The very many questions-not-worth-their-own-thread question thread XXXI

[Synobun]

That's the worst advice imaginable. I usually go on CFC when I need advice or to argue politics. I can pick and choose a discussion, insert myself precisely where I want to be and also have as much time as I want to make responses.

Of the sentences to take to heart from my message, the last two were not the intended ones.

 

[Mouthwash]

Fine, I get it, you don't have to be an extrovert to have hours of conversation with somebody.* I'm just concerned about improving my own social life.

*You totally do, though.

 

[Synobun]

Fine, I get it, you don't have to be an extrovert to have hours of conversation with somebody.* I'm just concerned about improving my own social life.

*You totally do, though.

An inability to care or be interested in the thoughts and ambitions of another human being is not an extroversion vs. introversion issue, it's a sociopath issue. Is it truly so inconceivable that you may be interested in someone and ask questions about them? The answers to these questions which would then lead to further discussion?

Like your example scenario. She wants to be a therapist and you careen to a halt. Why? Ask her what she wants to specialize in. Why does she want to be a therapist? What interests her most? Do any of her experiences bear relevance to an experience of yours? What school is she going to? What's the school known for? Have you gone to that school? What is something within the psychology field that has interested her lately? Ask her about it. Why is that so interesting? How does it work? What are the implications of this study or discovery?

If she gives a solid answer to each of those questions, that's at least two to three hours right there. That's without any back-and-forth.

If you don't talk or she doesn't talk, then yeah, hour long talks aren't gonna happen. Takes two to tango.

 

[The_J]

Yeah, basically that. Sometimes it clicks, and you can talk to someone for hours. And sometimes you can't.
I've not asked out girls who I found highly attractive because I couldn't get a conversation going, and I've asked out some who I initially only found moderately attractive, because it turned out that I could easily talk to them for 1h without noticing.

If you need some ideas what to talk to...depends on the setting.
I'm at an university. One of the first things to ask after where someone is from is to ask what they're studying. Either it's something similar, then you can talk about what interests you, or them, or it is totally different, then you ask for details. Eitherways you can ask why they picked it. Or why they picked this city (if they are from elsewhere), or what they recommend in this city (if you are from elsewhere). If it's someone from a different country, then ask them how they like your country, if you've been to theirs then talk about it, and if not, where they'd recommend to go.
EDIT: Basically ask anything. Then there are 2 options: You can relate to the answer, is something you know, you like, then you talk about it, what you like about it, and ask her what especially she likes about it. If it's something different, what you cannot relate to, then ask her to explain it, and tell you what she likes about it. Then you need to try to find something, where you again have the option to talk a bit more, but sometimes a hard cut is necessary to just switch topics, if you really can't find anything.
EDIT2: For example, tonight I'll go to a party, at a public place, but one guy I know is celebrating his birthday there. If I meet someone I don't now, the start will be: Do you know X? Yes, how do you know him? Same study/country? No, do you know anyone who knows him? No, any specific reason you came here, or just random? Oh, same study? Are you also interest in Y? Same country? Never been there, what's the nicest thing there? Ah, Z knows him. Do you maybe also know A and B? Ah, just random. Who dragged you here? (latin party) Do you like to dance? Do you know how to dance this?
etc etc etc
EDIT3: To have a nice flirt, it'll be necessary to poke fun at the girl. Not only though. It needs to be an up and a down, with compliments, but with teasing also. Finding the right level for that is a bit more advanced, but comes also with time, and same as for the questions to ask, you'll also get a repertoire of things to make fun about them.

That's normally the starters for me for a conversation. Normally I don't talk randomly to people, can more happen that I'm dancing with someone (requires appropriate music and dancing skills), then these questions are enough to figure out if there's a connection, and are enough to bridge the time of a dance.

 

[sophie]

What does that mean? I can never get out of 'interview mode' and so I run out of things to say very quickly.

