"The world is far more complicated than you think it is"

[Kennigit]

Is the America in "America #1" the America I see or the America you see?

Clearly, even known knowledge has many interpretations

 

[El_Machinae]

Even if it in principle was - can a single person presume to understand it all? Can any single being fathom the whole complexity of it?

Suspect not. I mean, I don't think one brain can completely understand itself. Strikes me as metaphysically impossible. So, to understand two brains strikes me as right out.

That says, I don't need to understand the realtime position of every atoms to be able to apply Boyle's laws regarding atmospheric pressure, those atmospheric pressure is very much the realtime sum of individual atoms and their movement.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If you disagree, what happened that gave you a clear understanding of how the world works? Have you applied this knowledge successfully in many situations?

I disagreed because I clearly didn't see the question the same way you are apparently asking it.

The world cannot be much more complex than I think it is. I'm not giving it credit for 'infinite complexity, but it's pretty darn close.

 

[Bootstoots]

Anyone who thinks they understand the world, or that it's only a little more complicated than they understand, clearly has no understanding of the fantastically complex systems that exist at all levels of our own world, from the intricate nanomachinery of each of our ~10^14 cells to the human brain to the behavior of aggregates of humans in economic and political systems to the behavior of the weather and the climate. I don't even have to leave Earth for this - there's more here to find out than some immortal version of me would learn in 10,000 years of study. And then we are of course only one of the planets orbiting one of the ~7x10^22 (IIRC) stars in the observable universe.

And even though I know it's a really complex place, there are many layers of complexity that I know nothing about, and never will know anything about. For instance, I know nothing about the radically different biochemistry and ecology of the biosphere of Xeffto-4, an 8.1 billion-year-old planet, slightly larger than Earth, orbiting the K-type star Xeffto in the Triangulum Galaxy. So yes, the world is far more complicated than I even have the ability to think it is.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't even have to leave Earth for this

I can see that without even getting out of my chair.

 

[Souron]

I think the world is exactly as complicated as I think it is.

Seriously, who's notion of how complicated the world is are we supposed to compare ours to?

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

I disagreed because I clearly didn't see the question the same way you are apparently asking it.

The world cannot be much more complex than I think it is. I'm not giving it credit for 'infinite complexity, but it's pretty darn close.

I think Borachio explained it best. What are these "unknown unknowns" I'm missing?

I don't know what to make of his notion of "unknown knowns" though.

 

[Kyriakos]

(sorry, posted on the wrong thread!! :\ ).

 

[Mise]

Tangentially, we seem to be programmed to avoid unknown unknowns: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsberg_paradox

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

...when gambling is involved?

 

[Mise]

That's an example of a situation where we avoid unknown unknowns, sure.

 

[Kyriakos]

Consciously everyone 'avoids' unknown unknowns, without knowing he is doing so (sometimes one can know he is actively avoiding them, but usually it is an instinctive/unconscious process). Afterall it is largely theorised that the most common way to feel terror is to notice something (generally negative, in some way, even potentially) you did not at all suspect to notice (and is causing a restructure of your thought now).

 

[dusters]

Disagree. Meditation, intuition and experiments has given me all answers I have ever needed.

 

[Hygro]

Disagree. Meditation, intuition and experiments has given me all answers I have ever needed.

That would imply that the world does not exist beyond what you need.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Disagree. Meditation, intuition and experiments has given me all answers I have ever needed.

Then talking to other people, whether in person or in discussions on computer forums, does not provide any answers for you? Reading provides no answers?

 

[Borachio]

I think Borachio explained it best. What are these "unknown unknowns" I'm missing?

I don't know what to make of his notion of "unknown knowns" though.

Well, it's either me being silly (quite likely), me filling in the missing element from a 2 x 2 matrix, or me trying to refer obliquely to things like instinct and intuition.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I voted "no" because I know full well that the world is complicated, and that I don't understand it very well. But I think I should have voted "yes" because I don't know the particular complexities. Maybe I over-thought it.

 

[timtofly]

Then talking to other people, whether in person or in discussions on computer forums, does not provide any answers for you? Reading provides no answers?

Those experiences could be in the "experiments" category.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, it's either me being silly (quite likely), me filling in the missing element from a 2 x 2 matrix, or me trying to refer obliquely to things like instinct and intuition.

Uknown knowns could be a term also for what you 'know' instinctively, but not consciously. For example you know how to move your hands. You don't know how your will sends those commands and how they are picked up and translated to movement (and surely not beyond some general level of understanding).

Another- and likely better- possibility is to term thus anything you know but have not immediate access to in your memory. In dreams one can sometimes recall things from a very distant past, so they are stored as memory although in waking life he is unlikely to recall them.

 

[dusters]

Then talking to other people, whether in person or in discussions on computer forums, does not provide any answers for you? Reading provides no answers?

I can get answers both by meditating and talking to people or discussing. I enjoy CFC a lot, otherwise I wouldn't have so many posts.