There are more of us than there are of them

[Cloud_Strife]

Anyone who still believes the GOP and their voters can be swayed over are being incredibly naive, they've stuck to their guns with an accused rapist.

They don't care about anything other than owning the "libs".

I'm afraid you are being deeply naive @Hygro, almost willfully so, have you ignored what has been happening for the last few years? These are decent people who care about others, these are people who care more for their political tribe, even if it means ultimately screwing themselves over.

 

[MaryKB]

I feel too what's wrong on our side is how so many seem to feel things are hunky-dory right now and problems will just "go away." They refuse to recognize just how bad women, people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQ+, etc, have it right now. They don't experience these things for themselves, and they think "Oh we can just naturally let things progress over a few generations ... " easy for them to say, because they're not part of a marginalized group. Your promise that my great-granddaughter will be fully equal doesn't help me today, and I feel it's just a stalling tactic and she'll be told the same things I am (to "just keep waiting, it'll get better eventually.") I don't see any valid reason why we can't have full equality for all people right now, our only true barrier is that those with power over others don't want to let it go, and I'm not just going to sit back and accept my place while you make empty promises.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I feel too what's wrong on our side is how so many seem to feel things are hunky-dory right now and problems will just "go away." They refuse to recognize just how bad women, people of color, religious minorities, LGBTQ+, etc, have it right now. They don't experience these things for themselves, and they think "Oh we can just naturally let things progress over a few generations ... " easy for them to say, because they're not part of a marginalized group. Your promise that my great-granddaughter will be fully equal doesn't help me today, and I feel it's just a stalling tactic and she'll be told the same things I am (to "just keep waiting, it'll get better eventually.") I don't see any valid reason why we can't have full equality for all people right now, our only true barrier is that those with power over others don't want to let it go, and I'm not just going to sit back and accept my place while you make empty promises.

The promises made by so-called allies who are willing to use our fates as political chips, letting them lay where they fall, does nothing to endear me to the "liberal" side.

Those that complain about identity politics don't seem to understand that there is a consistant history of us certain groups being sidelined, even after they were promised greater freedom and rights, in fact they are so wrapped up in their own priviledge they don't even know. In the US, you can still be fired in many states for merely being Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered but i don't see the usual suspects who are quick to remind us how good minorities have it, addressing that disparity.

 

[Narz]

You really don’t think you can do it do you...

It's a waste of energy trying to change people's minds (I'm aware of the irony of posting this)

Anyone who still believes the GOP and their voters can be swayed over are being incredibly naive, they've stuck to their guns with an accused rapist.

Bill Clinton was also accused of rape.

They don't care about anything other than owning the "libs"

That's a shallow analysis. Many of them voted for Obama and were disappointed.

I kind of agree w Hygro in that we should engage w people's humanity rather than put them in boxes. Unless they're super toxic and best avoided altogether but that's like 5% of people.

Alot of Trump voters simply voted against Hillary or thought their taxes would go down and more jobs would be created. Naive, sure, but so was believing in the transparent govt that Obama promised.

 

[Narz]

They refuse to recognize just how bad women ... have it right now.

White women in the US have it fine. (in general, obviously individuals have problems but as a whole on most metrics they are doing quite well)

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Bill Clinton was also accused of rape.

Am i defending Bill Clinton Narz? Am i? I don't think i am, son.

White women in the US have it fine.

That'll be a yikes from me! You know the GOP are actively trying to criminalize abortion right, you can't seriously be that ignorant of what's been happening, right? Nevermind contraception, hormones etc.

Yet you can't help yourself coming into this thread, krammering in with your hot takes on how white women have it "fine", like how the **** would you know? We have a literal credibly accused rapist on the SCOTUS and as the POTUS but you think the situation is fine? It's not inconcievable that abortion could be banned within our lifetimes but you want to talk about it as if it isn't a pressing threat?

 

[Narz]

Am i defending Bill Clinton Narz? Am i? I don't think i am, son.

Lol, son. That's cute. Did someone say that to you when you were little and it stung and now you're trying to out?

People generally dont rush to switch parties when their candidate is accused of something. It's a weak attempt to make a point

That'll be a yikes from me! You know the GOP are actively trying to criminalize abortion right, you can't seriously be that ignorant of what's been happening, right?

In some states yeah, its nuts. It's super barbaric. In general tho a white woman is gonna be safer, healthier and iirc even better educated now than her male counterparts

Coming into this thread, krammering in with your hot takes on how white women have it "fine", like how the **** would you know?

Um statistics and also I have a social life.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

In some states yeah, its nuts.

For now, but the way the GOP are pushing, it'll eventually affect all states, but you don't care, you see no need to organize against it.

Um statistics and also I have a social life.

No offense but i don't think women are that interested in telling you, of all people, about the trauma or issues they've suffered from because of their gender, least of all because i have a sneaking suspicion that you would find a way to turn it back on them coupled with your frankly lackadaisical attitude, you're the last person i could trust with these issues.

Also you are aware that rapes and sexual assault are vastly underreported right?

You understand that right?

 

[MaryKB]

Oh I didn't realize the gender earnings gap and glass ceilings suddenly disappeared! Just for starters ...

