There are more of us than there are of them

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I don't know exactly what this means, but I think the world would be a better place if everyone acted a bit more like Mr. Rogers.
He is saying that intolerance of intolerant people will linearly evolve to intolerance of arbitrary demographics.

That's not necessarily the case. I explained the reason smear campaigns, slander, character assassinations, blacklisting, cancelation, gets started and how the ball gets rolling in my last post. It's an observed and verified psychological and sociological phenomenon, and saying it "must be the attacked one, because they're the common dominator" is not usually a truth as a further tool relying on this psychological flaw to actually work. Being "correct" or "wrong" in issues is not a matter of democracy.

In theory, I agree. I'm obviously included in the group you're referring to but it seems to me that the common issue is that you think we're all collectively misunderstanding you.

If we're doing that intentionally, why? We gain nothing. And along the same lines of an earlier comment by Mary, I don't remember you being this... antagonistic? misunderstood? in the past. If anything, we'd want to give you the benefit of the doubt, and IIRC during the early days of the disagreements people would ask you questions instead of belittling you. It's after doubling down that the approach shifted.

Again, IIRC. And again, I'm a part of that group you're referring to here, so my word means less.
 
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He is saying that intolerance of intolerant people will linearly evolve to intolerance of arbitrary demographics.

That's the real kicker there. That's where it started. I'm NOT an intolerant person. This all started when I tried to give some sense of realistic perspective to @Cloud_Strife's somewhat distorted view of the world, and pointing out her proposed "solutions," were way too extreme. That was the point EVERYTHING I said was twisted, misinterpreted, and warped to evil, ulterior, and hateful I had never said, words were put in my mouth constantly, and my point of view, my socio-political allegiance, and all beliefs were declared, arbitrarily for me, completely in opposition to any truth at all. And, ironically, I only brought those matters of perspective to @Cloud_Strife to help her cause, because it would have been doomed tragically on the rails it was already was headed.
 
The condemnation of @Berzerker's post was worded in a somewhat sarcastic format - I'm not sure how many people nowadays use "merry tale," or "Mr. Rogers," social norms in terms of sincere praise and support nowadays. And I used the term, "insidiously flexible," not a term of grand accolade either. Obviously there are many, many ways to read the English language that are over your head (or perhaps you did see, but deliberately ignored and played done for ulterior motives of advancing your narrative, which is growing old and has already shown you and others for the disingenuous smear campaigners and liars you are - how many more times do you have to display these repugnant traits, and then claim you're the righteous ones).
I don't know what you consider sarcasm. I don't guess when it comes to your posts, because you use any hint of guesswork as an attack back on me (and others). It doesn't work out positively, so I don't do it.

You almost spent more words on insulting my character than you did responding to my actual points, which I think answers more than perhaps you wanted. But please, do go on about our smears towards your good self.
 
I don't know what you consider sarcasm. I don't guess when it comes to your posts, because you use any hint of guesswork as an attack back on me (and others). It doesn't work out positively, so I don't do it.

You almost spent more words on insulting my character than you did responding to my actual points, which I think answers more than perhaps you wanted. But please, do go on about our smears towards your good self.

Why don't we block each other and save our blood pressures then?
 
That's the real kicker there. That's where it started. I'm NOT an intolerant person. This all started when I tried to give some sense of realistic perspective to @Cloud_Strife's somewhat distorted view of the world, and pointing out her proposed "solutions," were way too extreme. That was the point EVERYTHING I said was twisted, misinterpreted, and warped to evil, ulterior, and hateful I had never said, words were put in my mouth constantly, and my point of view, my socio-political allegiance, and all beliefs were declared, arbitrarily for me, completely in opposition to any truth at all. And, ironically, I only brought those matters of perspective to @Cloud_Strife to help her cause, because it would have been doomed tragically on the rails it was already was headed.

