TheLopez's Mod Component Library Thread and more

[surdanis]

I would like to propose an inquisitor unit, unit religions, and holy war.

First off, I think missionaries should be invisible to all units (except the inquisitor), and that there should not be a limit to the number of missionaries you can build. Second, I think it's quite annoying to find an enemy civ's religion in your city when you obviously don't want it. The inquisitor would be a unit that is capable of preventing the spread of religion as well as countering its spread in any city. The unt would be available only under the theocracy civic.

The inquisitor, if in a missionary's target city, should be able to defend against the missionary's spreading of religion, bringing the chance to zero, consuming the inquisitor in the process. Also, the inquisitor can instantly destroy any mercenary, which consumes the inquisitor. The inquisitor is also capable of removing any one religion (except the state's religion) from any one city, consuming the inquisitor: this is called an inquisiton. If the city in question does not have the state religion or any religion, then the city will convert to the state religion after an inquisition is launched. Inquisitions instantly incur several turns of unhappiness, and if launched against another civ, will trigger war automatically--unless the inquisitor is from the religion's founding civ, which reduces this chance (though it may increases with subsequent inquisitions).

I would also like to propose the spread of religion through conquest. All units should be tagged with one religion, which should only be visible to the unit's civ and to scouts, spies, explorers, great prophets, missionaries and inquisitors. The unit's mother city should determine the religion; if there are multiple ones, the state religion takes precedence, and then the religion with the greatest number of cities within the civ after that. When a civ conquers a city, there is a chance that the conquering civ spreads religion on that turn in the city and all units within the city--the organized religion and theocracy civics would increase this chance. The chance of spread is determined by the amount of the conqueror's culture already in that city, and increases if there are other cities within the enemy civ with the same religion. Any unit may convert to the state religion as the chance of spread increases over time.

An inquisitor can launch an inquisition against any unit to convert them to the state religion. The inquisitor, by their nature, would be visible to all units and civs. If attacked by any civ, the action instantly causes hostility to rise among civs of the inquisitor's religion against the offending civ; if the inquistor's civ has his religion's holy city, war is declared by all civs of the inquisitor's religion against the offending civ.

I would also like to propose the addition of a religious capital, in addition to the notion of a holy city. The religious capital would be separate from the holy city, and would be designated by the construction of a religious wonder, available only under organized religion or theocracy and if the state religion is the dominant religion in that civ. Its construction essentially creates pseudo-holy city, which allows another civ that is not the religion's founder to reap the benefits of a holy city. Up to two religious capitals can be construction in the world, and only one may be owned per civ: Thus, if a civ with one religious capital conquers another civ with a religious capital, the conquering civ is given the ability to choose which one of the two is the religious capital for the religion, though no other religious capitals may be designated in the world. An example of this in the real world is Christianity, whose holy city is Jersusalem, yet Rome and Constantinople were the religious capitals.

Furthermore, having a religious capital allows the owning civ to declare holy wars. A holy war is started by that one civ though others may join. The holy war lasts a minimum number of turns (12?), which can be extended based on the success of the holy war. In order to launch one, the civ with the religious capital must first be under organized religion or theocracy (i.e. switching religion civics after designating a religious capital will not work) and have a Great Prophet, who must be in the religious capital. When the Great Prophet selects the action "declare holy war", the player selects the enemy city to capture. Each civ (who must be of the same religion) that joins the holy war adds 2 (?) turns to its duration. If the city is conquered before the time runs out, the holy war continues for another 6 (?) turns, at which point the player may designate another city to capture. Capturing a holy city also adds 6 (?) turns; capturing the civ's holy city adds 12 (?) turns; capturing a religious capital could add 4 (?) turns.

The benefits of a holy war are increased production speed of military units for its duration and several turns of happiness upon completion of holy war objectives. Furthermore, a player may choose to wholly convert any conquered city to his religion along with all tagged units within it.

Thanks for reading.

 

[surdanis]

The slave unit essentially transforms into a slave specialist within the new city. This specialist adds extra production only (not counting the migration of culture). A successful revolt caused by slave specialists can either produce a barbarian state or a city of the source civ. The slave unit can also function as a worker or military unit through an upgrade--that is, slave workers and slave soldiers. The slave soldier should be of the lowest possible grade unit available to that civ (ala drafting under the nationalism civic)

The specialist slave should probably provide regular (not extra) production, gold, or food based on what the player decides.

