The Ultimate Evil Cooked Maps: Prepare to DIE!

[drewisfat]

This map is super easy idk what you guys are talking about. I'm steamrolling shaka with elepult. In the middle of the war though there was some weird glitch where the game said an unknown civ completed the statue of liberty.

 

[dohh]

Spoiler :

In my last try, I did this founded Buddhism, did not convert. Let buddhism to spread into Japanese. Oracled CoL, founding conf. I spread conf to Shaka and Monti.

Lets see how it turns out. Im still worried about happenings on other continent. Those crazy techers managed to find Liberalism at 450 ad!! :O

 

[dohh]

This map is super easy idk what you guys are talking about. I'm steamrolling shaka with elepult. In the middle of the war though there was some weird glitch where the game said an unknown civ completed the statue of liberty.

What level You play on? If deity, please share the save...

 

[Gwaja]

If Fippy demonstrates some of his feats, you'll go blind and feel very small. I do for one.

Actually... I want to be blinded by you. ^_^ If anything, your code debugging on this map would be quite entertaining too!

Back on topic, I'm on my 2nd attempt here and this one is probably winnable.

Spoiler :

First attempt i got pre-1000BC DoW from Shaka before i even got Alpha. Most of my units were in the NW fending off waves of barbs so that was an instant loss.

Second attempt Monty spread religion to everyone, I'm pleased with all 3, and there's been no warfare. It's late BCs and I'm assembling a stack of Hwacha and phants, but I'm not sure i have time to play it out

Spoiler :

Hwacha-phant ready to go in the early BCs? That's awesome stuff. I wanted to force the players to use Hwachas in this game, so deliberately the jumbos were placed where they were, in the obvious absence of metals and horses in the immediate vicinity. Of course, with a bit of exploration, the metals can be had but I am sure you would know it by now. ^_^

Mansa, Lizzy and Darius all with 5 gold mines?

Sgotm eats all my Civ brain power currently, Gwaja my dear
You know i will touch all your maps sooner or later thou..!

5 gold mines... hmmm why did I not put those in the BFCs of ALL the AIs in this game? Darn it!! Maybe next time I might do just that! ... or did I really do it and forget? ^_^

And YES, you are obligated to give this a try! Just don't hate me! ^_^

To be honest, as soon as I saw cooked map, though thought was "warmonger sandwich with peaceful AIs on another continent". The best ways to make such a map hard:

- make it reasonably likely for a stable religion on the other continent.
Maybe... maybe not.
- make sure each warmonger is likely to get "land target" to player
Probably....
- make sure the foreign AI has lots of green land and luxuries to grow super large early
OH YES!! ^_^ DEFINITELY!!
- make sure that the AI not nearby not only tech well, but also have similar peaceweights.
ABSOLUTELY!!
- allocate land such that one of the distance civilizations gets impossible huge (box in one AI on a peninsula to make sure another gets 25% land peacefully)
Perhaps not too extreme, but one might have more land to expand to peacefully ... perhaps?

I don't have the micro patience of the old "super deity" players, but there have been some utterly brutal and deliberately unrealistic maps that have been won here .
I don't doubt that one bit!

No, the game I was referring to was much older...IIRC it came from the time I was hosting IU.

Joao is a good candidate for distant AI, as are Zara, Justinian and Cathy. Traditional peacemongers like Mali don't expand quickly enough, and Joao will really gouge science after abusing his expansion bonuses.

The game you are talking about is probably this one!

Immortal University 50: Wang Kon

I'll play as soon as I bother to redo the installation and have it working.

My honorary guests are mandated to play this! A Youtube video would be even better, but that'd be asking a LOT!

This map is super easy idk what you guys are talking about. I'm steamrolling shaka with elepult. In the middle of the war though there was some weird glitch where the game said an unknown civ completed the statue of liberty.

