The Ultimate Map Thread

[Eltain]

Before I embark upon the (fairly non-painful) quest, has anyone added NK-style triangle mountains to the earth maps currently in use?

 

[Devercia]

@kkmo, just some geography points. I'm probubly being way to critical about this though.

Lakes from when rivers flow into basins. Eventually those rivers cause the lake to overflow, forming a continuation of the river, presumably till it meets the see. If evaporation is enough to keep these lakes from forming an outflow, they will be salt lakes, unless they are of sufficient size. The lake connected to the Milkweed River would probubly be the most likely to be a salt lake due to it having no hope of an outlet. It would also receive very little rain, and what rain it did recieve would blow in from the NW.

The Plains underneath Northwild would also be very high elevation. The terminus river nearby does not make logical sense.

The rivers near the Mirertia gulf are also a bit wonky. It would make sense to consider the land near the gulf as a very tall and sudden cliff, otherwise the rivers near by would empty into it instead of taking a many-mile detour, through a mountain pass, to the sea.

This map was inspired by yurop, wasn't it

Overanalysis for the lose/win?

 

[kkmo]

Lakes from when rivers flow into basins. Eventually those rivers cause the lake to overflow, forming a continuation of the river, presumably till it meets the see. If evaporation is enough to keep these lakes from forming an outflow, they will be salt lakes, unless they are of sufficient size.

That's nice. But you're assuming all rivers are labeled and shown on the map, which as I've said a couple times, they are not. Smaller rivers are not shown because there would be too many of them to show, and in fact this is huge in terms of getting players to define the land they play within more than what is simply shown on a map.

The lake connected to the Milkweed River would probubly be the most likely to be a salt lake due to it having no hope of an outlet. It would also receive very little rain, and what rain it did recieve would blow in from the NW.

Why, necessarily, especially given the setting? There is much rainfall in the mountains, which pours down rivers into a massive basin below, forming Lake Horace. Any overflow would form a smaller river and head through Lorenathia and into the sea; Lorenathia, which I mentioned somewhere, is filled with small rivers and lakes. It is a remarkably fertile region. I was thinking irrigation, as well.

The Plains underneath Northwild would also be very high elevation. The terminus river nearby does not make logical sense.

Again, why? The Endioch region is one of the highest regions in the map - it is far higher than the plains in the North Wild. The river, as I saw it, was drying near the end due to an unsuitable amount of precipitation and initial down-flow. It "tapers", if you will. I was thinking another reason for this could be due to the over-irrigation of the plains.

The rivers near the Mirertia gulf are also a bit wonky. It would make sense to consider the land near the gulf as a very tall and sudden cliff, otherwise the rivers near by would empty into it instead of taking a many-mile detour, through a mountain pass, to the sea.

So now gravity only moves westward? As with other small forests, rivers, etc. - hills are not adequately labeled, because they are implied. Perhaps the western part of the Sunleaf is a bit higher in elevation than the eastern side, so the Kelora River does not flow upward and through hills (thus defying gravity), but instead flows north, into a small basin, presumably creating another small river which flows into the Solamoan River.

This map was inspired by yurop, wasn't it

Any fantasy map not inspired by real life is utter crap, in my opinion. They tend to be too abnormal and all over the place for my personal tastes.

 

[North King]

Any fantasy map not inspired by real life is utter crap, in my opinion. They tend to be too abnormal and all over the place for my personal tastes.

Really.

Because I never base my fantasy maps off of real maps (except for biomes or general geographic features), and they usually seem to turn out fine. Fantasy maps don't have to be based off of Earth maps -- they just have to be designed with a knowledge of plate tectonics in mind.

 

[kkmo]

Really.

Because I never base my fantasy maps off of real maps (except for biomes or general geographic features), and they usually seem to turn out fine. Fantasy maps don't have to be based off of Earth maps -- they just have to be designed with a knowledge of plate tectonics in mind.

"except for biomes or general geographic features" is pretty huge, North King. Many fantasy maps are lacking in these areas. Hence this:

inspired by real life

Real life means just that: biomes, general geographic features, etc. Also, inspired means to keep those items in mind when designing a map or world. Never once did I say, "based off of a real map" or even "based on real life".

