were no working smoke detectors (I think you're supposed to have smoke detectors even if the unit is unoccupied). The fire department has changed its training protocols for those buildings and is looking for hoses that are more resistant to high temperatures. I'm not sure what happened to the welders. At any rate, after the disaster, measures were taken to prevent it happening again, although I'm not aware that another, similar fire has occurred, so maybe the changes haven't been put to the test yet.

 

[rah]

Yes, anything can be used to kill, but it's usually guns when you read the papers. As you say, that one was kind of a freak. Except for automobiles, most none gun related are.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Yes, anything can be used to kill, but it's usually guns when you read the papers. As you say, that one was kind of a freak. Except for automobiles, most none gun related are.

Right, when you kill someone with a gun, you aren't misusing it, are you? (Well, some number of people are killed in gun-related accidents each year, but I don't think it's a huge portion of the total - I think it's like 500 a year.)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, anything can be used to kill, but it's usually guns when you read the papers. As you say, that one was kind of a freak. Except for automobiles, most none gun related are.

Crushing majority of gun owners never kill another human being. For those that are willing to kill/commit suicide, what matters is the marginal homicide/suicide rate of guns vs what these people might use as the next available alternative. Taking away guns won't stop all suicides that choose guns first, only the ones that are only willing/able to use guns for example.

If I'm not mistaken homicide rates in London and New York are comparable, but which weapons are typically used between the two cities isn't. Are we going to register our knives too?

Right, when you kill someone with a gun, you aren't misusing it, are you?

That depends on the circumstances under which you kill them.

If you aimed your rifle too high, missing a deer and killing someone that can't even be seen, then "yes" (this kind of thing happens now and then).
If you broke into someone's house and panic-fired them to death while trying to steal stuff, then "yes".
If you instead shot the thief per above, then "no".

It is also possible to misuse a gun without even firing it/killing them, such as pointing it at someone to get money.

 

[rah]

what matters is the marginal homicide/suicide rate of guns vs what these people might use as the next available alternative. Taking away guns won't stop all suicides that choose guns first, only the ones that are only willing/able to use guns for example.

Many people that attempt and don't succeed don't try again. Most that use a gun don't get the chance to not try again.

I don't want to hear about London and New York. 500 people have already been shot this year in Chicago. This is before the slaughter that comes with warmer weather. Something must be done.

 

[Farm Boy]

London is bigger, but yes, given that people follow the news and the news would shift to the next type of slaying that's winning on the numbers I would expect that carrying pocketknives would be a pants on head next step. Then maybe long pointy kitchen knives or something. There's always something to be done.

 

[rah]

I would love to read it about something besides guns. 500 and it's not even May yet.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

London is bigger, but yes, given that people follow the news and the news would shift to the next type of slaying that's winning on the numbers I would expect that carrying pocketknives would be a pants on head next step. Then maybe long pointy kitchen knives or something. There's always something to be done.

Considering that's exactly what happened it sounds like a particularly educated guess .

I don't want to hear about London and New York. 500 people have already been shot this year in Chicago. This is before the slaughter that comes with warmer weather. Something must be done.

Chicago's an administrative dumpster fire. They're struggling just to process crimes no? I'd imagine a hefty percentage of those shooting deaths are drug/gang related too. Chicago's governance needs to fix its ability to run a city before its more nuanced laws even become meaningful.

 

[rah]

You can blame whomever you want, but it's guns that are doing the damage. Making it harder to purchase a gun in Chicago won't change anything if the can get them in Indiana a few blocks away.

And if you are insinuating that they struggle to process crimes based on what you've read about the Smollett case, you're as gullible as Trump supporters.

 

[Farm Boy]

Chicago is a bigger Detroit. So, inevitable, if you follow the phrophets of God Money.

 

[rah]

That's an excuse, not a solution.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's a causal factor. And a goal. And a judgement. It is a lot of things, Rah.

 

[rah]

I'll buy judgement, but not the others. But then I don't understand half the stuff you post. (which is probably an excuse, a casual factor but most likely, a goal)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You can blame whomever you want, but it's guns that are doing the damage. Making it harder to purchase a gun in Chicago won't change anything if the can get them in Indiana a few blocks away.

And if you are insinuating that they struggle to process crimes based on what you've read about the Smollett case, you're as gullible as Trump supporters.

I mean, 500 people getting shot in just over a quarter of a year is pretty rough, and you do have other crimes doing on like every other city. The stink of the Smollett case doesn't help perception there.

 

[rah]

While it may be, in all actuality, it seems a bit silly that R Kelly only gets 10 felony charges for being a pedophile while smollett gets 16 felony charges for lying to the police. Granted, i am offended by both, but in the bigger scheme of things, I'd rather see Kelly rot.

 

[Berzerker]

Either Kansas has some very unusual laws, or you are flat wrong. In most states not only the buyer but the seller as well is required to file a transfer of title with the DMV and if either of them fails to do so it triggers a status check, so the only way you could "buy a car with no regulations" is if you buy it from someone who agrees that neither of you will report the transaction. Since that leaves the seller on the hook for whatever you might do with the car that's gonna take some persuasion. Yes, if you keep it at home you can let the registration lapse, but that doesn't mean that you didn't have to do it in the first place.

Sellers have a motive to tell the state about the transfer for liability reasons but thats on them, not the buyer. I sold 2 cars here and never told the state because I knew the buyer's wanted them street ready. But that was years ago, the state may have changed the rules or I was violating them at the time. They recently did away with paper titles and its all in computer databases, oh joy... Now hackers can steal cars and have the sheriff oversee the transfer if the owners make a fuss.

My buddy is in the used car repair/sales business so I'll ask him, but I'm pretty sure buyer's dont have to do anything until they want to use their cars in public. I brought a car back from California and never registered it here and California kept sending me renewal notices to be ignored if the car wasn't in use. Thats the status they care about.

 

[rah]

In Illinois if you sell a car you must record the sale and pay the sales tax or you can be charged.