Maybe it wasn't a bug, but for reals? How far into the game are you? I am glad you are having success! Share some screenies with us! ^_^

Spoiler :

In my last try, I did this founded Buddhism, did not convert. Let buddhism to spread into Japanese. Oracled CoL, founding conf. I spread conf to Shaka and Monti.

Lets see how it turns out. Im still worried about happenings on other continent. Those crazy techers managed to find Liberalism at 450 ad!! :O

Spoiler :

Wow... founding a religion on Deity of all levels... and not just one but TWO and an early one at that! Now hopefully Shaka and Monty can dogpile on Tokugawa and maybe you can join in on the fun for diplo bonus?

450 AD Liberalism? Is that normal even on Deity?

Still alive

Spoiler :

Can Hinduism keep us at peace for the eons to come?

Construction next turn, just in case

Seems we have a "Mad Techers Club" on another continent ofc. ofc.

Spoiler :

Hopefully you can teach those warmongers how to war properly. Hwachas need some love in this game! The only downside that I may be afraid of is that you might annoy someone by the ever so familiar "You declared war on our friend!" BS!

And yep, be prepared for the other trio of EVIL AIs... very soon! ^_^

@ Fippy, TMIT, Izuul

You know you want to play. Why resist?

Gwaja will not make a more devilish map if you don't win this one first!

You see... SOMEBODY who has happened to post in this thread, whom I consider my dear friend in this forums, has told me that my maps are easy.... so that gave me the motivation to create some of the more evil ones. I am not gonna name that person because (s)he knows who (s)he is, I am sure, and will get a great laugh out of this one for sure! ^_^

It is my hope that this map comes to be one of the most beloved maps of all times on CFC! ^_^

 

[vranasm]

This map is super easy idk what you guys are talking about. I'm steamrolling shaka with elepult. In the middle of the war though there was some weird glitch where the game said an unknown civ completed the statue of liberty.

this one seriously made my day

 

[pomthom]

This map is super easy idk what you guys are talking about. I'm steamrolling shaka with elepult. In the middle of the war though there was some weird glitch where the game said an unknown civ completed the statue of liberty.

this one seriously made my day

Same here

@drewisfat

Spoiler :

The AP is probably not Hindu but maybe that might have been the only way to go...?

 

[drewisfat]

=
Maybe it wasn't a bug, but for reals? How far into the game are you? I am glad you are having success! Share some screenies with us! ^_^

I don't like to share games when I'm doing stupid stuff and going to lose

But since none of the old super deity players are maybe I'll post to stir up some excitement And yes dohh it's on deity.

 

[drewisfat]

My first attempt:

So as I said earlier I feel very solidly that going for an early religion is the smart move here. With 3 warmongers alone on the continent they're probably not going to found a religion themselves, and a mutual religion could help stave off a bloodbath, and the shrine would actually give me a decent gold payoff, for virtually no effort.

Spoiler :

I chose hinduism because after my borders popped I could work the wine tile with fin. I'm not sure if it's a guaranteed lock, but my theory was this would give me the best odds of founding a religion against deity AIs.

I then followed a tech path I've never done before, because I figured this situation would be the closest I ever got to something that warranted it. (iirc it was poly -> agri -> BW -> wheel -> priesthood -> pottery -> (oracled MW) -> masonry? -> mono ? -> monarchy?!

My thinking was an early DOW would be game over regardless probably, and I wanted myself to get in a solid position for elepult, but I also wanted the infrastructure to be able to support a long drawn out war and massive land acquisition, because I figured Gwaja would do something annoying like give the AIs insane land. I even opted to be risky and delayed archery. I was thinking that Mono would be decent for OR, which would allow me to start cranking out early forges in all my cities, and that monarchy would be necessary to self tech for the happiness and all the wine resources I had.

The aztecs started plotting though, but I wasn't that nervous because I figured they were targeting Shaka.

