This time they went too far.

It doesn't. Most Israeli Arabs identify as Palestinian themselves. They just aren't brainwashed by Palestinian media into their culture of victimhood, so they are reasonably tolerant of Israel.
You don't think that there's a need for a "Jewish state", then?

So is Russia, officially. So is Turkey, officially. Russia does genocide against Chechens. Turkey is becoming anti-Semitic and authoritarian. Why don't they get as much attention as Israel?
Russia generally gets more attention in the British press than Israel does. Turkey tends to be overlooked, but I think the last two weeks might have corrected that.

Well, I would agree with you that they didn't act as politically one, but there certainly were connections between Jewish communities regardless of nationality. I wasn't alive before Israel was created, so maybe I'll ask my grandmother when I'm in Israel.
There were connections between Jewish communities, but there were also connections between Catholic communities, and nobody would suggest that Catholics in Chile, Ireland and the Philippines constituted at once a single "people". I think that it's possible to understand the relatedness of Jewish tradition and identity without flattening it down into a single, universal essence.

European Jews were essentially a single people, and Israel was intended to be a state for them. Ethiopian or Kaifeng Jews weren't exactly roaring Zionists before Israel was founded. I don't think Ben-Gurion intended to take in the Jews from Arab and African countries, but that's the way it happened (although in retrospect it should have been obvious it would turn out that way, due to the non-assimilation and religious unity of the global Jewish community- so you might say that the Jews were a nation in hiatus).
Even "European Jews" is, historically, a very nebulous category. Apart from the obvious division between Ashkenazim and Shepardim, as well as minor communities like the Romaniotes, the Italian rite, the Caucasian communities, etc., specific ethnic divisions often contained considerable diversity within themselves, and, at least outside of the Russian Empire, your average European Jew probably had more in common with his Gentile neighbours so far as non-religious matters were concerned than with a foreign Jew. It's only with the Nazi persecutions, when Jews across Europe were submitted to a systematic violence that paid absolutely no heed to their diversity, do most European Jews start to see themselves as a discrete people, and that more because the trauma of the Holocaust makes it (quite understandably) very difficult for them to ever trust European Gentiles again, than because of any positive rediscovery of latent nationhood.
 
You don't think that there's a need for a "Jewish state", then?

There is. They don't consider themselves Israeli, but I'm betting that the same applies to Arabs in France, or Turks in Bulgaria. They don't think of themselves of having the same identity as their nation. During the Intifada some Israeli Arabs who were torn between their loyalties even said "my state is at war with my nation."

Russia generally gets more attention in the British press than Israel does. Turkey tends to be overlooked, but I think the last two weeks might have corrected that.

And deservedly so. Still, the scope of what Israel does is so tiny in comparison to Russia, that it should barely be known in Britain, much less systematically exaggerated in order to paint Israelis as Nazis.

There were connections between Jewish communities, but there were also connections between Catholic communities, and nobody would suggest that Catholics in Chile, Ireland and the Philippines constituted at once a single "people". I think that it's possible to understand the relatedness of Jewish tradition and identity without flattening it down into a single, universal essence.

No, Judaism or Islam have cultural and linguistic traditions; Catholicism (at least for the common man) did not. And look at how even Christian factionalism gave birth to nations. Belgium wasn't much different from the Netherlands, except it happened to be Catholic. It's a lot more effective when the mythology has a common national theme (the ancient Israelite nation), they have a common language (Yiddish), and they aren't allowed to marry Gentiles. I think that that pre-Zionist Ashkenazi Jews were even more closely tied as linguistically similar Arabs were to each other (although I'm not exactly knowledgeable about pre-20th century Arab politics).

Even "European Jews" is, historically, a very nebulous category. Apart from the obvious division between Ashkenazim and Shepardim, as well as minor communities like the Romaniotes, the Italian rite, the Caucasian communities, etc., specific ethnic divisions often contained considerable diversity within themselves, and, at least outside of the Russian Empire, your average European Jew probably had more in common with his Gentile neighbours so far as non-religious matters were concerned than with a foreign Jew. It's only with the Nazi persecutions, when Jews across Europe were submitted to a systematic violence that paid absolutely no heed to their diversity, do most European Jews start to see themselves as a discrete people, and that more because the trauma of the Holocaust makes it (quite understandably) very difficult for them to ever trust European Gentiles again, than because of any positive rediscovery of latent nationhood.