 

[WolfTech2001]

First and foremost I would like to recognize the great ability and effort that TheLopez has put into the CIV IV mod-making community. Secondly I would like to request that the 3 tile city radius mod be implemented into the Great Options Gold Edition. It sounds like a great idea to provide more flexibility in placing cities. I look forward to seeing this new version and it's Warlords edition. Keep up the great work!

 

[alms66]

Well, if you're looking for something different to do, instead of a mod component, you can do this map script request.

And in case you don't hear it enough, you're doing some excellent work here and the community appreciates it.

 

[alms66]

Oh but I think these things make the game more fun. It's very litle to calculate, will not slow down the game with more than some milisecond. Would be fun to have slow moving units like some big gun, or stone gigant with movement 0.5 (that can only move every other turn). And I think it's strange that only city radius use circular distance.

I've been waiting for True Movement since civ1...
but, I'd rather you show it to me somehow. Put a little number next to the unit or something that shows how long until it can move again.

 

[TheLopez]

First and foremost I would like to recognize the great ability and effort that TheLopez has put into the CIV IV mod-making community. Secondly I would like to request that the 3 tile city radius mod be implemented into the Great Options Gold Edition. It sounds like a great idea to provide more flexibility in placing cities. I look forward to seeing this new version and it's Warlords edition. Keep up the great work!

Thanks for that WolfTech2001. The 3 Tile City Radius mod is on the inclusion list...

 

[Ket]

One thing we noticed that might be an issue with the 3 square radi

On Europe and world maps it becomes very difficult to found cities and the space is crunched to begin with giving an enormous advantage to The Americas, Africa, and Russia...

That being said, since the great options mod is just that OPTIONS its a fine add, just noting the issue we discovered during one of our build cycles.

 

[MorraGambit]

TheLopez - Great work with these mods - thank you for taking the time to improve the game.

In reading this thread, it looks like the "Dynamic Resources mod" is still at the design phase. I'm sure that you and other posters have weighed in on ways to implement, but here's my two cents.

I suggest that each resource have a limited number of cities which it can support. Two examples:

Example 1: Oil. It does not seem correct that access to a single oil field can provide sufficient oil for the entire empire in perpetuity. I propose that each oil resource enables up to 5 cities to produce oil-requiring units. As a result, a large empire embroiled in a tank war must have access to multiple sources of oil to support the military-industrial production. Or put another way, empires with more access to oil have more capacity to pump out oil-based units.

The number of cities "enabled" by the resource can vary with the size of the world (5 cities is an arbitrary number). In the variation I propose, the empire could produce oil-based units in any 5 cities, but at a maximum of 5 cities. Once one of the cities finished production of an oil-based unit, then any one of the other cities could start building any oil-based unit.

Obviously, the logic for limiting oil can be extended to each of the resources (Iron, Copper, etc.)

Example 2: Cows. Once again, access to one cow plot should not confer advantage throughout a large empire. Instead, each cow should help a limited number of cities. At a first approximation, perhaps each cow would provide +1 Health to the largest 5 cities. Each subsequent cow provides +1 health to the next largest 5 cities.

The same logic would apply to other resources that provide happiness or health.

Rationale: In additional to being more realistic, I believe this increases the strategic complexity in interesting ways. For example:
* As your empire grows, you now need to acquire additional resources to support the empire. So the expansion of your empire requires more foresight.
* War over scarce resources makes more sense. Right now, a large empire with access to many resources has some reason to expand, but the incentive is diminished (especially with the realities of higher maintenance). Increasing the value of resources will increase the need to fight to obtain more resources.
* You will be faced with interesting trade decisions. For example, do you trade your 2nd Cow resource for a first Fur resource? This will involve balancing helping your cities #6 through 10 vs. helping further your 5 largest cities.

Again, just my two cents. Thanks again for the many mods you've provided.

MorraGambit

 

[n003lb]

Question,

[EDIT]
I answered my own questions about combining the SDK mods together.



Also, a mod request I've wanted to see for some time. I'd like to see a couple of new air missions added.

