Time to get rid of the Monarchy?

Should the UK get rid of the Monarchy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 33 42.3%
  • No

    Votes: 26 33.3%
  • Radioactive monkeys should rule all countries

    Votes: 19 24.4%

  • Total voters
    78
or Jefferson or Connolly or Shelley or any number of other famous republicans and anti-monarchists.
All I am pointing out is that just abolishing monarchy did not lead to utopia. In fact in many cases it lead to massive unrest- I am sure French people were happy under reign of terror under Robespierre.

That's a hard yikes from me
That is true... or rather it was very important as you could say modern Western society was built from them... there is a reason why ENGLISH is global language today.
 
All I am pointing out is that just abolishing monarchy did not lead to utopia. In fact in many cases it lead to massive unrest- I am sure French people were happy under reign of terror under Robespierre.

I do not believe in utopia.

But a world which is better, freer, more just, and more equal than our present one cannot and so must not have monarchs.
 
Montfort didn't abolish monarchy so I don't know why you included him. Cromwell was a monarchy all but a name and Tom Paine was American.
Montfort and Cromwell both curtailed the power of the monarchy. Paine was from Thetford in Norfolk, England.
 
Yeah, I was referring to when the US became a meaningful power. It was with Napoleon doubling their land with the Louisiana Purchase. He even was conscious of what it would lead to - the fall of Britain as the greatest power.

Then again, you could attribute the rise of the US to Spain too - since Napoleon didn't own most of the land he sold the US, but Spain was at the time under his boot due to the peninsular war.
Your version of history is wrong. The LP happened between 1800 and 1803; the Peninsula War was in 1808.

France ceded the territory to Spain in 1762 in the secret Treaty of Fontainebleau. Following French defeat in the Seven Years' War, Spain gained control of the territory west of the Mississippi, and the British received the territory to the east of the river. Following the establishment of the United States, the Americans controlled the area east of the Mississippi and north of New Orleans.

Third Treaty of San Ildefonso​

Preliminary and Secret Treaty between the French Republic and His Catholic Majesty the King of Spain, Concerning the Aggrandizement of His Royal Highness the Infant Duke of Parma in Italy and the Retrocession of Louisiana.
Map showing 11 major regions of the US at the start of the 19th century and dates of when they entered the union
North America; Louisiana-New Spain in purple
ContextSpain agrees to exchange Louisiana with France for territories in Italy
Signed1 October 1800[1]
LocationReal Sitio de San Ildefonso
Negotiators
  • 23px-Flag_of_Spain_%281785%E2%80%931873%2C_1875%E2%80%931931%29.svg.png
    Mariano Luis de Urquijo
  • 23px-Flag_of_France_%281794%E2%80%931815%2C_1830%E2%80%931974%2C_2020%E2%80%93present%29.svg.png
    Louis-Alexandre Berthier
Parties

The Third Treaty of San Ildefonso was a secret agreement signed on 1 October 1800 between the Spanish Empire and the French Republic by which Spain agreed in principle to exchange its North American colony of Louisiana for territories in Tuscany. The terms were later confirmed by the March 1801 Treaty of Aranjuez.

The combination of French ambition and Spanish weakness made the return of Louisiana attractive to both, especially as Spain was being drawn into disputes with the U.S. over navigation rights on the Mississippi River. Talleyrand claimed French possession of Louisiana would allow them to protect Spanish South America from both Britain and the U.S.

Provisions
[edit]
The Treaty was negotiated by French general Louis-Alexandre Berthier and the Spanish former Chief Minister Mariano Luis de Urquijo. In addition to Louisiana, Berthier was instructed to demand the Spanish colonies of East Florida and West Florida, plus ten Spanish warships.[9]

Urquijo rejected the request for the Floridas but agreed to Louisiana plus "...six ships of war in good condition built for seventy-four guns, armed and equipped and ready to receive French crews and supplies." In return, Charles IV wanted compensation for his son-in-law Louis, Infanta Duke of Parma, since France wanted to annex his inheritance of the Duchy of Parma.[10]

Details were vague, Clause II of the Treaty simply stating "it may consist of Tuscany...or the three Roman legations or of any other continental provinces of Italy which form a rounded state." Urquijo insisted Spain would hand over Louisiana and the ships only once France confirmed which Italian territories it would receive in return. Finally, the terms reaffirmed the alliance between France and Spain agreed upon in the 1796 Second Treaty of San Ildefonso.[11]

Aftermath[edit]​

On 9 February 1801, France and the Austrian Emperor Francis II signed the Treaty of Lunéville, clearing the way for the Treaty of Aranjuez in March 1801. This confirmed the preliminary terms agreed at Ildefonso and created the short-lived Kingdom of Etruria for Maria Luisa's son-in-law Louis.[12] Spain's Chief Minister Manuel Godoy was excoriated for the terms, which were seen as excessively benefiting France; he later justified it at length in his Memoirs.[13] Modern historians are less critical, since Spain exercised effective control only over a small part of the territory included in the 1803 Louisiana Purchase while an attempt to control U.S. expansion into Spanish territories by the 1795 Pinckney's Treaty proved ineffective.

