Things we must solve before V29

[SilentConfusion]

I think this is more of a bad choice of names, than a real mechanics issue. Sure you don't (in reality) need a mine in the city, but you do need some sort of processing facilities nearby to process the ore (purify/package/etc.) for shipment. I think if the 'mine' buildings (as opposed to improvements) were simply renamed '<ore type> processing facility' (so for example the BUILDING 'copper mine' becomes 'copper processing facility') it would clear up a lot of confusion.

I'll give you that. I think that would be the easiest solution for me.

So is this the ore line currently?

Reveal Ore --> Build Mine Improvement --> Build Ore Processing Facilty (formerly called "Mine" building) --> Build Ore Smelter (or have National Ore Smelter) --> Build Ore Smithing --> Build Units with Ore

Have I got that right? Which of those building require Ore in vicinity?

I agree that it is quite a long chain. I think that might be fine though because the heavy investment in metal making is rewarded with troops that are significantly better.

 

[Koshling]

I'll give you that. I think that would be the easiest solution for me.

So is this the ore line currently?

Reveal Ore --> Build Mine Improvement --> Build Ore Processing Facilty (formerly called "Mine" building) --> Build Ore Smelter (or have National Ore Smelter) --> Build Ore Smithing --> Build Units with Ore

Have I got that right? Which of those building require Ore in vicinity?

I agree that it is quite a long chain. I think that might be fine though because the heavy investment in metal making is rewarded with troops that are significantly better.

Yes that's right. The one that requires vicinity is the ore smelter (the regular one, not the national one)

 

[SilentConfusion]

Yes that's right. The one that requires vicinity is the ore smelter (the regular one, not the national one)

So the Mine building (or Ore Processing Facility) just requires the resource and not vicinity?

 

[Koshling]

So the Mine building (or Ore Processing Facility) just requires the resource and not vicinity?

Er no. Sorry, that's vicinity too. You'd best wait for Hydro for a completely definitive answer

 

[Hydromancerx]

I suggest a ore mine in vicinity of a city should autobuild "Mine" building. If when a worker is going to build a mine on a copper resource in the vicinity of a city and you don't need the copper resource and don't want the extra unhealthiness you could just build the production increasing version of the improvement.

To me if you want to hook up the resource either for ingots or trading it should bring the unhealthiness. As it is now you can still get the ore for trading and just don't build the unhealthy mine in the city. If you have an operation that mines enough metal to trade it should bring unhealthiness to nearby cities.

That's basically what we have been debating about. having it auto-build means the players has less of a choice. And thus can't choose to not have the mine in their city.

Also sometimes its not their choice to have it in the vicinity such as if you discover a tech that reveals a resource in a mine that's already built. Or discovering a new resource from an event. Or even having your workers on automate.

Right now I think it balances both worlds. Having both choice and function.

Personally I will like to see all hydros vicinity resource dependent buildings as gameoption.
EOT for me

Not going to happen. They are one of the cornerstones of C2C. And one of the main reasons I started C2C. I wanted to be able to mod freely to do specifically this stuff. Which is city vicinity buildings and complex dependency webs.

I'll give you that. I think that would be the easiest solution for me.

So is this the ore line currently?

Reveal Ore --> Build Mine Improvement --> Build Ore Processing Facilty (formerly called "Mine" building) --> Build Ore Smelter (or have National Ore Smelter) --> Build Ore Smithing --> Build Units with Ore

Have I got that right? Which of those building require Ore in vicinity?

I agree that it is quite a long chain. I think that might be fine though because the heavy investment in metal making is rewarded with troops that are significantly better.

I am keeping the name "Mine" because there are other "mines" that do not have a map resource such as Nickel Mine, Mercury Mine, etc. Remember there are a lot more combo city vicinity buildings than there are map resources.

And it goes ...

Main
Iron Ore (Resource) -> Mine (Improvement) -> Iron Mine (Building in Vicinity) -> Iron Smelter -> Iron Ingot (Resource) -> Ironsmith (Building) + Forge/Foundry (Building) -> Iron Wares (Resource)

Alternate
Iron Ore (Resource) -> National Iron Smelter -> Iron Ingot (Resource) -> Ironsmith (Building) + Forge/Foundry (Building) -> Iron Wares (Resource)

 

[SilentConfusion]

@Hydro: The following is my understanding of the copper ore to axemen production line. Am I correct?