One would be a "Patrol" mission, which would basically be a recon mission repeated over the same tile every turn until you cancel it. This would allow you to easily keep an eye on an area of ocean using aircraft.

The second would be an "Air Escort" mission, which would either be tied to a bomber, or would be treated like an "Intercept" mission. In either case, this would allow bombers to go into combat with an escort to help them survive enemy CAPs (Intercepts).

I've thought about doing this for some time, along with a lot of other mod ideas I have, but I don't know how to integrate them. I've got a lot of mod ideas. I've got Mind Maps for a lot of them.

 

[alms66]

Here's a little something I wrote up before civ4 even came out that I'd still like to see implemented. I was planning on doing it myself, but I don't have the time for that anymore...

Am I the only one that thinks exploration & expansion (E&E) is too fast in standard civ games? I switched to Rhye's mod in order to experience slower E&E, and expansion is slowed significantly there, but I still feel exploration is a bit too fast. It's still far too easy to circle your continent with ships and map the interior before the middle ages. A supply system would fix this, by limiting the operational range of units. I've seen many proposals, most of which are good, but too complex or too micromanagement (MM) intensive for most players. I've never seen a proposal similar to this one however.

The Basics:
1. All units have a new stat "Operational Range" (OR)
2. Moving more than a number of tiles equal to the unit’s operation range outside of your borders causes a chance that the unit will automatically disband - think of it as "sinking in sea" for land units. For example, if a unit's OR is 4, moving 5 or more tiles outside of the civ's borders would cause a chance of loosing the unit.
3. Technologies and Promotions could grant bonuses to OR.

Using this system is advantageous for several reasons:
1. It limits early E&E without artificially restricting movement (suicide runs are possible).
2. It reuses a familiar concept (ships sinking at sea).
3. No MM at all.
4. This might reduce the desire to use ICS, since you will want to push your borders as far as possible in the early game to increase OR.
5. It adds just the right amount of realism and playability. (IMHO, of course )

Additional Considerations (Optional)
1. Lack of Supply (cut lines, foraging and such)
2. Extended OR (Supply Wagons)

#1 requires #2, so I'll do it first. Supply Wagons (or whatever name is given to them), would be a physical unit on the map, which has it's own OR from the civ's border, but extends OR for other, non-Supply Wagon Units, so that one cannot simply make a chain of Supply Wagons to cross the continent. This requires a bit of extra work to implement. It's completely optional, and the simple supply system would function just fine without it. With that said though, it would be a very nice option to have.

Cutting supply would be a simple matter of killing the Supply Wagon. Then we have three options:
A. All units that were in supply by the wagon are now out of supply and might very well disband next turn. It's not automatic though, chances of auto-disbanding are the same as for normally leaving supply.
B. All units that were in supply by the wagon are given a number of turns equal to OR to get back in-supply (whether by wagon or getting closer to home), otherwise the civ risks loosing the unit as normal. This represents foraging to a limited extent, and could be complicated by terrain and other factors, but I'll leave that to your imaginations.
C. Teleport all units, on the following turn, towards the mother civ, just enough to re-enter supply.

Option A requires no amount of additional work. Options B and C require some extra work, but option C reuses the teleporting concept when you are forced out of another civ's borders. Personally, I would go with option A or B, A before B even, since it requires no extra work.

 

[TheLopez]

Alms, I really like this idea, except for the supply wagon... instead of a supply wagon lets make forts more useful and use them instead. What do you think? One huge impact to this though is the AI...

 

[Jeckel]

Jeckel touches his nose and points at TheLopez, yea use the forts, that would simply rock cahonaes.

 

[Arlborn]

That is a hell of a list!! Congratulations!!!!!!

Waiting anxiously for regicide mode mod!!!!!

 

[alms66]

Alms, I really like this idea, except for the supply wagon... instead of a supply wagon lets make forts more useful and use them instead. What do you think? One huge impact to this though is the AI...

That's a great idea as well, though you can't build forts outside of your borders can you (to be honest, I don't think I've ever built a fort)? Also, forts aren't mobile, but then again, most real suppy points aren't either, and forts can't go into foreign lands either (again, I don't think you can own a fort in another civ's territory). Maybe it would be best to have both, though make the wagon come later in the tech tree?