(but of course a white man who's demonstrated his women-hating many times knows better than I do about my own experiences)

 

[rah]

The only comment I'll make is that probably half the people that support gay rights now didn't as few as 20 years ago. How do you think that happened?Bring them along wherever you can and eventually (yeah, I know eventually can be a long time) things can get better. The hopeless ones will eventually die off and hopefully they won't have permanently influenced their spawn.

 

[Narz]

For now, but the way the GOP are pushing, it'll eventually affect all states, but you don't care, you see no need to organize against it.

Are you organizing against it?

No offense but i don't think women are that interested in telling you, of all people, about the trauma or issues they've suffered from because of their gender

Opinion based on nothing doesn't offend me.

coupled with your frankly lackadaisical attitude

Damn, it's like I'm back in grade school.

you're the last person i could trust with these issues.

What does your trust have to do w anything? Not everything is about you.

Also you are aware that rapes and sexual assault are vastly underreported right?

Yeah, it's a huge problem. Most people (aprox 2/3 according to a book I read about trauma) have suffered pretty significant physical/emotional or sexual abuse in their lifetimes. Women generally deal w their trauma better than men (more social bonds and whatnot) but you're wont hearing me argue that society is hunky-dory, I'm saying that in general, despite all the f-edness in society women are not an "oppressed class" and the oppression olympics in general is not going to convert anyone just reinforce certain right-wing stereotypes

 

[Narz]

Oh I didn't realize the gender earnings gap and glass ceilings suddenly disappeared! Just for starters ...

Mostly bs, there are thousands of articles about this.

(but of course a white man who's demonstrated his women-hating many times knows better than I do about my own experiences)

I love women (not all of them of course, some are ****)

One of us professed how the opposite sex "sucks". It wasn't me.

As for your experience, not really interested based on your behavior (you come off kinda BP, reminds me of my ex) I'm talking about general trends.

 

[MaryKB]

Mostly bs, there are thousands of articles about this.

OMG I think you're for real lol.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Are you organizing against it?

Yes. I also contribute funds to keeping PP clinics open.

Opinion based on nothing doesn't offend me.

I only base it on what you've said in the past. Deal with that.

Yeah, it's a huge problem. Most people (aprox 2/3 according to a book I read about trauma) have suffered pretty significant physical/emotional or sexual abuse in their lifetimes. Women generally deal w their trauma better than men (more social bonds and whatnot) but you're wont hearing me argue that society is hunky-dory, I'm saying that in general, despite all the f-edness in society women are not an "oppressed class" and the oppression olympics in general is not going to convert anyone just reinforce certain right-wing stereotypes

Women face insitutional barriers that men (Cis white ones at least) just do not face, how can you claim they aren't an oppressed class when they are being denied the rights to even control their own bodies? An absolute joke, do you just think that's a small issue?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

OMG I think you're for real lol.

Now look, he doesn't dislike women he just doesn't care that their bodily autonomy has been and currently is being restricted, that they may soon be denied the right to even have an abortion, that medication is being denied to them on the basis of peoples feelings, that they are paid less than their male counterparts, that law enforcement are still reticient even investigate allegations of sexual abuse etc etc.

But he totally loves women, why don't you know, he even talks to them? Willingly!

 

[MaryKB]

Women face insitutional barriers that men (Cis white ones at least) just do not face, how can you claim they aren't an oppressed class when they are being denied the rights to even control their own bodies? An absolute joke, do you just think that's a small issue?

He doesn't care, I guess he's got his Reality Stone and can just make it whatever he wants, like declaring there's no gender wage gap or promotion barriers.

 

[Farm Boy]

Liberals in the USA vs conservatives, that is.

Only if you take them at their word when they mislabel themselves. But I still wish us all luck.

Super double bonus points for identifying purity themes in the dialogue and who is arguing what, but, <yawn>, yeah. Old news, right?

 

[Narz]

Yes. I also contribute funds to keeping PP clinics open.

Props

An absolute joke, do you just think that's a small issue?

It's a major issue in a couple of states just as men being imprisoned in crazy numbers is, the US is f-ed up in myriad ways.

The us vs them schtick is how TPTB divide us.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

He doesn't care, I guess he's got his Reality Stone and can just make it whatever he wants, like declaring there's no gender wage gap or promotion barriers.

Well as we all know, when it's the lived experiences of real women versus one white dude on the internet, the latter's opinion, based solely upon his own misreading of stats, stats that are more often than not presented out of context, take precedence over the former.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It's a major issue in a couple of states just as men being imprisoned in crazy numbers is, the US is f-ed up in myriad ways.

The us vs them schtick is how TPTB divide us.

And all you want to do is sit on your hands and kvetch about how well akshully women aren't paid less and abortion restrictions only exist in a few states and don't you see them identity politics is bad whilst offering no solutions or alternatives. I won't fall for your attempts to claim to be beyond it all and i won't let the fact that you are as detatched from the issues women are currently facing, legally, socially, personally, as possible slide when you talk about it.

You are the gender equivalent of someone offering up the fact that they have black friends as a supposed antidote to any attempts to reduce racism.