For city with vicinity (copper as example):
Reveal Copper --> Improve Copper tile with mine and route (get copper ore) --> Build Copper Mine building --> Build Copper Smelter (get copper ingots) --> Build Copper Smithing (get copper wares) --> Build copper-based units

For city with only ore resource and not vicinity (copper as example):
Be connected to copper ore resource (whether through trade or domestic connection to copper) --> Build Copper Mine building --> Build National Copper Smelter (get copper ingots) --> Build Copper Smithing (get copper wares) --> Build copper-based units

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Note you don't need copper to build axemen you just build them faster with copper. In fact I don't think there are any units that require copper or bronze. There are units that require iron however.

Horse/camel/elephant units I never use before cavalry. If I get the Bear/Rhino/Mammoth Trainer I may build them. Even when I have the Zebra/Giraffe/Deer Trainer(s) I don't build those units.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@SilentConfusion

Mostly. You also need a Forge or Foundry in the city you plan to build the Coppermsith in. Note the Forge/Foundry needs Charcoal which can be built by a Charcoal Burner or other fire related building such as a Fire Pit or Bonfire.

In addition the Coppersmith doesn't have to be built in the same city as the Copper Mine since all it requires are the Copper Ingots from the Copper Smelter (or National Copper Smelter).

 

[strategyonly]

Horse/camel/elephant units I never use before cavalry. If I get the Bear/Rhino/Mammoth Trainer I may build them. Even when I have the Zebra/Giraffe/Deer Trainer(s) I don't build those units.

Same here, i dont use any of those either, infact i dont use ANY of the Culture Units either.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Why don't you guys use early mounted units? They are great to use for surround and destroy since you can have your main stack attack a city and then send out your quick mounted units to surround the entire city.

They are also very useful for taking out those pesky war dogs that always seem to want to plunder my lands.

 

[strategyonly]

Why don't you guys use early mounted units? They are great to use for surround and destroy since you can have your main stack attack a city and then send out your quick mounted units to surround the entire city.

They are also very useful for taking out those pesky war dogs that always seem to want to plunder my lands.

I dont see any dogs around until Renaissance Era, and i dont even do any fighting till after late Classical Era. Then i might pick off the closest Barbarian city or Civ around but thats it, because for some odd reason civs EXPAND but dont do much of anything else. (lately)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why don't you guys use early mounted units? They are great to use for surround and destroy since you can have your main stack attack a city and then send out your quick mounted units to surround the entire city.

They are also very useful for taking out those pesky war dogs that always seem to want to plunder my lands.

1) Foot with siege are sufficient.

2) I have never had a serious war before Iron Working. In fact except for a couple of small but serious wars of no more than 20 turns I don't do war! Which is probably why I value olives over copper.

3) I have a number of units just patrolling my borders - old highly upgraded hunter line units and packs of my own dogs. This seems to be enough to keep out the bandits during peace.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I dont see any dogs around until Renaissance Era, and i dont even do any fighting till after late Classical Era. Then i might pick off the closest Barbarian city or Civ around but thats it, because for some odd reason civs EXPAND but dont do much of anything else. (lately)

You are lucky then. In one of my recent games in the prehistoric era my improvements kept getting destroyed by dogs. Which really sucks since they were made by gatherers and took a very long time to make them. Plus it used up the gatherer.

 

[strategyonly]

You are lucky then. In one of my recent games in the prehistoric era my improvements kept getting destroyed by dogs. Which really sucks since they were made by gatherers and took a very long time to make them. Plus it used up the gatherer.

I bet you are on Snail then, see i use marathon, i wont play a Snail game, UNless i really want to play and not test. Sometimes i have 3-4 games going at the same time.

 

[Koshling]

I believe the only thing left we need to resolve before we can release V29 is the outstanding residual promotion loss issue? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12305075&postcount=822).