Spoiler :

But a few turns later something really bad happened. Shaka the ultimate stabber decided 1 turn of plotting was enough warning to give my peaceful civilization

Spoiler :

I decided it might be time to get archery

Shaka takes his two-movers and rushes straight for my capital. QUICK DEPLOY EMERGENCY WARRIOR DEFENSES:

Spoiler :

Then the greatest thing that I think I've ever seen an AI do happened:

Spoiler :

Shaka was all OMG BARBARIAN ARCHER. PUT WAR ON HOLD KILL THIS DUDE.

After killing the archer, he decided before attacking the city to move back to the hill. So he gave me two turns to move in more defenders. He failed to take the city.

Monty finally decided to come to my rescue, and after like 20 turns of plotting he was able to muster a stack that seemed like something Gandhi would put forth on Monarch level

Spoiler :

I eventually made peace with Shaka, but I was really loathe to trade him MW since it was on the way to machinery. I used the downtime to furiously whip out hwachas and elephants. 560 AD.... not exactly an early time for an elepult attack

Shaka, being a mean bully had actually been planning to finish off tiny Korea after the peace treaty. He actually DOWed on me the turn before I was going to DOW on him, so I guess, thanks for saving me the diplo penalty.

Spoiler :

Unfortunately we had conflicting ideas about where to fight our battle. He sent his army at my city and I sent my army to his city. I was all sadface, I liked Pyongyang, and I didn't think an elephant two hawchas and an archer were adequate defense.

But yeah not to fear, AI stupidity knows no bounds, and hey I managed to get a wall up, so Shaka in his infinite wisdom spent two turns bombarding my city, giving me enough time to take his city, and then turn around and murder his stack with my hwachas.

Even with his big city advantage the war was going badly for him after that.

Spoiler :

So I was beating up Shaka, but ultimately what does it matter at this point. It's 1000 AD and I'm hopelessly behind. But at least I'm not going to come in last place

P.S. You see that MASSIVE BARB-RIDDEN ICE PENINSULA YOU HAVE? Thanks a lot Gwaja.

 

[soundjata]

Shaka was all OMG...

Nice attempt!

Spoiler :

While Polytheism gamble is kind of reasonable, I think wasting your precious capitol trees on The Oracle was a mistake. Too much delay on Writing for example.

This is the kind of game where you want to focus (almost solely) on commerce up to a point you can get a decisive advantage on the AI.
Neither Hinduism (heck not even a shrine!) nor an early MC give you this advantage.

Retry?

 

[Manco Capac]

Shaka was all OMG BARBARIAN ARCHER. PUT WAR ON HOLD KILL THIS DUDE.

Of course! C'mon, you know Shaka is all about easy kills. He doesn't care about civilization thingy like growing his empire. He wants spilled blood, that's all.

+9/10 on originality.

Now, win AP.

 

[drewisfat]

Retry what? I am totally going to win this game!!

I don't think Oracle was a bad move at all. I didn't really need writing early, because I purposely (and somewhat fortunately) didn't share borders with anyone very early on. Also I felt very aimless with tech goals in this game. Elepult had a big window for attack, and by my reasoning there wasn't that much incentive to rush it. And after getting construction, without having iron, horses, without good people to tech trade with and without a hope of getting Lib, I was really confused what techs to go for.

And come on tachy I don't AP cheese I'm not sure the map is winnable besides the AP though. The AIs on the starting continent just have too much land (rigged peninsulas), and

Spoiler :

Two of the AIs on the other continent have non-coastal capitals, making it much harder to snipe them after they launch their spaceships

One gimmicky plan might be to throw your initial settler right by an AI, try to choke them, and take their peninsula.

 

[pomthom]

A very cool write up, as usual drewisfat


I'm with Tachy here, go AP

 

[vranasm]

I think this could be interesting challenge even for established AP players... and actually i wouldn't be angry if someone would pull off here win with AP or something.

 

[Gwaja]

@Drewisfat,

Very cool write up! And way to go! ^_^ If you take out Shaka, I think you have a reasonably good chance to win the game.