This means you aren't hitting on a topic that you both are interested in or aren't transitioning that topic into a conversation. For example, the other night I was at a party chatting up a girl. We were going back and forth for a bit talking about the standard interests. It was a college party, so you start off with what are you studying (psychology), she asked me what I studied (history), where are you from, etc.. Then she brought up that she's Armenian and that Armenian is her first language and still what she speaks in the house. I mention that I speak German, and she says she studied German in high school, but has forgotten most-all of it. I ask her about her experiences growing up speaking Armenian. I briefly tell an anecdote about my mom's best friend and her family - her friend has a doctorate in German, married a German man, and rose her three children speaking German in the house. And from that her children have had an interesting relationship with their native language; at different stages of their lives they've either hated that they speak German because it's weird and foreign, or they've loved it because it's made them unique and interesting. She begins to talk about growing up speaking Armenian, and that what I described sounds very much like her experiences with the language. From there we segued into bilingual households, whether we'd raise our respective children speaking multiple languages, philosophies of language education, etc.

This is what I mean by asking interesting questions. We started off in an "interview stage" where we're bouncing facts about ourselves back and forth. She mentions something that interests me. I ask a thought provoking follow-up question, and suddenly we've transitioned into a conversation.

Funny, girls hardly seem to ever say anything to me. I don't think I'm ugly and I don't have a weird hairstyle or clothes, so clearly something about my personality is putting them off.

It's really impossible to say without seeing you and hearing you talk with people. My best guess is that it's one of two things. One is body language. So much of success in the dating scene comes from confidence. If you're upbeat and content/confident in yourself that will come off and people will pick up on it. That's what Hygro and I mean when we say good things happen when you put out good vibes and go where they take you. It's also why people encourage you to go to the gym or buy a new wardrobe when you're getting back into the dating scene. It's nothing to do with how you physically appear, and everything to do with what you think about yourself. When you feel confident in yourself people will pick up on that and want to talk to you. When you feel self-conscious or hunched-over or leering, or freaking out about why people won't talk to you, they'll pick up on that too. Put out good vibes.

Two is conversation. Either you're talking too much about a topic your interlocutor has zero interest in and you've steamrolled all attempts they've made to move the conversation onto something more fruitful. Or the way you're talking about a topic makes you (unintentionally) come across like a standoffish, sneering prick (a problem I've had at times in the past). Or you're just not giving anything in the conversation. You aren't matching the vibes the girl is putting out, you aren't asking good questions, you aren't contributing at all to the conversation. She's trying. You don't seem to be. She's out.

When you go to parties/gatherings/whatever: do people come up to talk to you? Are you struggling to get anybody to engage at all? Or are people engaging but then walking away after like five minutes? If it's the former it probably has to do with Thing One. If it's the latter, it's probably something to do with Thing Two.

My first conversation with my recent... crush... had me doing all the talking. I know this and it isn't helping.

There's nothing wrong with being talkative per se. It comes down more to being able to read the room and gauge your interlocutor's interest. I tend to be a person who talks a lot, but I'm generally pretty good at identifying when the person I'm talking to is engaged in what I'm saying and wants to hear more, and when I'm just boring them with information and should change the subject or back off and let them say something. It's not so much that you need to memorize some topics to feed to your crush, but rather that you need to learn how to feed off the energy of the person you're speaking with. It's about reading body language and knowing when to go forward and when to back off or change tack. Btw, I know you don't drink, but this is something bars are really good for. You'll always meet interesting people (men and women) at bars, and they're great places to have low-stakes chats. I wouldn't say that bars made me better at being a conversationalist, but they definitely made me better at being more open and more confident in initiating conversation and breaking the ice.

I have no idea what you mean by good or interesting. I asked a girl what she was studying psychology for, and she said she was considering being a therapist. What would I say to keep the conversation going? I don't know anything about psychology or therapy and thus can't commentate in any meaningful way.