From 1798 to 1800, France and the U.S. waged an undeclared war at sea, the so-called Quasi-War, which was ended by the Convention of 1800 or Treaty of Mortefontaine. With an already hostile British Canada to the north, the U.S. wanted to avoid an aggressive and powerful France replacing Spain in the south. For commercial reasons, Napoleon wanted to reestablish France's presence in North America, the November 1801 Saint-Domingue expedition being the first step.[14] The March 1802 Treaty of Amiens ended the War of the Second Coalition and in October, Spain transferred Louisiana to France.[15]

While the presence of 30,000 French troops and sailors in the Caribbean initially caused great concern in the U.S., by October 1802 it was clear the expedition was a catastrophic failure; its leader, General Charles Leclerc died of yellow fever, along with an estimated 29,000 men by mid-summer.[16] Without Saint-Domingue, Napoleon concluded Louisiana was irrelevant, and with France and Britain once again on the verge of hostilities, he decided to sell the territory to prevent it from being annexed by British forces garrisoned in nearby Canada. In April 1803, the U.S. purchased the territory for $15 million, or 80 million francs.[17]

The elaborate shuffling of Italian territories was ultimately futile. Etruria was dissolved and incorporated into France in 1807, while much of pre-Napoleonic Italy was restored by the Congress of Vienna in 1815, including the Grand Duchies of Tuscany and Parma.
 
Typical values embodied by the monarchy such as personal commitment, constance, selflessness…

King Charles’s staff given redundancy notice during church service for Queen

Exclusive: Employees said to be livid and shaken as up to 100 Clarence House employees told they could lose jobs

Spoiler :
Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.


Private secretaries, the finance office, the communications team and household staff are among those who received notice during the thanksgiving service for the Queen, at St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Monday, that their posts were on the line.

Many staff had assumed they would be amalgamated into the King’s new household, claiming they were given no indication of what was coming until the letter from Sir Clive Alderton, the King’s top aide, arrived. One source said: “Everybody is absolutely livid, including private secretaries and the senior team. All the staff have been working late every night since Thursday, to be met with this. People were visibly shaken by it.”

In his letter, seen by the Guardian, Alderton wrote: “The change in role for our principals will also mean change for our household … The portfolio of work previously undertaken in this household supporting the former Prince of Wales’s personal interests, former activities and household operations will no longer be carried out, and the household … at Clarence House will be closed down. It is therefore expected that the need for the posts principally based at Clarence House, whose work supports these areas will no longer be needed.”

The King’s private secretary added: “I appreciate that this is unsettling news and I wanted to let you know of the support that is available at this point.”

He added that certain staff providing “direct, close, personal support and advice” to Charles and Camilla would remain in post. No final decisions are understood to have been taken, as a consultation period, which will begin after the state funeral next Monday, needs to be completed first.

Staff who are made redundant are expected to be offered searches for alternative employment across all royal households, assistance in finding new jobs externally and an “enhanced” redundancy payment beyond the statutory minimum.

A Clarence House spokesman said: “Following last week’s accession, the operations of the household of the former Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall have ceased and, as required by law, a consultation process has begun. Our staff have given long and loyal service and, while some redundancies will be unavoidable, we are working urgently to identify alternative roles for the greatest number of staff.”

It has not yet been confirmed whether the King and Queen Consort will eventually live at Buckingham Palace. At present, only parts of Buckingham Palace are habitable as it is undergoing major reservicing works that are expected to last years.

There is speculation that the King, who is rumoured not to be particularly fond of the palace, would use it for official purposes such as receptions, audiences, investitures and banquets, while retaining nearby Clarence House as his London home.

When his office was asked about this in 2017, when he was still Prince of Wales, officials said that Buckingham Palace would remain as the headquarters of the monarchy and official home of the sovereign. No detailed information about his likely living arrangements have been given recently.

According to Clarence House’s annual review earlier this year, the King employed the full-time equivalent of 101 staff. There are 31 in the private secretaries’ office, including private and assistant private secretaries, research, administrative and equerry staff.

A similar number work in his treasurers’ department, while he employs 12 in his communications office. The 28 members of his household staff include four chefs, five house managers, three valets and dressers and a couple of butlers. According to the most recent sovereign grant report, the Queen employed 491 full-time staff.

There is also the question of whether the King would retain use of Windsor Castle for weekends, and Sandringham House in Norfolk, which the late Queen visited over the Christmas period. The King and Queen Consort also have a residence at Birkhall on the Balmoral estate, Highgrove in Gloucestershire, and Llwynywermod, a cottage in Wales.

The new Prince and Princess of Wales have recently relocated to Windsor, and moved into Adelaide Cottage, while retaining their Kensington Palace apartment for official purposes.

When the Queen Mother died, the Duke of York took over Royal Lodge at Windsor. While some of her 83 members of staff were redeployed within other royal households, others were let go.
 