Fantasy maps don't have to be based off of Earth maps -- they just have to be designed with a knowledge of plate tectonics in mind.

Again, never said they had to be based off of Earth maps...

edit: In fact, if I were to prefer fantasy maps based on Earth maps, there go some of my favorite fantasy worlds. It's good to form a distinction between "inspired by" and "based on / off of".

 

[North King]

Yo, you basically said it was "inspired by Europe", which, having looked at the map, seems to mean it shares the same basic geographic features. No need to fly off the handle; it's a reasonable assumption (especially when it was a two sentence post and hardly one flinging invectives your way).

And "biomes or geographic features" means stuff like, "Oh, if I have a coastline at 30 degrees latitude with a trench next to it and a mountain range on the other side, it'll be caught in a double rainshadow blah blah blah blah."

 

[kkmo]

Devercia said it was inspired by Europe. I myself said that fantasy maps not inspired by real life are crap. No handles are flying off - they are stable and well put. I just don't like fantasy maps that think they can do away with some of the most basic features of a "working" world, which you named in your previous post. They'll often claim magic as an explanation, but this feels like a cop-out. I guess it depends, though. Some fantasy maps don't need to be in a working world if they are used for D&D or something (but I might prefer them to be).

And to Devercia: I never said "thanks" in my post before - but thank you! I am definitely not an expert on maps, so I appreciate that kind of feedback.

edit: Oh and North King, based on your NES, it seems that having a "working" world is of utmost importance. I think it was Thlayli who said your NES should be considered historical fiction or alternate history rather than fantasy. Either way, it must be nice to have a working world, and I can only wish mine was 100% there.

I don't know what about my post seemed defensive in tone to you, but I bolded those words to form a distinction between them.

 

[Devercia]

I didn't mean to start a controversy

That's nice. But you're assuming all rivers are labeled and shown on the map, which as I've said a couple times, they are not. Smaller rivers are not shown because there would be too many of them to show, and in fact this is huge in terms of getting players to define the land they play within more than what is simply shown on a map.

Your premise is that the outflow river would be smaller, it would be of equal size as all of the inflow rivers combined. Rivers almost always get bigger the closer they get to the sea unless they are in an arid region or are heavily diverted by artificial means. Lakes also tend to be confluence points for rivers. It is possible for a lake to have several outflow streams, but because of the nature of erosion, it usually just gouges out the first one to form to the appropriate size.

There is one possibility where this might make sense, if the rivers actually are outflow rivers forking into unmarked rivers. However, only a few rivers qualify, specifically those that are not going into ( and I presume flowing from) mountain ranges.

Why, necessarily, especially given the setting? There is much rainfall in the mountains, which pours down rivers into a massive basin below, forming Lake Horace. Any overflow would form a smaller river and head through Lorenathia and into the sea; Lorenathia, which I mentioned somewhere, is filled with small rivers and lakes. It is a remarkably fertile region. I was thinking irrigation, as well.

I can't say much for the setting as I am too much a newb to the site to have really read it. Consider me an uninvited walk-in

At the risk of crossing the boundaries of my own understanding, I had made the assumption that A) this is the N. Hemisphere, and therefore the seas convect counter-clockwise. B) Weather systems would flow from the western side of the map into the center, following their convection patterns. C) the world is on a similar tilt to earth. D) the map area is the size of Europe, assuming the world is the size of earth (deserts have a pattern of separating subtropics from tropics, giving a idea of how big the map is) E) The mountains surrounding the lake are large enough to cause an orthographic rain shadow. F) the mountains depicted are of high elevations and not simply just rough terrain.

Plenty of room for you to shoot that whole idea down

Again, why? The Endioch region is one of the highest regions in the map - it is far higher than the plains in the North Wild. The river, as I saw it, was drying near the end due to an unsuitable amount of precipitation and initial down-flow. It "tapers", if you will. I was thinking another reason for this could be due to the over-irrigation of the plains.

That is an excellent reason for why it would end. The Colorado River does that.

River routes, not mountain ranges, are the best indicator of elevation. You did mention unmarked rivers, but of those present, there are several suggestions that this region is a high-plain. The Milkweed flows away from it. Given that the Milkweed is flowing into a basin, it being among mountains might suggest it is a high elevation lake. This would all be moot if the Milkweed were an outflow river. If it is not, then the plain is higher than the lake.