Ok. So if you don't know anything about psychology or therapy you can do one of two things. You can pass on that topic and move on, trying to find something else you have in common. Standard topics would be hobbies, where they're from, tv shows, music, movies, etc. Or you can start asking questions. You don't know anything about psychology. Great! Now's a good time to learn! Ask about why she wants to be a psychiatrist. Ask if there's any specialty she's interested in focusing on. Ask some basic questions about how psychology works, and what it is. To be intelligent is to have a natural intellectual curiosity and an innate interest in learning about things and how they work. Use that. Let your natural curiosity lead into conversation.

There's literally no advice here, dude. You might as well say "spin the pedals clockwise with your feet" to teach me how to ride a bike.

Well yeah. You can't explain how to ride a bike. Learning how to ride a bike is literally just developing a kinetic understanding that as long as you maintain enough momentum you can't fall over. It can only come through experience. Conversation is the same. At the end of the day it's just a matter of getting enough of a feel for it - through constant practice - to know when you've hit on gold and when you're just spinning your wheels. It's something you can only learn through doing.

i.e. you'll be alone forever because no one is compatible with you. (I know that's not what you mean but it's clearly a corollary of this.)

Uh, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. It's actually the exact opposite. When you get onto the dating scene you're going to constantly be finding yourself meeting people you think you've made a connection with. That first night was magical and you chatted for hours. Only to realize two weeks later that that first night was a façade, in which both of you had your flirting game particularly on point that night. And you can only keep that up for so long. So it doesn't work out. But once in awhile you'll find that it wasn't a façade at all and the two of you totally work. Those are the ones that transition into deep, long-term connections (assuming there isn't some other timing-related thing that fudgs it all up). Getting good at dating really all boils down to learning how to identify early on when the connection is deep and when it's superficial. And that takes a ton of practice. I've had the real connection side of things a couple times in my life. They're super great to be in. I've had a ton of duds too though. There was one girl I dated for 6 months before the two of us realized (at nearly exactly the same time) that we were totally incompatible.

 

[cardgame]

If it clicks, it clicks. I'm definitely not extroverted but can and have spent hours talking to one person about anything and everything and nothing.

 

[Lohrenswald]

It's not awkwardness I'm concerned about, it's what you could possibly fill hours of conversation with.

jokes

 

[Mouthwash]

An inability to care or be interested in the thoughts and ambitions of another human being is not an extroversion vs. introversion issue, it's a sociopath issue. Is it truly so inconceivable that you may be interested in someone and ask questions about them? The answers to these questions which would then lead to further discussion?

Not for hours on end, no. I have ADHD, so that may be part of the problem.

It's really impossible to say without seeing you and hearing you talk with people. My best guess is that it's one of two things. One is body language. So much of success in the dating scene comes from confidence. If you're upbeat and content/confident in yourself that will come off and people will pick up on it. That's what Hygro and I mean when we say good things happen when you put out good vibes and go where they take you. It's also why people encourage you to go to the gym or buy a new wardrobe when you're getting back into the dating scene. It's nothing to do with how you physically appear, and everything to do with what you think about yourself. When you feel confident in yourself people will pick up on that and want to talk to you. When you feel self-conscious or hunched-over or leering, or freaking out about why people won't talk to you, they'll pick up on that too. Put out good vibes.

Two is conversation. Either you're talking too much about a topic your interlocutor has zero interest in and you've steamrolled all attempts they've made to move the conversation onto something more fruitful. Or the way you're talking about a topic makes you (unintentionally) come across like a standoffish, sneering prick (a problem I've had at times in the past). Or you're just not giving anything in the conversation. You aren't matching the vibes the girl is putting out, you aren't asking good questions, you aren't contributing at all to the conversation. She's trying. You don't seem to be. She's out.

When you go to parties/gatherings/whatever: do people come up to talk to you? Are you struggling to get anybody to engage at all? Or are people engaging but then walking away after like five minutes? If it's the former it probably has to do with Thing One. If it's the latter, it's probably something to do with Thing Two.

It's both. At gatherings I literally never get approached, and whenever I manage to strike up a conversation with anyone (regardless of how friendly they are to me) it lasts a few minutes at most.

