[C3C] Three Civs but Only Two Luxury Types?

[Jivilov]

Playing as Alexander on Standard map, all else Random at Emperor. While sharing a Continent with Arabs and Scandinavians noticed that only two luxury types--Wines and Dyes--existed on our landmass. In his viddies Suede CivIII pointed out that there should be a Lux for each Civ, so why not in this case? A recent save is attached to inform your deliberations:

 

[tjs282]

In his viddies Suede CivIII pointed out that there should be a Lux for each Civ, so why not in this case?

RNG screwing with you?

My first thought when I read your post was that your 'missing' Lux might have been on an island nearby your continent, but now I've looked at your save, I see that (you've revealed the whole map and) the other 6 Luxes are all over on the other major continent, which spawned only 5 Civs. I suppose it's possible that the map-generator could have been 'confused' by that corner-to-corner chokepoint between Amsterdam and The Hague, and treated that eastern section as a separate continent for the purposes of resource-distribution, but that seems unlikely.

Or it's possible you misunderstood Suede's point. The total number of each Lux (or Strat)-resource placed on the map at game-start is certainly related to the total number of Civs on the map (so e.g. if you play with only 1 AI-opponent, expect a very resource-poor map!), but it's not a direct 1:1 relationship.

Even if your interpretation is correct, though, it could only apply up to Standard-size maps. Can't guarantee 1 Lux(-type) per Civ when there are 12 or 16 (or 31!) Civs on a map -- especially given the tendency of Luxes to 'cluster'.

 

[r16]

and it should be noted that there are still a luxury for every civ but you must discover ocean trade and the like .

 

[Jivilov]

Thanks tjs282 and r16.

@tjs282: Going back to Suede's 101 Tips and Tricks he says at around 21:25 "There will generally be the same number of players that spawn on a continent as there are luxuries." Didn't catch his "generally" qualification at the time; thanks for cluing me in.

@r16: It may please you to know that at this point in the same game two additional luxes have been secured through seaborne invasion of Spain with two Cav Armies, Artillery, Infantry and more Cavs. Trades with Willem and Joan have secured two more so now, after spending much of this epic on 30% Lux Slider, it's now down to zero. All cities are happy while Isabella is history.

BTW this brings up another question: Do RoP agreements allow you use of other Civs' Harbors? Reason I ask is 'cuz even before building a Harbor in Marathon on the other Continent the seized Lux was available in my home cities. Was this due to my RoP with Willem? We share a border--two actually, since formerly Spanish territory is split much like erstwhile West and East Pakistan--if that makes any difference. Thanks.

 

[tjs282]

BTW this brings up another question: Do RoP agreements allow you use of other Civs' Harbors? Reason I ask is 'cuz even before building a Harbor in Marathon on the other Continent the seized Lux was available in my home cities. Was this due to my RoP with Willem? We share a border--two actually, since formerly Spanish territory is split much like erstwhile West and East Pakistan--if that makes any difference. Thanks.

(Assuming you have the tech to trade over Seas/Oceans) You don't even need an RoP to use an overseas Civ's Harbour(s), you just need to be at peace with them — and also with anyone whose territory the road from the resource goes through, to get to that Harbour(s).

 

[r16]

would it be possible for some other civ to have sea/ocean trade so that you could use resources overseas ? The mod ı stick to gives the harbour's ability (to connect with others to carry resources) to the palace and ı have been surprised at times that my stuff on an other continent becoming available before ı had the required things .

 

[Jivilov]

@ tjs282: Hadn't realized this before. Yes Navigation is known. Of course being at war can change everything, which in this case validated the building of a Harbor anyway, in the interests of national security of course. After all Willem was on the verge of being wiped out by Joan so yours truly simply helped the process along . BTW there are four Luxes on that sub-continent east of the isthmus. Got all flavors now, so nyet problemy except for Joan, who clings like a barnacle to one Silk (of two) on the coast. An inadvertent mouse-click during what I thought was the cancellation of a long-standing trade deal for Spices obliges me to wait seventeen turns for it to expire before having a go at her empire.

No biggie. Tanks will show up shortly so it provides a breathing spell while forces gather. Already have Airports to airlift them while two Army Leaders are already in place to form Pentagon-sized Armies when they arrive. Too bad Joan is Fascist now and several Techs behind owing to the usual Theory of Evolution pre-build. Ain't it grand?

 

[tjs282]

would it be possible for some other civ to have sea/ocean trade so that you could use resources overseas ? The mod ı stick to gives the harbour's ability (to connect with others to carry resources) to the palace and ı have been surprised at times that my stuff on an other continent becoming available before ı had the required things .

Not sure, but I do know that in the epic game, it's possible to trade Maps with someone who knows Navigation, or sign MPPs with someone who knows Nationalism, even when you don't know either of those techs yourself.

So being able to trade resources overseas, with an AI who's learnt the relevant tech(s) before you did, does sound plausible.

(Though it does seem like a programming stuff-up: IMHO it would have been 'better'/more logical if both parties were required to know the deal-enabling tech, before such deals could be made)

If we're talking mods, though, could the ability to trade resources over (at least) Sea-tiles also have been conferred by a Wonder? In the epic game, the Great Lighthouse prevents ships from sinking in Sea tiles, but I can't remember if that particular Wonder-flag simply counters the unit-attribute "Sinks in Sea", or if it's considered equivalent to the 'Allows safe Sea travel' tech-flag, which enables overseas resource trading?

(Also can't remember offhand if there's an "Allows safe Ocean travel"-equivalent Wonder-flag)

 

[justanick]

If we're talking mods, though, could the ability to trade resources over (at least) Sea-tiles also have been conferred by a Wonder? In the epic game, the Great Lighthouse prevents ships from sinking in Sea tiles, but I can't remember if that particular Wonder-flag simply counters the unit-attribute "Sinks in Sea", or if it's considered equivalent to the 'Allows safe Sea travel' tech-flag, which enables overseas resource trading?

The Great Lighthouse allows trade over sea tiles.

https://wiki.civforum.de/wiki/Großer_Leuchtturm_(Civ3)

 

[r16]

ı beeline for the Great Lighthouse equivalent if am playing the favourite civ and the memories of trade being available are from earlier times when ı would loose the wonder to others or it wasn't yet built(?) but probably it is indeed about anyone completing it and palaces providing trade links .

 

[Jivilov]

would it be possible for some other civ to have sea/ocean trade so that you could use resources overseas ? The mod ı stick to gives the harbour's ability (to connect with others to carry resources) to the palace and ı have been surprised at times that my stuff on an other continent becoming available before ı had the required things .

Almost positive this is so. If another Civ has Navigation it allows trans-oceanic trade with them (but not everybody else). Since it's an optional Tech I usually trade for it later while enjoying the fruits of their research. Of course if they don't have it you're SoL (shucks outta luck).