Thoughts/Information on Start Bias?

[SJSerio]

Japan had the third largest Navy in the world by 1920. By the beginning of WW2, Japan had the largest carrier fleet in the world and third largest fleet overall. Saying that the IJN was "nothing" compared to the RN, especially during the late-20s to early 40s is off.

If I am not mistaken, the Japanese navy evolved from the Samurai class. That is probably why they became a force to reckon with. Also, if I remember my history correctly, the Royal Navy came as a response to the Spanish Navy, which was perhaps even greater at that time.

Anyway, just throwing out my two cents!

To the topic: I am OK with it! Though, I would like the option for Cultural Starts as well. I do wonder if the Civs will be tied to the different tilesets in the game, which would cause a similar affect?!?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'm very glad to see this, as long as it doesn't go beyond just making sure the unique abilities are all able to be used. My biggest fear about Civ5 is the English and the Ottomans would have a chance to have a totally worthless special ability. I'll always play with this option on.

Imagine being in a multiplayer game with 2 other friends. If it weren't for this, I'd be afraid to ever pick the Ottomans!

Then again, the Spihai is best suited for wide open spaces, isn't it? Seems like the Ottomans need to be near the coast, but still have access to lots of land. I wonder if this system can handle that.

 

[Lyoncet]

I don't think those two (Barbary Corsairs and getting good use out of the Sepahi) are that mutually exclusive. Besides, do we have confirmation on the extent of Start Bias? I assume that it would start the Ottomans and English pretty close to water, Iriquois by forests, etc., but I don't think it will, as one earlier poster implied, start Russia next to extra iron, horse and uranium. I can see, however, start biases making sure that each civ has at least some strategic resources for each era (not to the extent of everybody having the same amount of everything, but at least everyone having a bit of something).

 

[Sonereal]

If I am not mistaken, the Japanese navy evolved from the Samurai class. That is probably why they became a force to reckon with. Also, if I remember my history correctly, the Royal Navy came as a response to the Spanish Navy, which was perhaps even greater at that time.

Anyway, just throwing out my two cents!

To the topic: I am OK with it! Though, I would like the option for Cultural Starts as well. I do wonder if the Civs will be tied to the different tilesets in the game, which would cause a similar affect?!?

The Spanish Armada? Extremely awesome.

 

[Psyringe]

I think start bias is a very good idea to have as an option.

It's a bit awkward when (for example) the Dutch get an inland start with few rivers. They can't make much use of their unique unit (a ship), nor of their unique building (a levee, which can only be build in cities on rivers). "Start bias" is a good way to overcome this problem.

Personally, I would've chosen a different approach: Tying "unique" units and buildings to terrain features, game events etc., so an inland Dutch empire with lots of horse resources might get special units and buildings related to horses, not to seas and rivers. But Firaxis' solution will work well too.

And it's a good thing that they made it an option. The "culture-dependent start" feature from Civ3 showed that some players want realism and "real" history to be taken into account when placing civs on the map, while others prefer placement to be very random.

 

[Tarkhan]

Dynamic UUs would be interesting - your UU is tied not to your leader or civ, but where you start....

I think Start Bias makes sense, however. Lets people play the civ they want, not whichever one has an advantage on the map type.

 

[dagriggstar]

One of my pet hates about civ IV was that alot of the time I'd find that the AI's didn't get the resources they needed to build their UU's. I mean what is the point of playing against Greece if they can't build their UU ?

So yea, I'll be making full use of this feature

 

[Alki]

If I am not mistaken, the Japanese navy evolved from the Samurai class. That is probably why they became a force to reckon with. Also, if I remember my history correctly, the Royal Navy came as a response to the Spanish Navy, which was perhaps even greater at that time.

Pfft. Our navy kicked the beejeesus out of the Spanish and French navies at the same time. Will a man as awesome as Horatia ever be seen again?

 

[12agnar0k]

Your looking at him, well okay, your looking at his typed words on the internet.

 

[r_rolo1]

Yes, but the Royal Navy was around for 300-500 years as the premier navy in the world. Japan's navy was a force to be reckoned with for less than 100 years.

@ the 300-500 yrs estimation

Just think on this, in 1688 the Dutch were able to make landing almost in the English capital, a sure sign of naval superiority of the Dutch over the English at the time, no? And in the end of the XIX century, by the words of the English governement itself , the Germans had acheived naval parity with the English.... So if you say "somewhere near 200 yrs" it might be more truthful

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, the Germans didn't actually achieve naval parity (the British just thought they did). I would agree that their naval superiority was established by the Seven Years War (maybe a bit before, the French had a solid navy, so it's tough to tell) and was supreme until about the 1940s. But yeah, no more than 250-300 years.

 

[ilikepies]

The Greeks had an excellent navy as well, don't forget them!

The way this should work is not that it generates the map according to your civ locations, but it generates your civ locations according to the map. Rome should not automatically have easy access to iron aplenty, but if there is a starting area near extra iron, Rome should be more likely to get it. Otherwise a civ like Russia, with it's resource oriented powers, would always get ridiculous amounts of resources and godly starting locations, while a nation like China would have no start bonuses.

 

[nekom]

I hadn't heard of this before, but it sounds like it would do a lot to add to the balance of any given game, so I would assume I'll be leaving this option firmly in the `ON' position.

 

[Rusty Edge]

Pfft. Our navy kicked the beejeesus out of the Spanish and French navies at the same time. Will a man as awesome as Horatia ever be seen again?

I'd argue that a man as awesome ( an accomplished spymaster, inventor, and military genius ) existed contemporeneously-
http://www.fireshippress.com/servlet/the-118/Life-and-Correspondence-of/Detail

Afterall, he is the man Napoleon blamed for robbing him of his destiny.

 

[DJSven22]

This can't possibly be true. I play as Bismarck a lot and always start off with desert or Jungle. It happens virtually every time.

 

[Morningcalm]

When people talk about "tilesets" in this game, I have no idea what they're talking about. Tiles don't look any different to me no matter which leader I'm starting with. Sure, some leaders have more of X tile than other (Hiawatha--forest tiles), but as for the actual forests/continental styles, I see no difference. Asia has no bamboo forests in this game. And all the mountains look the same. *shrug*

Maybe I missed something? Someone post screenies here of different start locales/tilesets and we'll talk.

 

[crazedcivplayer]

merely because the dutch navy sailed up the thames doesn't mean it was more powerful than the british navy. The british navy was less of a response to the spanish navy and more of a gradual assertion of naval supremacy as a response to increasingly invested interest in trade which at that time, as had been the case for the last 2000 years, was chiefly conducted by sea. the naval supremacy of the british during the height of britain's imperial power is mostly unquestionable but it is important to remember that this meant the british fleets were spread out thinly (like a thin red blanket over the world's oceans...) and could only really assert their supremacy over determined, powerful enemies such as the french and spanish during long wars when it was worth remobilizing fleets. even today i quote from a website devoted to this kind of debate: The Royal Navy’s ability to project power globally is considered second only to the US Navy. _____ it is important to bear in mind though how great the gap between second and first is though; about tenfold


to get back to the real topic here though, have a look at this, i'm not sure whether it's reliable
http://gaming.stackexchange.com/que...t-is-the-starting-bias-for-different-factions

 

[Truthy]

I don't like start bias. I don't think it is very fun to be always stranded in the desert when I play as middle eastern civs.

 

[Becephalus]

Really an 8 month old thread?

 

[Lose]

i wish there was a way for japan and england to always start on their own island.