That is true... or rather it was very important as you could say modern Western society was built from them... there is a reason why ENGLISH is global language today.
Is this a veiled way to state that you want a course on the evolution and expansion of the English language from somebody who holds a university degree on the subject?
 
Was it not William that changed the system to the "scandinavian model"?
 
I am.
 
Here is what one person arrested for saying "Not my king", mentions of the police:


Includes a british barrister's thoughts on the police having to be careful and not act against the actual law (=allow people to protest the royals).
 
The english army was huscarle-based when it fought William, so already scandinavian ^_^
Harald was half-Danish. The Godwinsons were upstarts who clambered to power by serving Cnut and Harald's father married a Danish noblewoman.
 
Looks like the Queen will be buried above ground in a sealed coffin of Oak and Lead as is tradition.

It was constructed decades ago, so the details have been lost to time.

 
Typical values embodied by the monarchy such as personal commitment, constance, selflessness…

King Charles’s staff given redundancy notice during church service for Queen


Exclusive: Employees said to be livid and shaken as up to 100 Clarence House employees told they could lose jobs
Spoiler :
Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.
Spoiler :

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.​
Private secretaries, the finance office, the communications team and household staff are among those who received notice during the thanksgiving service for the Queen, at St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Monday, that their posts were on the line.​
Many staff had assumed they would be amalgamated into the King’s new household, claiming they were given no indication of what was coming until the letter from Sir Clive Alderton, the King’s top aide, arrived. One source said: “Everybody is absolutely livid, including private secretaries and the senior team. All the staff have been working late every night since Thursday, to be met with this. People were visibly shaken by it.”​
In his letter, seen by the Guardian, Alderton wrote: “The change in role for our principals will also mean change for our household … The portfolio of work previously undertaken in this household supporting the former Prince of Wales’s personal interests, former activities and household operations will no longer be carried out, and the household … at Clarence House will be closed down. It is therefore expected that the need for the posts principally based at Clarence House, whose work supports these areas will no longer be needed.”​
The King’s private secretary added: “I appreciate that this is unsettling news and I wanted to let you know of the support that is available at this point.”​
He added that certain staff providing “direct, close, personal support and advice” to Charles and Camilla would remain in post. No final decisions are understood to have been taken, as a consultation period, which will begin after the state funeral next Monday, needs to be completed first.​
Staff who are made redundant are expected to be offered searches for alternative employment across all royal households, assistance in finding new jobs externally and an “enhanced” redundancy payment beyond the statutory minimum.​
A Clarence House spokesman said: “Following last week’s accession, the operations of the household of the former Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall have ceased and, as required by law, a consultation process has begun. Our staff have given long and loyal service and, while some redundancies will be unavoidable, we are working urgently to identify alternative roles for the greatest number of staff.”​
It has not yet been confirmed whether the King and Queen Consort will eventually live at Buckingham Palace. At present, only parts of Buckingham Palace are habitable as it is undergoing major reservicing works that are expected to last years.​
There is speculation that the King, who is rumoured not to be particularly fond of the palace, would use it for official purposes such as receptions, audiences, investitures and banquets, while retaining nearby Clarence House as his London home.​
When his office was asked about this in 2017, when he was still Prince of Wales, officials said that Buckingham Palace would remain as the headquarters of the monarchy and official home of the sovereign. No detailed information about his likely living arrangements have been given recently.​
According to Clarence House’s annual review earlier this year, the King employed the full-time equivalent of 101 staff. There are 31 in the private secretaries’ office, including private and assistant private secretaries, research, administrative and equerry staff.​
A similar number work in his treasurers’ department, while he employs 12 in his communications office. The 28 members of his household staff include four chefs, five house managers, three valets and dressers and a couple of butlers. According to the most recent sovereign grant report, the Queen employed 491 full-time staff.​
There is also the question of whether the King would retain use of Windsor Castle for weekends, and Sandringham House in Norfolk, which the late Queen visited over the Christmas period. The King and Queen Consort also have a residence at Birkhall on the Balmoral estate, Highgrove in Gloucestershire, and Llwynywermod, a cottage in Wales.​
The new Prince and Princess of Wales have recently relocated to Windsor, and moved into Adelaide Cottage, while retaining their Kensington Palace apartment for official purposes.​
When the Queen Mother died, the Duke of York took over Royal Lodge at Windsor. While some of her 83 members of staff were redeployed within other royal households, others were let go.​


They couldn't even have waited a few weeks?
 

Man charged over heckling of Prince Andrew as he followed coffin​

A 22-year-old man has been charged in connection with a breach of the peace after the Duke of York was heckled as he walked behind the Queen's coffin.
Footage showed a man shouting at Prince Andrew as he followed the coffin up Edinburgh's Royal Mile, at about 14:50 on Monday.
The man was pulled out of the queue by two bystanders and was later arrested and charged.
He was released and will appear in court at a later date.
A Police Scotland spokesman said: "He was released on an undertaking to appear at Edinburgh Sheriff Court at a later date and a report will be sent to the procurator fiscal."
No other arrests have been made in relation to the incident. Officers would not confirm if any inquiries into the incident were ongoing.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62889396
 
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