I'll ask you the same question... What are the odds that my kids are going to be killed in a mass shooting at school? You claim the numbers are jacked so I naturally assume you have them ready to share.
Anyway, here's an interesting article (from Nashville of all places) where they were considering some door jams (noting that an Ohio school credited them with saving potentially hundreds of lives in an active shooting situation of their own). I wonder if this school had them or not. It seems many communities did exactly what I'm advocating for and have found it an inexpensive option that gives them some peace of mind (and, at least in Ohio, worked).
How likely? As a parent, should I be worried? From what I can see, the answer is no. We have some **extremely** large problems over here. This isn't really one of them. It's just one of the more sensational.
As a parent you likely won't be worried until a shooting happens at your kid's school or your kid is killed by a gun. That is often how things work. If you don't see the increasing mass shootings in schools as a serious problem, then I think you are an uncaring person. Shame on you for your lack of empathy for those who lose their children senselessly.
As a parent you likely won't be worried until a shooting happens at your kid's school or your kid is killed by a gun. That is often how things work. If you don't see the increasing mass shootings in schools as a serious problem, then I think you are an uncaring person. Shame on you for your lack of empathy for those who lose their children senselessly.
How is my saying that something happens so rarely that I'm not going to worry about it happening to me, mean I don't have empathy for parents who lost their kids?
What are the odds? Is it actually a serious problem or a very, very, very random (and tragic) event?
I'm not sure why it's asinine to provide a solution within their grasp that can be achieved and suggest that they do it if they're so worried? None of this seems illogical to me.
Really? "Hey, I know your textbooks are literally falling apart, your school is uninhabitable due to mold and lack of ventilation, and your teachers are paid like 1/10th as much as the white teachers, but desegregation is never going to happen at the national level so try having a bake sale so you can get some textbooks that aren't printed on Wonderbread"
I'll ask you the same question... What are the odds that my kids are going to be killed in a mass shooting at school? You claim the numbers are jacked so I naturally assume you have them ready to share.
Anyway, here's an interesting article (from Nashville of all places) where they were considering some door jams (noting that an Ohio school credited them with saving potentially hundreds of lives in an active shooting situation of their own). I wonder if this school had them or not. It seems many communities did exactly what I'm advocating for and have found it an inexpensive option that gives them some peace of mind (and, at least in Ohio, worked).
for the first, mass shootings themselves are indeed reasonably tame on an international comparison (you're still quite, quite up there, plus the numbers are weird as US definitions of mass shootings are quite spacious), but it is part of a much larger problem of an absolutely heinous level of gun-related deaths putting you at the level of countries that jingoists call the third world. can you be as calm about school as you could in germany? depends on the numbers, like, maybe? can you be as calm about life as you can in germany? no. you should be worried for your kids.
... eh. depending on the state, i guess, but if you're in a safe neighbourhood and you don't care, you're the problem.
for the second, look, i want to think that it's feasible, it's just that the us school system is so underfunded to begin with, and mass installations of any stuff is always a real dip in the budget.
Whatever idea of freedom or safety you invest in your metal dicks is not worth one human life let alone hundreds every year, or tens of thousands if we're talking about all firearm violence and not just school shootings.
Whatever idea of freedom or safety you invest in your metal dicks is not worth one human life let alone hundreds every year, or tens of thousands if we're talking about all firearm violence and not just school shootings.
it's honestly baffling that a culture founded on the idea of land ownership has gotten so warped that protecting guns is more important than the protecting people that own the land. you aren't getting anything out of your patch of land if you're dead.
it's honestly baffling that a culture founded on the idea of land ownership has gotten so warped that protecting guns is more important than the protecting people that own the land. you aren't getting anything out of your patch of land if you're dead.
1. I am a parent.
2. I can't get rid of guns (I don't think any of you can, either--at least not any time soon).
3. I therefore have to decide if I'm going to worry about school shootings or not because the means of them happening aren't likely to stop being around any time soon.
4. I have researched the odds, and while reports of them vary (pretty widely, actually), there are a whole heck of a lot of more pressing dangers to my children I'm going to invest my concern in (example, we have a pool and I have taken significant steps to make that situation safer for my kids).