Btw, I know you don't drink, but this is something bars are really good for. You'll always meet interesting people (men and women) at bars, and they're great places to have low-stakes chats. I wouldn't say that bars made me better at being a conversationalist, but they definitely made me better at being more open and more confident in initiating conversation and breaking the ice.

I really hate public gatherings and parties (I'm talking fiery hate). I'm not an extrovert and I don't feed off of social interaction. Ideally I'd talk to a girl alone, but it's pretty much impossible to find yourself in that situation.

Ok. So if you don't know anything about psychology or therapy you can do one of two things. You can pass on that topic and move on, trying to find something else you have in common. Standard topics would be hobbies, where they're from, tv shows, music, movies, etc. Or you can start asking questions. You don't know anything about psychology. Great! Now's a good time to learn! Ask about why she wants to be a psychiatrist. Ask if there's any specialty she's interested in focusing on. Ask some basic questions about how psychology works, and what it is. To be intelligent is to have a natural intellectual curiosity and an innate interest in learning about things and how they work. Use that. Let your natural curiosity lead into conversation.

Yes, I know how this works, I just don't like it. I don't find shows, music or movies interesting topics, I don't care about psychology (in fact I hold the field in contempt). It's possible that I'm just not finding a girl with similar interests, but I don't know how I can. The only kinds of girls in bars are those I probably have nothing in common with already, so your advice would just make my dating life worse.

There was one girl I dated for 6 months before the two of us realized (at nearly exactly the same time) that we were totally incompatible.

I'd like to date for six hours.

If it clicks, it clicks. I'm definitely not extroverted but can and have spent hours talking to one person about anything and everything and nothing.

Nah, just means you're extroverted and bad at introspection.

jokes

Oh yes, I forgot. Another one of my winning traits is a complete inability to make people laugh (I was the class clown in sixth grade, I was just so unfunny half the class despised me and the other half felt sorry for me).

 

[Lohrenswald]

aight so I kinda "don't believe in" extroverts/introverts but I'mma make this hot take anyways:

introverts are more comfortable with long discussions than extroverts

because an introvert would be happy to engage in any topic that he cares about, and like to tell everything he knows
meanwhile, an extrovert would occupy much of his concentration with his surroundings, and fear how others react.

introvert=/=shy

 

[cardgame]

Nah, just means you're introverted and bad at introspection.

Well that doesn't go against what I said

 

[Synobun]

Yes, I know how this works, I just don't like it. I find shows, music or movies interesting topics, I don't care about psychology (in fact I hold the field in contempt). It's possible that I'm just not finding a girl with similar interests, but I don't know how I can. The only kinds of girls in bars are those I probably have nothing in common with already, so your advice would just make my dating life worse.

Idk man maybe stop trying to get laid by women you indirectly hold contempt for

 

[Mouthwash]

Well that doesn't go against what I said

I meant extroverted, sorry.

Idk man maybe stop trying to get laid by women you indirectly hold contempt for

How do I find women I admire, then? I won't be able to go to university for at least a year, probably longer.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

To the extroverts on here: how exactly do you engage girls (or even guys) in several hours of conversation? I see this happening all the time, but I've never been able to reach the five minute mark.

And yet we've engaged in hours of posting. Arguing, to be sure, but it was still a form of conversation. (And no, I don't want to go back to that particular argument.)

Is it the quantity you're more concerned with, or the quality? Some conversations that are only 3 minutes long can have a long-term impact on a person's life, and others that last hours could be so superficial that you can't remember them the next day.

It's not awkwardness I'm concerned about, it's what you could possibly fill hours of conversation with.

Think of how dialogue works in a story. Stories are rarely 100% dialogue (I have seen some, but they take a lot of concentration to read). People do things as they talk. So I hope you're thinking of a long conversation you can have while doing other things - having a meal, casually watching a movie, playing a board game (this is my favorite accompaniment to a conversation), and so on.

It's easy to talk for hours if your partner shares your interest in a subject. You've put days into talking to us. Just pretend the girl is someone you disagree with on CFC.