@vranasm,

I never understood why AP Religious Victory is treated as a second citizen among the forum community. I think it is a valid victory type, and to me, sooner you pull it off, the more impressive. Of course, the method in how you got it within what type of situations the game presented should all be under consideration as well.

 

[vranasm]

@Drewisfat,

Very cool write up! And way to go! ^_^ If you take out Shaka, I think you have a reasonably good chance to win the game.

@vranasm,

I never understood why AP Religious Victory is treated as a second citizen among the forum community. I think it is a valid victory type, and to me, sooner you pull it off, the more impressive. Of course, the method in how you got it within what type of situations the game presented should all be under consideration as well.

it's called a cheese for a reason...

don't want to dwell into it too deep, but the "optimal" way of doing this, is abusing let's say oversight in design of the AP mechanics..

 

[Gwaja]

it's called a cheese for a reason...

don't want to dwell into it too deep, but the "optimal" way of doing this, is abusing let's say oversight in design of the AP mechanics..

There have been quite a bit of discussions about it being called "cheese" so I am aware of the general perceptions here... I still think that given the proper conditions of the game, AP Religious Victory shouldn't be shunned as something inferior.

I, personally, wouldn't pursue it unless the game situation is right to go for it, AND if I no longer have the desire to drag the game on for other types of victories... it certainly isn't as satisfying as Domination, Conquest, or Space. Quite frankly, I like Cultural Victory the least out of all the VCs available.

 

[drewisfat]

I think AP cheese could be significantly fixed by making it so only a major religion could win (like a 30% requirement). The biggest abuse comes from rushing theo, making christianity the religion, but then running hinduism or buddhism or something to make all of those guys happy and vote for you.
But even so I don't find it fun to go for at all. More than any other victory condition, it completely alters and simplifies the game. Even culture at least requires you to "play the game" where you will want to have a strong tech position for most of the game, whereas AP cheese is possible even if you're hopelessly behind in every category. It's much easier to win, but I still wouldn't say it's always necessarily the easiest way to win. The problem is lots of the challenge comes from variables outside of your control, and the solutions are very gimmicky, like caravel-missionary drops and gift cities. Ultimately I'm just not interested in doing it.

More importantly I don't know why people are mentioning the AP in my game. The buddhists built it, not me lol.

 

[Gwaja]

I think AP cheese could be significantly fixed by making it so only a major religion could win (like a 30% requirement). The biggest abuse comes from rushing theo, making christianity the religion, but then running hinduism or buddhism or something to make all of those guys happy and vote for you.
But even so I don't find it fun to go for at all. More than any other victory condition, it completely alters and simplifies the game. Even culture at least requires you to "play the game" where you will want to have a strong tech position for most of the game, whereas AP cheese is possible even if you're hopelessly behind in every category. It's much easier to win, but I still wouldn't say it's always necessarily the easiest way to win. The problem is lots of the challenge comes from variables outside of your control, and the solutions are very gimmicky, like caravel-missionary drops and gift cities. Ultimately I'm just not interested in doing it.

More importantly I don't know why people are mentioning the AP in my game. The buddhists built it, not me lol.

I like the 30% requirement. I think the better solution would be, that if you do not run the religion that AP belongs to, then even if you have the AP in possession, you can't qualify to be the resident or win the game outright via diplomatic victory, unless you switch back to the religion that it belongs to. If there is 1 AI that runs the AP religion, only he then can qualify to become the resident or win diplomatically.... but not you, since you are not running the AP religion.


Side Note: Come on Fippy and TMIT... I know you want to PLAY~~~ ^_^

Side Note #2: I am too embarrassed to share my game experience on Deity on this map, but needless to say that I tried once, and got triple DoWed before 1000 BC, and died....

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm an old over the hill veteran. I'll get wrecked.

#takesemperorsave

 

[drewisfat]

Alright I just played up to about 1700 AD. I'm too tired to post now, but after I sleep and finish my six-hour drive home, I'll share what's happened in my game so far