5. If I was concerned, I'd invest my energy and money on things I can actually control today.
As a result of taking this position, I've been called an uncaring person, that I lack empathy, that I'm part of the problem, and something waaaaay worse that was edited. I'm also getting the usual "any death is too many" and basic appeals to emotion, which frankly I can't win and wouldn't want to try to (we're talking about dead kids here, you guys are clearly on good moral standing), etc.
Anyway, I've done my due diligence. As a parent all we do is worry about our kids, but... There's a lot of other stuff out there that I'm more worried about than this. I did write to their principal though and inquire if there is any effort for putting these in the schools though.
I think it's OK for me to post it but please someone moderate it if I'm mistaken... Anyway as you can see parents fundraised on their own, the costs are low, volunteers tend to install them, etc. They're good steps forward even if it would be reaching to call them "solutions." They are achievable.
Spoiler:
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WKRN) – Tuesday’s school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, has many Tennesseans wondering what they can do to keep students safe.
Nightlock door stoppers have been available for nearly a decade and are credited with saving lives during Michigan’s 2021 Oxford High School shooting. The interest in the door stoppers is growing locally.
Nashville parents echo school safety fears after Texas mass shooting
Jack and Joe Taylor are the co-founders of Nightlock. They say that their products were used initially for residential purposes. It was another tragic school shooting that led to the installation of their products in schools. “After Sandy Hook happened over in Connecticut, schools started calling us to use our Nightlock door barricades on classroom doors.”
Nightlock offers two types of door stops for classroom use. They range in price from $50 to $70 per door stop, and the company has staff on hand to answer questions. “A lot of parents want to do fundraisers. A lot of PTAs involve the parents. It’s very easy to fundraise for these because we have 25 kids in a classroom. It’s only going to take a couple of dollars per kid. So we’re happy to help and share our experiences that we’ve had with other parents and schools.”
Thousands of schools have installed Nighlock’s door stops, including some in Middle Tennessee. Eric Lomax, the Director of Perry County Schools said it was a community effort to get them in place. “We put them in place right after Sandy Hook. And today, so it’s probably been about, I would say, seven, eight years ago,” Lomax told News 2.
Inglewood Elementary staff members tackle intruder, forcing him to the ground
Lomax says there was a lot of local support for the installation, “Sheriff Nick Weems was a big part of that. Helping get the locks in our schools. And then we actually raised the money community-wide. We raised the money to put them all in all the buildings. The Sheriff’s Office had some trustees come out after hours and install them.”
Other schools in Middle Tennessee are taking note and looking for ways to increase security measures. It’s a system that appeals to John Little, Metro Nashville’s school board member for District 4.
“When I heard about the idea, the first thing that came to mind was an extra layer of security. And I think something like a doorstop will serve a really good purpose,” said Little.
Little has already started looking for ways to make room in the budget for Nightlock door stops. “I think in light of the things that happened in Central Texas [Tuesday], I don’t think money would be or should be the issue. I think as we look at, you know, maybe leftover asset funds, or even the general budget, I think when we value the life of our kids and others, and we look at the cost, that money should not be an issue. Nor do I think it will be an issue.”
In so much as anyone needs "any" gun, the experience of shooting is totally different from gun to gun. Even something like a short barreled ar-15 has completely different characteristics from a longer one. And if you handload, you can go even further down the hobbyist rabbit hole. It's hard to put in words, but variety is nice.
.22 for cheap shooting
big bore hunting rifle
semi-auto carry pistol
semi-auto intermediate
semi-auto in full size caliber
shotgun for skeet or bird hunting
single action revolver
military surplus for collecting.
Etc etc etc,
1. I am a parent.
2. I can't get rid of guns (I don't think any of you can, either--at least not any time soon).
3. I therefore have to decide if I'm going to worry about school shootings or not because the means of them happening aren't likely to stop being around any time soon.
4. I have researched the odds, and while reports of them vary (pretty widely, actually), there are a whole heck of a lot of more pressing dangers to my children I'm going to invest my concern in (example, we have a pool and I have taken significant steps to make that situation safer for my kids).