I guess the issue I see is that we're equating "racist belief holders" with "victims of racist belief holders," or your preferred analogy. You are right, in theory, that intolerance can be institutionalized against demographics that don't deserve it. There are people alive today that have seen this when it was the law, and there are still vestiges of it left where it is modus operandi to judge PoC more harshly than you would someone who is white, even if it's no longer law.

But I don't think it's reasonable to say that intolerance of the intolerant is equivalent to intolerance of the victim. You're targeting a completely different result in both cases. The intent behind intolerance of the intolerant is to force tolerance. Your (general "you") choice to hate someone born black is less important, and less justifiable, than someone being hated for being born black. We shouldn't tolerate that choice. The end result of not tolerating that choice is that all black people are tolerated at the very least, and protected from discriminatory harm.

If you are intolerant of black people, you're not serving a greater good. You're not making a more tolerant world. You're just hurting a demographic who can't help being what they are. You are creating an artificial lower class that deserves derision and discrimination. You're hurting someone, and that's the plain and simple goal. There is a winner and a loser, and the winner most often ends up being the demographic you're specifically part of.

If you're intolerant of racists, you're making a more tolerant world. You're making it clear that people can't target that demographic, that black people should be guaranteed equal footing. You're removing someone's power to hurt others. Your goal is to provide safety for everyone regardless of born differences.

It is much easier to not be racist than it is to not be black. Specifically, you learn to hate black people. You aren't born thinking they are lesser. You aren't born trying to legislate away their ability to succeed or even be independent. You can't learn to be a different skin colour. You are what you are, and you should be protected from harm.

People in the former category, the ones who are racist, will cite the latter's goal as being their own. They, too, are trying to make a "safer world." But this is demonstrably false. They are objectively trying to make a world that benefits them and theirs, with the Others deserving their lesser position in society.

You're giving legitimacy to their propaganda and platform by saying both forms of intolerance are equal.
 
A person can't change their race/skin colour. But a person can become non-racist.
 
Why don't we block each other and save our blood pressures then?
My blood pressure is fine but I completely respect any choice you make. The problem is you seem to apply your rhetoric to pretty much anyone who ends up disagreeing with you for any length of time.

You've gone to lengths in a recent post to express your best intentions r.e. Cloud. I'm not commenting on that specifically, but I want you to understand that I am concerned about this outlook of yours. It takes over discussions, and it doesn't help you, nevermind anyone else. Think on how it could be affecting you before you reply to people, perhaps. That thing you accused Mary of is exactly what you also seem to be doing.

We're all guilty of bias, I'm not pretending to be immune. But I am saying this in good faith.
 
I guess the issue I see is that we're equating "racist belief holders" with "victims of racist belief holders," or your preferred analogy. You are right, in theory, that intolerance can be institutionalized against demographics that don't deserve it. There are people alive today that have seen this when it was the law, and there are still vestiges of it left where it is modus operandi to judge PoC more harshly than you would someone who is white, even if it's no longer law.

But I don't think it's reasonable to say that intolerance of the intolerant is equivalent to intolerance of the victim. You're targeting a completely different result in both cases. The intent behind intolerance of the intolerant is to force tolerance. Your (general "you") choice to hate someone born black is less important, and less justifiable, than someone being hated for being born black. We shouldn't tolerate that choice. The end result of not tolerating that choice is that all black people are tolerated at the very least, and protected from discriminatory harm.

If you are intolerant of black people, you're not serving a greater good. You're not making a more tolerant world. You're just hurting a demographic who can't help being what they are. You are creating an artificial lower class that deserves derision and discrimination. You're hurting someone, and that's the plain and simple goal. There is a winner and a loser, and the winner most often ends up being the demographic you're specifically part of.

If you're intolerant of racists, you're making a more tolerant world. You're making it clear that people can't target that demographic, that black people should be guaranteed equal footing. You're removing someone's power to hurt others. Your goal is to provide safety for everyone regardless of born differences.