Anyway, I have nothing further and do not plan to make any further changes prior to V29.

 

[strategyonly]

Just remembered, when we get past v29 we need someone to look into the Events and why they are NOT firing the way they are supposed to, ie: Spartacus, it just doesn't fire at all anymore

 

[Hydromancerx]

Has the Battering Ram problem been resolved? Right now they are almost useless since the bombard city button is missing.

Anyone else having trouble with siege unit bombarding? For some reason the rams don't have the bombard button anymore in my game. I know they don't get ranged bombardment but they should at least be able to reduce city defenses.

Yes, In Ancient Era, I have rams than can´t do anything but defend themself; and they havn´t the bombard button.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I believe the only thing left we need to resolve before we can release V29 is the outstanding residual promotion loss issue? (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12305075&postcount=822).

Anyway, I have nothing further and do not plan to make any further changes prior to V29.

Ah... that's not a promotion loss issue according to the pics... its a non-functioning tag issue. In the first pic, it's clear the promo and the tag is in use on that unit. In the ensuing pics, you don't see the promotion having been lost on the unit, only proof that its not functioning properly. I didn't touch anything regarding that but there could've been some kind of residual issue stemming from a tweak to the Read Wrapper. That's a slim chance though I think... I don't know what would've caused this effect otherwise... possibly a copy paste oops? I can review the changelog and see if anything stands out as changed regarding the movement tag... Still, again, that seems unlikely considering the tag displays properly on the promo.

I don't know what others have been doing in the code though so the theories I can present are limited to a possibility that I was at fault where that may not be the case here.


A review on bombard xmls is also in order for a bugfix on the list - but that rams don't have the bombard ability showing was not a part of the understanding of the other problem there. Do all bombardable units suffer this problem right now or only rams for some reason? That would suggest an xml problem if its only rams... maybe someone already attempted the fix I have on my list there and did something wrong with rams? I dunno... I'll be reviewing the xml on bombardment anyhow.

 

[ls612]

Ah... that's not a promotion loss issue according to the pics... its a non-functioning tag issue. In the first pic, it's clear the promo and the tag is in use on that unit. In the ensuing pics, you don't see the promotion having been lost on the unit, only proof that its not functioning properly. I didn't touch anything regarding that but there could've been some kind of residual issue stemming from a tweak to the Read Wrapper. That's a slim chance though I think... I don't know what would've caused this effect otherwise... possibly a copy paste oops? I can review the changelog and see if anything stands out as changed regarding the movement tag... Still, again, that seems unlikely considering the tag displays properly on the promo.

I don't know what others have been doing in the code though so the theories I can present are limited to a possibility that I was at fault where that may not be the case here.


A review on bombard xmls is also in order for a bugfix on the list - but that rams don't have the bombard ability showing was not a part of the understanding of the other problem there. Do all bombardable units suffer this problem right now or only rams for some reason? That would suggest an xml problem if its only rams... maybe someone already attempted the fix I have on my list there and did something wrong with rams? I dunno... I'll be reviewing the xml on bombardment anyhow.

Is there any chance of this being done in an hour or two? Or should I put back the release to tomorrow night (so it will be available Sunday morning).

 

[Hydromancerx]

A review on bombard xmls is also in order for a bugfix on the list - but that rams don't have the bombard ability showing was not a part of the understanding of the other problem there. Do all bombardable units suffer this problem right now or only rams for some reason? That would suggest an xml problem if its only rams... maybe someone already attempted the fix I have on my list there and did something wrong with rams? I dunno... I'll be reviewing the xml on bombardment anyhow.

Unlike catapults, rams only do city bombard. Normally on say a catapult you have 2 bombarding buttons, city bombard and ranged bombard. Rams, sicne they lack the ranged bombard are only good for reducing the city defenses since they cannot attack (they only defend). Having this button missing means all they can do is sit there doing nothing except if something attacks it. Making them mostly useless now.

Note that they have a major purpose for early siege in that they come much earlier than catapults. They can allow you to take down city defenses even though they lack ranged bombardment. Catapults of couse are better later on but for that window of time, a stack of rams is great in helping your other units get past a cities defenses.