The Three Missing Leader Trait Combos

As has been noted, an IND/PHI leader would be ridiculously strong in a OCC context and would ensure you can dominate economically on very limited land (other economic traits scale more with size so you still have to expand to get the most out of them) and makes all sorts of gamebreaking gambits faster and easier. Ultra-early Pyramids is tame, very fast Apostolic Palace victory comes to mind and there are probably ridiculous gambits out there that aren't even worth considering without that combination.

PRO/ORG would be very interesting; not overpowered but a combination I'd gladly play. ICS with an eye to abuse drafted Rifles and heavy focus on espionage seems strong.

Not too excited about CRE/CHA myself, but it would give us more breathing room in the early game which is great on higher levels.

 

May I suggest Hitler as IND/PHI leader?

As for CRE/CHA - as CHA you need monuments for extra but CRE removes the need to build monuments.

 

I wouldn't call a fascist philosophical, they tend to be somewhat narrow minded . Charismatic instead? I'd also think he was more of an aggressive person than a builder.

 

Hehe PHI hitler is a joke. Somehow I still think hitler isn't a leader to put into this game yet, but then again Stalin is also in the game.... Anyways hitler would be AGG/CHA or AGG/IMP if I had to give him traits, but there allready are leaders with those traits.

IND/PHI is a dream combo. Too good to be true I guess, but I wouldnt mind if it was in the game. I probably would avoid that leader just like I avoid JC and HC as they almost feel like cheating.

The other 2 trait combos would be great to see in game.

 

This could be compensated for with a decent early UU/UB... although most of the nations with decet early UUs/UBs already have two or even 3 leaders. Maybe a second Sumerian?

 

You ruined my plan. My idea was to persuade you that Hitler would be IND/PHI and than use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_hitlerum to persuade you that IND/PHI leader shouldn't be in the game.

 

Unless you think that Mein Kampf was a philosophical masterpiece I just don't see PHI for Hitler.

Unless you count his impressive palace that he commissioned (which I heard about on the Discovery channel), I also don't see him as much of a wonder builder. Wonder taker, yes, but not a builder.

AGG/CHA is the best fit for Hitler IMO, and the Wolfshanze mod (and the other various mods that use it as a base) have him as being just that.

NPM

 

I can't see why Pro/Org doesn't exist. Sure, it might be underwhelming but it's still a valid combination of traits. Imo, Hammurabi for instance would work well with this combination and Pro would boost his somewhat of a lackluster UU so it could even see some actual (offensive?) use. You could shift Agg/Org to a second Viking leader, for instance Leif Erickson or some other fabled Viking.

Cre/Cha doesn't seem like a bad combination either. Sure, it might be redundant for a cre leader to build a monument but then again ZY has to build them if he's to get use out of his UB. Furthermore, Charismatic is much more than just the various happiness boosts since it also affects military. Perhaps add a second leader for nations who lack a second leader? I could see nations like Spain, Arabia, Holy Rome or Byzantium benefiting from a leader who's less zealous than their colleague and has traits to support it.

As much as I'd like to see Ind/Phi, it seems that the combination would be too powerful.

 

Well, I heard about "nazi philosophi" at history lessons and Hitler was probably the first leader to understand the role of tanks. Tanks require industrialism so...

 

PHI with Hitler would feel off because of the way game mechanics work...

Frederick may have been a philosophical lightweight himself, but given that he attracted the attention and friendship of several candidates for 'Great Person' status, the trait makes sense in this context. Hitler on the other hand managed to drive quite a few great people away from Germany. If we have him (I think he has no place in the main game, but find it downright amusing that he isn't in scenarios like Road to War. Stupid German censorship), CRE/CHA would actually fit quite well. He had some artistic aspirations (pretensions?) himself, and the traits would fit the themes of propaganda and a policy centered around the concept of 'lebensraum'.

 

oops I mean't swap org for ind. Phill ind

 

But that'd require all of us to be idiots . Using the "tanks require industrialism hence should be industrious" is a very hole filled arguement btw . I'd also say having a philosophy isn't the same as being philosophical. Interesting where a strategy board has gone to hasn't it

 

Anybody else think that Crea/Char is a great SE warmonger trait? Fast border pops, cheap libraries, AND less XP needed for prom AND extra happy!

 

I thought spiritual and philosophical was a great mix. There is a good ramses walkthrough using lots of cycling abusing spiritual. Philo for the GP obviously

 

well ramses is ind/spi mate

 

I know, but I only know of the ramses walkthrough which shows cycling extensively . Mainly the caste for eco to slavery for war production as well as the others.

 

This thread seems dead but just for the fun of it... I will add that a Org/Pro leader would be an interesting choice for an espionage Economy... Fast Courthouse, and Castle. I wanted to try it since I have been experimenting with Espy recently, only to find that... there is no Org/Pro leader. Maybe in a future expansion... Oh well.

Also, I think Protective should be beefed up a little, to make it more attractive. Maybe give Drill I and II + Garrison I and II... Or, All cities produce +1 ... Sort of like Cre except for Espy instead of culture...

 

Gravedig aside, I approve of this thread's endorsement of Meiji and El Cid.

I don't think anyone will argue that Protective needs to be buffed a bit to be on par with…anything, but I don't think doubling its bonuses is the way to go about it since that doesn't fix the problem of the traits being useless 95% of the time (to human players) and essentially just makes it an anti-human-aggression trait, which IMO shouldn't belong to a particular leader or another. Retooling it to give 3-5 experience for each archery/gunpowder unit would be a better compromise IMO.

 

Drill 1+2 and CG1+2 would be overpowered, IMHO. Think about it. Remember that you don't have to be a turtler to use CG or drill promotions.

 

How about bombarded city defenses repair [twice] as fast? (You can replace twice if too over/under powered.)