Yes, the AI will need to be taught not to go out of supply and the player will need a visual cue of which units are in supply (green), almost out of supply (yellow) or out of supply (red). The player's cue can be accomplished by showing a flag of the appropriate color, depending on the unit's supply situation. I haven't even looked at the SDK, but I assume that it does allow one to modify the AI, correct?

 

[TheLopez]

That's a great idea as well, though you can't build forts outside of your borders can you (to be honest, I don't think I've ever built a fort)? Also, forts aren't mobile, but then again, most real suppy points aren't either, and forts can't go into foreign lands either (again, I don't think you can own a fort in another civ's territory). Maybe it would be best to have both, though make the wagon come later in the tech tree?

Actually, if you use my Improvements Outside Borders mod they can be built outside your own cultural borders.

Yes, the AI will need to be taught not to go out of supply and the player will need a visual cue of which units are in supply (green), almost out of supply (yellow) or out of supply (red). The player's cue can be accomplished by showing a flag of the appropriate color, depending on the unit's supply situation. I haven't even looked at the SDK, but I assume that it does allow one to modify the AI, correct?

Yes, the AI would have to be trained using the SDK. As for using flags to show a units supply level... that should be possible...

 

[n003lb]

I'd like to add my vote for Alms idea. That is one of the better supply scenarios I've seen.

I would consider combining both ideas, leaving in something like the supply wagon, but also make forts a source for supplys. I still like the idea of giving forts a cultural border when occupied. That cultural border would then serve as a supply base for the wagons.

I would also consider the idea of making the unit lose HP each turn it's out of supply, rather than disbanding it. That would be more "realistic" since a unit that is cut-off from supply doesn't really just disappear, rather it gets weaker over time as it's supplys run out. Of course, we're talking about a turn based stratagy game here, so realisim isn't necessarily all that important.

Also, certain units should be immune to supply problems, like explorers or pathfinders. Basically, if you create a new XML tag for the units called something like <iOpRange> or something, then make it so that an OpRange of 0 would be unlimited range.

 

[alms66]

Also, certain units should be immune to supply problems, like explorers or pathfinders. Basically, if you create a new XML tag for the units called something like <iOpRange> or something, then make it so that an OpRange of 0 would be unlimited range.

I wouldn't say that they should be completely immune, but that's really a very minor issue in the grand scheme of it. I would give units like scouts, explorers, spies, etc. much higher operational ranges though. One of the points of the mod is to slow exploration, and immunity to suppy for scouts, for example, kind of nerfs that.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well, one of the things is that scouts and explorers represent a considerably smaller body of men than the other units... where a Warrior might represent hundreds or even thousands of men, a Scout might only represent dozens... and the Explorer maybe only a few hundred.

So the logistical problems for supplying them dwindles almost into insignificance.

 

[alms66]

Well, one of the things is that scouts and explorers represent a considerably smaller body of men than the other units... where a Warrior might represent hundreds or even thousands of men, a Scout might only represent dozens... and the Explorer maybe only a few hundred.

So the logistical problems for supplying them dwindles almost into insignificance.

True, which is the reason I say give them a high OR. The reason I say it should not be unlimited is that you don't want a scout travelling from Europe to the eastern tip of Siberia in the ancient age. That's the kind of thing I sought to limit with this model. But, if the option of 'unlimited OR' is there, I'd just mod it out of my version. It's not that big a deal to me if The Lopez makes them unlimited by default or not, I just strongly disagree with the idea of it.

 

[n003lb]

I understand what your saying, and yes, a scout making it nearly around the world in ancient times is rather unrealisitc. What I was refering to in my post was the fact that a small group of pathfinders, or since you mention them, a spy, would not really need "support" from home. I was thinking it would simulate the fact that these units can "forage" for supplies on their own, unlike an entire regiment or whatever of regular military.

Spies would need to obtain supplies within the country it's operating in. You wouldn't want to have to ship food and such to an undercover operative.

This is why I suggested that if the OR were set to '0', it would mean unlimited OR. For you, you could give those units an OR of something like 20 or whatever.

BTW, I just want to go on the record again and say I really like this idea. Especially if it's done with a combination of forts and supply wagons.