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The Three Missing Leader Trait Combos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by civvver, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

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    Two of my personal favorite traits are creative and charismatic, so it was a disappointment to realize that trait combo doesn't exist. In fact there are three trait combos that don't exist in the game: creative charismatic, industrious philosophical, and protective organized.

    Do you think these were left out just because they didn't want to add three more leaders and these combos got the short end of the stick? Or do you think it was more delibrate? Industrious philosophical does seem a bit overpowered for a wonder based great person economy, while on the opposite side protective organized seems underwhelming.

    Would you like to try out any of these combos? I would love the try a wonder economy with ind phill, and a military victory with cre char.
     
  2. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    The missing combos should have been added in the game.

    Japan/Meiji (Creative/Charismatic)
    El Cid/Spain (Organized/Protective)
    A new leader with a useless unique building and unit (Industrious/Philosophical)
     
  3. Meatbuster

    Meatbuster formerly Robo Kai

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    I thought Ind/Phi will never be added due to potential brokenness? Imagine if Obsolete had such a leader at his disposal...
     
  4. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    There is quite a lengthy thread that discusses the missing IND/PHI leader where many forum members argued that they left it out b/c it would OP. Others insisted it was only due to having too many leaders already and that the combination isn't any more OP than FIN/ORG.

    I'm on the side that says they left it out b/c it would be too powerful in the hands of people like Obsolete.

    Though I can see the potential brokeness, unless you have access to the multiplier resources, you can still easily lose many of the wonders to the AI on higher levels. This kind of leader is much more powerful on the mid-difficulty levels (Prince - Emperor) where (as an IND leader) you can basically grab all the wonders especially if you have access to the multiplier resources.
     
  5. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    That's why I propose bad UU and UB.
     
  6. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    I honestly see UU and UB as bonuses rather than game changing items. Well... that is excluding Praetorians and the Ziggurat lol. Praets for the obvious and Ziggys b/c you can REX much more much earlier as long as you shoot for Priesthood early (which I always do with Gilgamesh).

    Perhaps crappy starting techs as well could make up for this. Like fishing/hunting. The lack of mining means that extra tech to research before accessing slavery/copper/Masonry and no Mysticism for access to Stonehenge. Fishing is a decent food resource if you start on a coast, but it's relatively inexpensive. Hunting gives access to AH, but that offers no real wonders so...
     
  7. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Chieftain

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    I would have put Meiji as organized/protective simply because all the administrative/government reforms introduced speak more for the Organized Trait.

    El Cid seems much more a Charismatic type, leading various military forces to victory, so I would have given Cre/Cha to him.
     
  8. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! ROCKETS GONNA GETCHA

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    Yes, but really, Japan needs a stronger leader, and org/pro sounds underwhelming.
     
  9. Ultimocrat

    Ultimocrat Chieftain

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    FDR could be changed to IND/PHI from IND/ORG -- America has late UU/UB and starting techs that are not particularly conducive to early wonders (no mining or mysticism).
     
  10. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    Yeah, but it seems like they try to keep the leaders close to their historical characteristics and I would definitely not call FDR philosophical.
     
  11. civvver

    civvver Chieftain

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    I don't know if fredrick was industrious himself, but swapping organized for phil in his case doesn't seem a stretch given the industrious reputation of germany.

    Back to the original question, any combo you'd particularly like to try? I'd love cre cha, and especially as japan with samurai. Wow, that'd be a fun civ.
     
  12. JTMacc99

    JTMacc99 That's a paddlin'

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    Protective/Organized could have easily been a useful civ and quite an annoying one in the hands of the AI. Giving it to the Spanish is an even better idea. Half-price Citadels (and imagine if he had stone as well) and half price courthouses would be a really nice combination to put a dent in the normally difficult to deal with economic issues from the protective leaders.

    It would seem like the way to go would be to head straight for engineering, start spamming castles (and then trebs.) Hard to say where to go next, but ideally some focus and trades will put Guilds and Gunpowder in your hands fairly quickly, and that would give you something to send along with your stack of trebs. After that, it's probably a matter of whether or not you could swing around and get Liberalism to determine whether or not you should just go directly for chemistry and steel (for the win!) or if you can pop Nationalism and then research Military Tradition for the UU.


    As for the other two combos. Ind/Phi does seem to be a little overpowered. They'd need to put in some sort of ban on stone and/or marble in the coding.

    I would love to play a CRE/CHA leader. Lots of things would be easier with that combination.
     
  13. CHEESE!

    CHEESE! ROCKETS GONNA GETCHA

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    What? Freddy is Phi/Org... swapping Org for Phi would make him Phi/Phi... Interesting..
     
  14. blitzkrieg1980

    blitzkrieg1980 Octobrist

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    I'd say PHI is much more of a stretch for FDR than CHM or AGG even (given that he was just itchin to get into ol' WW2).
     
  15. Ultimocrat

    Ultimocrat Chieftain

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  16. Ultimocrat

    Ultimocrat Chieftain

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    Lenin could be PHI/IND, but that makes 4 Russian leaders. Also, starting with mining is probably too strong.
     
  17. Feyaria

    Feyaria Chieftain

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    Creative/Charismatic:
    Monuments are a waste for a creative leader (borders are expanding fast enough), but charismatic needs them for +1 :). I think thats the reason why there is no CRE/CHA leader.

    But there is also Ethiopia: creative leader with a monument UB......


    Industrious/Philosophical:
    Its clearly overpowered.. i played such a leader in a mod, and got a realy crazy capital.. with lots of wonders and lots of settled GPs...


    Organized/Protective:
    Nothing against such a leader, there are enough civs with only one leader, so they could have added one with these two traits.
     
  18. DigitalBoy

    DigitalBoy Chieftain

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    Creative and Charismatic are two powerful early game traits, but they look like they'd work kind of awkwardly together. A big bonus to playing Creative is not having to build monuments, but you need them for Charismatic's second :).

    It might still be a potentially useful trait combo, but I never enjoy building monuments as a creative leader (probably why I've never given Zara much playtime in spite of everything else about him being amazing).
     
  19. admtanaka

    admtanaka Chieftain

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    I don't understand the argument that a IND/PHI leader would be overpowered. Who cares? All the leaders aren't equal anyway. This game has adjustable difficulty levels! If I want to stomp the AI, I can choose any other number of options to tip the scale in my favor.
     
  20. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    IND/PHI would certainly make OCC much easier.
     

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