5. If I was concerned, I'd invest my energy and money on things I can actually control today.
As a result of taking this position, I've been called an uncaring person, that I lack empathy, that I'm part of the problem, and something waaaaay worse that was edited. I'm also getting the usual "any death is too many" and basic appeals to emotion, which frankly I can't win and wouldn't want to try to (we're talking about dead kids here, you guys are clearly on good moral standing), etc.
Anyway, I've done my due diligence. As a parent all we do is worry about our kids, but... There's a lot of other stuff out there that I'm more worried about than this. I did write to their principal though and inquire if there is any effort for putting these in the schools though.
I think it's OK for me to post it but please someone moderate it if I'm mistaken... Anyway as you can see parents fundraised on their own, the costs are low, volunteers tend to install them, etc. They're good steps forward even if it would be reaching to call them "solutions." They are achievable.
Spoiler:
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WKRN) – Tuesday’s school shooting in Uvalde, Texas, has many Tennesseans wondering what they can do to keep students safe.
Nightlock door stoppers have been available for nearly a decade and are credited with saving lives during Michigan’s 2021 Oxford High School shooting. The interest in the door stoppers is growing locally.
Nashville parents echo school safety fears after Texas mass shooting
Jack and Joe Taylor are the co-founders of Nightlock. They say that their products were used initially for residential purposes. It was another tragic school shooting that led to the installation of their products in schools. “After Sandy Hook happened over in Connecticut, schools started calling us to use our Nightlock door barricades on classroom doors.”
Nightlock offers two types of door stops for classroom use. They range in price from $50 to $70 per door stop, and the company has staff on hand to answer questions. “A lot of parents want to do fundraisers. A lot of PTAs involve the parents. It’s very easy to fundraise for these because we have 25 kids in a classroom. It’s only going to take a couple of dollars per kid. So we’re happy to help and share our experiences that we’ve had with other parents and schools.”
Thousands of schools have installed Nighlock’s door stops, including some in Middle Tennessee. Eric Lomax, the Director of Perry County Schools said it was a community effort to get them in place. “We put them in place right after Sandy Hook. And today, so it’s probably been about, I would say, seven, eight years ago,” Lomax told News 2.
Inglewood Elementary staff members tackle intruder, forcing him to the ground
Lomax says there was a lot of local support for the installation, “Sheriff Nick Weems was a big part of that. Helping get the locks in our schools. And then we actually raised the money community-wide. We raised the money to put them all in all the buildings. The Sheriff’s Office had some trustees come out after hours and install them.”
Other schools in Middle Tennessee are taking note and looking for ways to increase security measures. It’s a system that appeals to John Little, Metro Nashville’s school board member for District 4.
“When I heard about the idea, the first thing that came to mind was an extra layer of security. And I think something like a doorstop will serve a really good purpose,” said Little.
Little has already started looking for ways to make room in the budget for Nightlock door stops. “I think in light of the things that happened in Central Texas [Tuesday], I don’t think money would be or should be the issue. I think as we look at, you know, maybe leftover asset funds, or even the general budget, I think when we value the life of our kids and others, and we look at the cost, that money should not be an issue. Nor do I think it will be an issue.”
thanks for sharing the article, i'm careful with local news, but it makes sense. actually seems promising. i hope the costs are as predicted, although it's kind of unfortunate we only have their words there.
ftr, i agree on the basic notion that if something's affordable and doable right now, it should be done. i think the systemic issue can be solved - but it's one of those things that can take a long time, and if we have something affordable to do now, there should be broad support for it. instead of like nonsense like arming teachers, which is just a bad idea, heh
thanks for sharing the article, i'm careful with local news, but it makes sense. actually seems promising. i hope the costs are as predicted, although it's kind of unfortunate we only have their words there.
ftr, i agree on the basic notion that if something's affordable and doable right now, it should be done. i think the systemic issue can be solved - but it's one of those things that can take a long time, and if we have something affordable to do now, there should be broad support for it. instead of like nonsense like arming teachers, which is just a bad idea, heh
Local (or international) news is the only way to go in the states. The MSM are just players in the theater
Arming teachers is dumb, agreed. Some of my teachers could barely write coherently on a chalkboard.