The Moldevin River also shows a preference for flowing close to and around the nearby mountains. The only reason for this would be if there were an upward slope towards the north. The land between Moldevin and Hyoenei rivers would need to be higher as well in order to keep the Hyoenei from merging with the Moldevin. The spur of the near by mountains might suggest this.

Now I know I'm overdoing it

 

[kkmo]

Thanks for the reply, Devercia. No controversy at all. Any input = good input, usually. Yours is certainly good.

Rivers almost always get bigger the closer they get to the sea unless they are in an arid region or are heavily diverted by artificial means.

This is important when looking at Lorenathia or other members of the former Senathian Empire.

Lakes also tend to be confluence points for rivers. It is possible for a lake to have several outflow streams, but because of the nature of erosion, it usually just gouges out the first one to form to the appropriate size.

There is one possibility where this might make sense. If the rivers actually are outflow rivers are forking into unmarked rivers. However, only a few rivers qualify, specifically those that are not going into ( and I presume flowing from) mountain ranges.

I guarantee you lakes as large as the ones on my map are not fresh-water lakes. Don't know if this helps in your understanding or just makes things worse.

At the risk of crossing the boundaries of my own understanding, I had made the assumption that A) this is the N. Hemisphere, and therefore the seas convect counter-clockwise. B) Weather systems would flow from the western side of the map into the center, following their convection patterns. C) the world is on a similar tilt to earth. D) the map area is the size of Europe, assuming the world is the size of earth (deserts have a pattern of separating subtropics from tropics, giving a idea of how big the map is) E) The mountains surrounding the lake are large enough to cause an orthographic rain shadow. F) the mountains depicted are of high elevations and not simply just rough terrain.

I've barely thought about it, really. But I do know that this planet is much, much smaller than Earth. This region is 1/5 - 1/6 of the total area of the world map. Europe does not take up nearly that percentage of our world. Again, this map is not based off of Europe, only vaguely inspired by it.

River routes, not mountain ranges, are the best indicator of elevation. You did mention unmarked rivers, but of those present, there are several suggestions that this region is a high-plain. The Milkweed flows away from it. Given that the Milkweed is flowing into a basin, it being among mountains might suggest it is a high elevation lake. This would all be moot if the Milkweed were an outflow river. If it is not, then the plain is higher than the lake.

The Moldevin River also shows a preference for flowing close to and around the nearby mountains. The only reason for this would be if there were an upward slope towards the north. The land between Moldevin and Hyoenei rivers would need to be higher as well in order to keep the Hyoenei from merging with the Moldevin. The spur of the near by mountains might suggest this.

I think you are looking at the map as too much of an elevation-map. Elevations are not properly indicated, obviously. Major mountain ranges, rivers, and forests are labeled and shown. Every little hill, slight change in elevation, etc., is not. It is meant to by a symbolic and political map moreso than a spot-on physical map.

The Milkweed R. is flowing away from the plain, but only because the direction its flowing has lower elevation than the plains; Lake Horace occupies a large basin which, in my mind, is a lot lower than pretty much anywhere in that region of the map. The Noldevine, similarly, flows downward and around, snaking through a hilly forest. An upward slope in the plains does not mean a river cannot flow through it; it depends on where that slope begins and what it is "upward" in comparison to. The region between the Noldevine and the Hyoenei is largely hilly; the region around the Endioch is very high and is certainly higher than the plains in which the Hyoenei R. runs through. Similarly, there are a lot of hills and even a large mountain north of the Koani, which creates the somewhat strange flow of the Wilerioch R.

Given that the Milkweed is flowing into a basin, it being among mountains might suggest it is a high elevation lake. This would all be moot if the Milkweed were an outflow river. If it is not, then the plain is higher than the lake.

Just because the plain is higher than Lake Horace, doesn't mean Hyoenei has to run downward into that plain as well. The lake is most certainly low elevation, and the Hyoenei is coming from a completely different mountain range much further east.

I hope we are looking at the same map(s). I am looking in the Sekai II thread - not at the one I posted here. Though I don't think they are all that different geographically.

 

[Devercia]

That's pretty much everything.