That's the worst advice imaginable. I usually go on CFC when I need advice or to argue politics. I can pick and choose a discussion, insert myself precisely where I want to be and also have as much time as I want to make responses.

Just look my entry to this thread here (the very last post). Is that how you recall meeting your girlfriend? Information-dumping about obscure topics?

We were having an argument that was at least a fair bit of talking past each other, because we each know what we meant, but the communication just wasn't there. I was really not in a good mood when I decided to exit that conversation.

But the sort of conversation you're looking for isn't the same as an argument in a political thread in OT (I hope). I occasionally discussed politics with guys at science fiction conventions, but (almost) never with any who were a boyfriend or in my other groups of friends. The only time any serious political discussion came up was brief, after the Charlottetown Accord referendum in 1995. His view was opposite to mine, and he asked me point-blank: "So how did you vote in the referendum?". I answered, "With a pencil." His girlfriend started to laugh, he gave me a slightly dirty look (he was in the mood for a discussion), but I thought the best course of action was to avoid any possible unpleasantness. And I did tell the truth; we use pencil-and-paper ballots in federal votes here.

I can never get out of 'interview mode' and so I run out of things to say very quickly.

A conversation isn't like an interrogation. An interrogation usually requires brief answers that don't lead to further discussion. I'm going to assume you've heard of open and closed questions? Both people in the conversations should ask open questions, to encourage the other person to expand on their answers, if they want to.

Fine, I get it, you don't have to be an extrovert to have hours of conversation with somebody.* I'm just concerned about improving my own social life.

No, you really don't. I used to describe myself as someone with "terminal shyness." I'm still not anywhere near an extrovert. But years of baby steps and the occasional "go for it/nothing ventured, nothing gained" times have really helped.

jokes

A sense of humor, yes. But a standup or sitcom routine? Nope. A clever pun or quip that fits with the conversation or activity is something I appreciate. I wouldn't know about other women, though.

Not for hours on end, no. I have ADHD, so that may be part of the problem.

Then maybe you're trying to do too much at once. You've mentioned having trouble even with just 5 minutes. What is the longest conversation you've had that you've been comfortable with?

I find shows, music or movies interesting topics...

Discussing them, watching/listening, or both?

Some of the most interesting guys I ever met were actors, singers, and dancers, and we met when I worked backstage in the theatre. Maybe some sort of community activity or volunteering (in situations where you're not around a lot of people) might help you meet girls with similar interests.

Oh yes, I forgot. Another one of my winning traits is a complete inability to make people laugh (I was the class clown in sixth grade, I was just so unfunny half the class despised me and the other half felt sorry for me).

You do have a sense of humor. I could tell, in that Iron Pen story you wrote. Maybe it's hard to crack a joke in conversation, but don't say you can't make people appreciate your humor.


Finally, I'm going to say that Owen Glyndwr has given you a great deal of excellent advice and suggestions here. It may seem like a lot to take in at once, but at least think about it. That's my recommendation.

 

[Lohrenswald]

A sense of humor, yes. But a standup or sitcom routine? Nope. A clever pun or quip that fits with the conversation or activity is something I appreciate. I wouldn't know about other women, though.

I mean I guess you'd hate talking with me, but I can do it for hours

 

[Arakhor]

Half my conversations include terrible puns and all of mine include meandering conversations with random, half-remembered facts thrown in.

 

[Mouthwash]

No, you really don't. I used to describe myself as someone with "terminal shyness." I'm still not anywhere near an extrovert. But years of baby steps and the occasional "go for it/nothing ventured, nothing gained" times have really helped.

Did these involve bars and public gatherings?

A sense of humor, yes. But a standup or sitcom routine? Nope. A clever pun or quip that fits with the conversation or activity is something I appreciate. I wouldn't know about other women, though.

A lot of these conversation involve the girls spending more time laughing than talking. Maybe they're attracted to the guy anyway and just fake it?

Then maybe you're trying to do too much at once. You've mentioned having trouble even with just 5 minutes. What is the longest conversation you've had that you've been comfortable with?