I just don't think the actual presence of firearms is the systemic issue that needs addressing here. I think the actual root of much if not most gun violence is simply the vast economic disparity we have here coupled with a complete lack of equality of opportunity that leads people to more violent pursuit of coin. Very broadly speaking the three main ways someone gets shot are in a crime of conquest (trying to acquire something, such as in a robbery or a drug deal/turf war/etc.) crimes of passion (fighting over a woman) or just because the shooter is insane (as I'd argue most of the true "woke up in the morning and tried to kill as many people as possible" mass shooters are).
Much of that just comes down to people not having equal opportunities or access. The good, "safe" neighborhoods you mentioned generally are ones where that opportunity is prevalent, go figure. Those safe neighborhoods have a large number of armed citizens too, of course.
This whole "turn schools into locked down paranoid prison spaces with guards and metal detectors and magic doors and murder avoidance drills" thing seems to be premised on the idea that there's no psycho-emotional cost from sending kids into that sort of bleak environment for 40 hours a week for over a decade of their most formative years. Like ok, angry men have very strong feelings about their boomsticks but reordering an entire society into a constant siege mentality, as people shuffle between different fortified bunker spaces, seems like a fairly major policy proposal as an alternative to dealing with that.
This whole "turn schools into locked down paranoid prison spaces with guards and metal detectors and magic doors and murder avoidance drills" thing seems to be premised on the idea that there's no psycho-emotional cost from sending kids into that sort of bleak environment for 40 hours a week for over a decade of their most formative years
Local (or international) news is the only way to go in the states. The MSM are just players in the theater
Arming teachers is dumb, agreed. Some of my teachers could barely write coherently on a chalkboard.
I just don't think the actual presence of firearms is the systemic issue that needs addressing here. I think the actual root of much if not most gun violence is simply the vast economic disparity we have here coupled with a complete lack of equality of opportunity that leads people to more violent pursuit of coin. Very broadly speaking the three main ways someone gets shot are in a crime of conquest (trying to acquire something, such as in a robbery or a drug deal/turf war/etc.) crimes of passion (fighting over a woman) or just because the shooter is insane (as I'd argue most of the true "woke up in the morning and tried to kill as many people as possible" mass shooters are).
Much of that just comes down to people not having equal opportunities or access. The good, "safe" neighborhoods you mentioned generally are ones where that opportunity is prevalent, go figure. Those safe neighborhoods have a large number of armed citizens too, of course.
i'm aware of that argument too, and honestly i'm open to it. (i'm just sick of people dying, and just want it to stop, i don't care much about what the root is, as long as the root is found and dealt with. regardless of whether it's the source of gun violence or not, inequality is bad.) there's a few instances of countries with high rates of firearm possession where it's much less of an issue because of economic equality. then of course there's stuff like greenland that has a ~20% gun ownership and little gun violence afaik, but a lot of other social issues, but with such a small population, could be a fishbowl.
Not sure what it is but there seems to be something specific about the Americas that leads to much higher homicide rates than even pretty poor and unequal other parts of the world.
At pretty much any level of income and HDI, if you compare a country in the Americas to one sort of comparable somewhere else, the American country is going to have a bigger murder problem. Mexico and Brazil have like 10x the murders per capita of, say, Algeria or Uzbekistan. The US has like 5x the murder rate of the UK. Argentina has double the murder rate of Turkey or Romania. Even presumably the safest American country, Canada, has over double Australia's homicide rate (or alternatively, Canada's was about the same as New Zealand's the year the Christchurch massacre doubled the latter).
Not sure what to do with this observation exactly, but there you go.
Not sure what it is but there seems to be something specific about the Americas that leads to much higher homicide rates than even pretty poor and unequal other parts of the world.
At pretty much any level of income and HDI, if you compare a country in the Americas to one sort of comparable somewhere else, the American country is going to have a bigger murder problem. Mexico and Brazil have like 10x the murders per capita of, say, Algeria or Uzbekistan. The US has like 5x the murder rate of the UK. Argentina has double the murder rate of Turkey or Romania. Even presumably the safest American country, Canada, has is over double Australia's homicide rate (or alternatively, Canada's was about the same as New Zealand's the year the Christchurch massacre doubled the latter).
Not sure what to do with this observation exactly, but there you go.
My understanding is many places handle them much better than American countries though lol. Mexico is basically run by cartels. Our usage rates are insane with very limited help, etc. Not sure if that's also comparable.
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