It is much easier to not be racist than it is to not be black. Specifically, you learn to hate black people. You aren't born thinking they are lesser. You aren't born trying to legislate away their ability to succeed or even be independent. You can't learn to be a different skin colour. You are what you are, and you should be protected from harm.

People in the former category, the ones who are racist, will cite the latter's goal as being their own. They, too, are trying to make a "safer world." But this is demonstrably false. They are objectively trying to make a world that benefits them and theirs, with the Others deserving their lesser position in society.

You're giving legitimacy to their propaganda and platform by saying both forms of intolerance are equal.

This all does have legitimacy, I admit. But, for the full effects of these changes to be possible, two things have to be acknowledged and tackled as well - two things that several of the posters I lock horns with here seem in utter denial of and don't want to touch, bring into the solution, or even acknowledge the existence of. First, not all racists and bigots are White - a LOT of them are non-White, and pretending that racism and bigotry (which is a very serious and socially destructive issue indeed) is a solely a "White sin," is very counter-productive to such solutions. Second, "cancel culture," has become TANTAMOUNT to lynching or ant-LGBTQ street violence against Straight White Males who arbitrarily displease certain groups, as it lacks all due process, all adherence to law, any ability for the accused to defend themselves, and, while it may not result in violent death, it results in loss of livelihood and all accomplishment and reputation (and is the EXTACT SAME TACTIC AND PROCESS as "Blacklisting" in the McCarthy/HUAC era, BTW). I do not say this out of any ulterior motive, but because without these things being addressed seriously, such a social movement will only end up only being HALF effective, in the end.
 
White people are not discriminated against by our society for their skin color. Men are not held back because of their sex. Christians are not marginalized because of their religious beliefs. Both of your points are very deeply flawed and rooted in status-quo protectivism.

Your whinging about "cancel culture" is about people who've had power for so long now being called to task for what they're doing. White men are used to being able to treat women like crap, and discriminate against minorities, and this used to be totally normal. But not anymore, we're no longer putting up with it, and those used to their power and privilege are going to have to learn that it's going away. "Cancel culture" isn't even a real thing, but people used to indiscriminate power and now being held accountable are undeniably upset. The problem is that we don't feel sorry for them.

We're no longer going to put mens' reputations above womens' safety, or minorities' rights, and so on. #TimesUp
 
That's the real kicker there. That's where it started. I'm NOT an intolerant person. This all started when I tried to give some sense of realistic perspective to @Cloud_Strife's somewhat distorted view of the world, and pointing out her proposed "solutions," were way too extreme. That was the point EVERYTHING I said was twisted, misinterpreted, and warped to evil, ulterior, and hateful I had never said, words were put in my mouth constantly, and my point of view, my socio-political allegiance, and all beliefs were declared, arbitrarily for me, completely in opposition to any truth at all. And, ironically, I only brought those matters of perspective to @Cloud_Strife to help her cause, because it would have been doomed tragically on the rails it was already was headed.

You doth protest too much methinks.
How laughable that you whine about your perspective being distorted when that is all you ever do to anyone's perspectives, and you do so on an abhorrently objectionable scale... While crying passionately about how it is being done to you. You sir are a joke.

And why would you want to block Gorbles, I thought you were against censorship?

Also very telling that your concern about cancel culture is only in regards to straight white men, when the same exaggerated non-issue impacted other black, female and even trans figures in the same way and pretty much same ratio as white men.

It's also funny how your main argument in regards to racism is that, other people than whites are racist! Hilarious about the irony there. Annnnd very Trumpian of you to compare canceling white men to murder. Pathetic Patine. Go take a nap.
 
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White people are not discriminated against by our society for their skin color. Men are not held back because of their sex. Christians are not marginalized because of their religious beliefs. Both of your points are very deeply flawed and rooted in status-quo protectivism.