If I've ever had a conversation I've felt comfortable in, it's too far in the past to recall.

Discussing them, watching/listening, or both?

That's another typo. I mean that I don't find them interesting.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Did these involve bars and public gatherings?

I don't go to bars. Ever. Both my parents were alcoholics, and I'm not comfortable around a lot of people who are drinking, especially if they've gotten to the stage of actually being drunk.

Public gatherings depends on the type. I'm comfortable at moderate-sized science fiction conventions, where it's pretty much guaranteed that no matter who I talk to, we'll have at least one thing in common, be it an author, favorite TV show, movie, a character we both like, or a common interest in writing, filking, or type of reading. That's not to say I haven't met some jerks at such gatherings; one of them had a habit of coming up behind women and rubbing their backs, and he never asked permission. The first time, I just moved out of reach. After the second time, I said, "Please don't do that." The third time, I told him off in front of everyone, in the middle of the main hallway on the mezzanine where most of the programming was going on. He got defensive and said that "everybody else likes it"/"nobody else told me they didn't like it". I reminded him that I had already politely told him to stop, and he hadn't listened. Thankfully he did stop this time, or my next step would have been to have a chat with the security people.

I'm not usually a partying person, for several reasons. As mentioned, I don't drink and am uncomfortable being around a lot of people who do. The only exceptions I ever made were for the techie and production parties that went along with working in the theatre. I figured I did my share of work, and deserved a supper and entertainment like everyone else. But the whole dressing up, preening and primping? Nope, not my thing. I'll fuss over a costume for a convention until it's "just right", but an ordinary party, never.

A lot of these conversation involve the girls spending more time laughing than talking. Maybe they're attracted to the guy anyway and just fake it?

I honestly couldn't say. It's true that some women are fake, and that some regard social settings as just a game and don't consider the other person's feelings. Keep in mind that with some women, they're not out to impress the guys. Their motivation is competing with other women - who has the more expensive or exclusive clothes or accessories, the latest hairstyle, the most fashionable makeup, and who can attract a man.

But there are plenty of women who are not fake and shallow like that. This is why I suggested getting involved with some community group or volunteering. That way you'd get to meet people when they're not trying to impress others, and are more apt to just be themselves and you have a better chance of figuring out if they're someone you'd like to be around more, and work up to that long conversation you're looking for.

Most of my social experiences come from the theatre, science fiction conventions, the Society for Creative Anachronism, and small gaming groups. Only the theatre people were into what I would consider "mainstream" socializing - going to a bar, dressing up, dating - to someone who preferred to sit back and observe, it was fascinating to see which people became couples and then later broke up and/or exchanged partners with other couples, almost like a real-life soap opera.

This brings up the issue of whether or not to pursue someone who is already in a relationship. I've never done that. If I know a guy is married or in some other committed relationship, then my interaction with him will go no farther than casual, friendly conversation about some topic we're both interested in, or just participating in gaming with a group of other people.

If I've ever had a conversation I've felt 'comfortable' in, it's too far in the past to recall.

Think of a conversation you've had on CFC that you've enjoyed. Can you picture having that conversation, or a similar one, with someone you're with offline?

That's another typo. I mean that I don't find them interesting.

Okay. Most people tend to find common ground somewhere with these topics. Mind you, sometimes it's a spectacular failure. I've got several dozen people on my ignore list at TrekBBS because of how they reacted (trolling and flaming over a period of years) because I don't like the current crop of Star Trek movies.

But that doesn't mean you can't find common interests with people in other areas.

 

[Lohrenswald]

If you have diabetes and don't take insulin, how long does it take you to die?

 

[Synobun]

If you have diabetes and don't take insulin, how long does it take you to die?

Since diabetes is a metabolic syndrome, there's no clear-cut answer for this. It really depends on the severity of the disease and the lifestyle of the sufferer.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Half my conversations include terrible puns and all of mine include meandering conversations with random, half-remembered facts thrown in.

Never let facts get in the way of an interesting story, whether they are half remembered or fully remembered.