Not really. Where are you getting these assumptions from? Nationalism had more to do with it, although the Holocaust certainly did speed things along.
 
There is. They don't consider themselves Israeli, but I'm betting that the same applies to Arabs in France, or Turks in Bulgaria. They don't think of themselves of having the same identity as their nation. During the Intifada some Israeli Arabs who were torn between their loyalties even said "my state is at war with my nation."

Interesting point. Ofcourse, prior to 1948 there was no such thing as a Jewish nation.

And deservedly so. Still, the scope of what Israel does is so tiny in comparison to Russia, that it should barely be known in Britain, much less systematically exaggerated in order to paint Israelis as Nazis.

Which leaves aside the point why Israel's actions should be compared to Russia's in the first place.

No, Judaism or Islam have cultural and linguistic traditions; Catholicism (at least for the common man) did not. And look at how even Christian factionalism gave birth to nations. Belgium wasn't much different from the Netherlands, except it happened to be Catholic. It's a lot more effective when the mythology has a common national theme (the ancient Israelite nation), they have a common language (Yiddish), and they aren't allowed to marry Gentiles. I think that that pre-Zionist Ashkenazi Jews were even more closely tied as linguistically similar Arabs were to each other (although I'm not exactly knowledgeable about pre-20th century Arab politics).

Nor about Belgium apparently. The fact that Belgians were predominantly Catholic wasn't so much a factor as the fact that the Dutch government favoured Dutch as a state language (the opera that sparked the initial revolution was French, typically) and that Dutch were favoured in civil service over Belgians. (Also, ofcourse, the 2 predominantly Catholic Dutch provinces of North Brabant and Limburg did not partake in the revolt.)

As per Jewish language: there is none. (As already pointed out.) Yiddish is Askenazim. And I'm interested to know who forbade Ashkenazim to marry gentiles.
 
Nor about Belgium apparently. The fact that Belgians were predominantly Catholic wasn't so much a factor as the fact that the Dutch government favoured Dutch as a state language (the opera that sparked the initial revolution was French, typically) and that Dutch were favoured in civil service over Belgians. (Also, ofcourse, the 2 predominantly Catholic Dutch provinces of North Brabant and Limburg did not partake in the revolt.)

It doesn't explain why the Flemish were willing to rise up against us (yes, us! :goodjob:). It had definitely something to do with Catholicism, and it almost certainly played a role in the civil service discrimination. In fact, the idea Belgian of identity is now losing credibility due to secularization. The Flemish-Walloon dispute would never trouble Belgian politics if the two were somehow united by their Catholic identity - which is now a shambles.

Limburg and North Brabant did not partook in the revolt, but neither were most Belgian provinces. But nevertheless, we were quite lucky not to lose these provinces too, which quite nearly happened.
 
Which leaves aside the point why Israel's actions should be compared to Russia's in the first place.

Basic moral comparison?

As per Jewish language: there is none. (As already pointed out.) Yiddish is Askenazim.

Pre-Zionist rabbis and scholars knew Hebrew.

And I'm interested to know who forbade Ashkenazim to marry gentiles.

We just couldn't stand the smell.

Oh, wait, the Talmud. And I don't recall it only being accepted for white Jews.
 
I'm curious, what does the "Turkey is becoming anti-semitic" refer to? I hope it's not just their foreign policy that earned them this label.
 
Isn't that rather like saying 12th century monks "knew" "Latin"?

Yes, obviously. They're a link between communities.

I'm curious, what does the "Turkey is becoming anti-semitic" refer to? I hope it's not just their foreign policy that earned them this label.

No, the ruling party (forgot the name) is quasi-anti-Semitic, and so are a few of Erdogan's statements. Everyone who wants to be powerful in Middle East needs to make a big deal over the Palestinians. What do you think that flotilla was for?
 
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