Your whinging about "cancel culture" is about people who've had power for so long now being called to task for what they're doing. White men are used to being able to treat women like crap, and discriminate against minorities, and this used to be totally normal. But not anymore, we're no longer putting up with it, and those used to their power and privilege are going to have to learn that it's going away. "Cancel culture" isn't even a real thing, but people used to indiscriminate power and now being held accountable are undeniably upset. The problem is that we don't feel sorry for them.

We're no longer going to put mens' reputations above womens' safety, or minorities' rights, and so on. #TimesUp

So, when Nation of Islam and hard Islamist immigrants say the most loathesome and vile things about you and other women, and your place in society, that's not an issue and that's just fine, because they're not White men. And when Black and Hispanic youths, stirred up by anti-LGBTQ rhetoric chanted at Rap and Dancehall concerts, go and murder someone like @Cloud_Strife, that's no problem, look the other way, or at least NEVER call it a hate crime, because they're not White. And when a Chinese family owned business refused to employ any of you because obviously you're not Chinese, no issue - it wasn't a discriminatory White employer. Because only Whites are bigots... :S
 
So, when Nation of Islam and hard Islamist immigrants say the most loathesome and vile things about you and other women, and your place in society, that's not an issue and that's just fine, because they're not White men. And when Black and Hispanic youths, stirred up by anti-LGBTQ rhetoric chanted at Rap and Dancehall concerts, go and murder someone like @Cloud_Strife, that's no problem, look the other way, or at least NEVER call it a hate crime, because they're not White. And when a Chinese family owned business refused to employ any of you because obviously you're not Chinese, no issue - it wasn't a discriminatory White employer. Because only Whites are bigots... :S

And when the Great Replacement starts happening Mary's going to be replaced as well she better not complain about that.
 
*sigh*

You still don't get it. Of course any kind of hate and violence is bad. However ...

- Minority immigrants don't have the power to deny me promotions and raises at work
- They aren't the reason women aren't respected professionally
- They're not controlling gateways and taking advantage of women wanting careers
- They don't have the power to systematically strip me of my rights to my own body

You're doing your "whataboutism" again ... I'm talking about the systematic institutional oppression that white men have and still do to women and minorities, and you're coming back saying "But what about this little threat that's never going to personally affect you???" to deflect from that.
 
You did, more or less, several months ago, on a different thread.
LMFAOROFLOMG

Aren't you the one who keeps whinging about people putting words in your mouth?

Please stop character assassinating everyone.
 
LMFAOROFLOMG

Aren't you the one who keeps whinging about people putting words in your mouth?

Please stop character assassinating everyone.

I mean I enjoy watching him assassinate his own character :mischief:
 
I mean I enjoy watching him assassinate his own character :mischief:
He has character? I thought he left that behind when he attended that weird alt-right boot camp where he learned about Neo-Manicheism.
 
*sigh*

You still don't get it. Of course any kind of hate and violence is bad. However ...

- Minority immigrants don't have the power to deny me promotions and raises at work
- They aren't the reason women aren't respected professionally
- They're not controlling gateways and taking advantage of women wanting careers
- They don't have the power to systematically strip me of my rights to my own body

You're doing your "whataboutism" again ... I'm talking about the systematic institutional oppression that white men have and still do to women and minorities, and you're coming back saying "But what about this little threat that's never going to personally affect you???" to deflect from that.

No you don't get it. I am bone sick of your distorted view of the world and twisted rhetoric for one significant reason - a reason shared, in a broad sense, by groups like the Nazis, the KKK, the South African National, and the Rhodesian Front. Because it's all based, obsessively and sickly, around "solid demographics." The things is, I'm not at all a bigot. I'm just not a "demographically restricted" thinker. I believe in raw human potential, and achievement of all by merit and accomplishment, and the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s Dream. Demographic politics and thinking is the big reason why I attack both hard Social Conservatives and hard Social Progressives equally. It is destructive and detrimental. And this why I never agree, because you will not see past "the script."
 
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