Tip the pizza delivery driver!

[Rik Meleet]

Lucyduke: as long as there is no leaflet, sign or notification in the restaurant / bar or information printed on the bill it is hidden.

So are taxes, then. And those aren't even negotiable.

Taxes aren't hidden - they are either calculated in the depicted price (meaning you have already paid them by paying the price on the price-tag) or the prices are accompanied by the letters "EXCL" -> meaning exlcuded taxes + a reference to (usually the bottom of the page) where the %-age of tax is.
Example

The reason is that you don't pay taxes on products you sell to other people (ok you pay, but you get it back) so then it makes sense to know the non-tax price. In all cases you know how much you need to pay to obtain the service or product.

So: it is a hidden cost and not like taxes at all.

 

[psweetman1590]

Rik, I have said this several times, and you don't seem to be absorbing it. It might have been hidden to you, because you, as a foreigner, are not brought up in or versed in, the culture of tipping.

Everyone in America knows to tip. It is not a hidden cost to the Americans who frequent diners and restuarants.

Nor is it hidden to you, now we've told you about it.

You seem to be making your argument on the pure semantics of it being "hidden". Let me ask you, even if it was "hidden", what would that prove? That tipping is intrinsically bad? Just because it's hidden? Allow me to harken back to a post I made where I compare it to a law against murder. It is not publically advertized that murder is illegal. Yet, you know it is. Why? Because you were brought up in a culture that says murder is bad.

We Americans don't advertize tipping. Yet, we all know it's expected. Why? Because we are brought up in a culture that says not tipping is bad.

Therefore, I can go to the Netherlands, kill a guy, and then claim that since the laws forbidding murder are hidden, it is a bad law, and I should not spend the rest of my life in jail. Right? Is that what you're telling me?

 

[Gogf]

Huh? How does that logic work? How are taxes "hidden"? Are you not notified about taxes? That's what Rik said.

I've never been notified about sales tax before buying something, and I've paid it plenty of times.

Taxes aren't hidden - they are either calculated in the depicted price (meaning you have already paid them by paying the price on the price-tag) or the prices are accompanied by the letters "EXCL" -> meaning exlcuded taxes + a reference to (usually the bottom of the page) where the %-age of tax is.
Example

Sorry, Rik, but that's just not how it works in the States.

 

[Gogf]

The system is broken because it exploits delivery drivers, lies to the consumer and appears to result in behaviour which means that, thanks to this thread, in the unlikely circumstance that I find myself in the States, i'm certain NEVER to order food, either at a restaurant or from a delivery company.

You're basing your habits off of internet paranoia, not personal experience or the experience of people you actually know? To each his own, I guess...

From what i'm seeing on this thread service in the States is appalling and if you don't tip for it you can't go back without running the risk of getting even worse service.

The logic here is simply nonsensical. Do you honestly expect waitstaff to keep track of how much of a tip every single customer leaves? Do you honestly expect to get the same server every time you go to a restaurant? Do you honestly think that servers to be that vindictive?

After the number of people who have stated what happens in future when you don't tip i'm wondering precisely what basis you have for saying i'm free to decide whether or not to do so. Clearly if I don't tip i'm going to receive cold, burnt food, an hour late, and possibly with a light coating of saliva (if i'm lucky). Threats to behave in this manner with my product in future do not in any way represent good service, and they demonstrate that this is in fact more akin to a protection racket than quality service.

You clearly have no conception whatsoever of how the tipping system works. You're not being "threatened" with poor service if you don't tip. You're being given the discretion to choose how much you want to pay your server. Everyone benefits in this system because servers work harder to get more money, customers get better service, and the house gets more customers because it has better service.

If you don't like your service, you pay less for it. It's as simple as that.

 

[.Shane.]

We Americans don't advertize tipping. Yet, we all know it's expected. Why? Because we are brought up in a culture that says not tipping is bad.

Yeah, its a simple cultural thing that you learn and expect. Seriously, we could do list about a million things that are simple, learned behaviors at a cultural level for any given culture.

Masq makes some great points along these lines about 5 posts up.

 

[.Shane.]

Now we move to the States.
It is very confusing to know when you're supposed to tip. just looking at restaurant, you do not tip in a fast-food joint, but do you tip at an all-you-can-eat Indian buffet? Is tipping related to the service provided, or the amount of your bill?
And I didn't know you were supposed to tip hairdressers so there is one place I don't go to anymore because of that. If they're gonna spit on my pizza, I'll certainly not leave my haircut to them.
But what about tour guides? Bus drivers? Docents? Etc. So in conclusion:
a. the fact that waiters and bartenders rely on tips make for a truly great customer service. You can not deny that. Never has my water glass been empty in an American restaurant.
b. there is however a great confusion about who and how much to tip that makes for a lot of embarrassing situations
c. since the whole thing is subjective, how am I to know that the tip I left pleased my waiter and that he/she will not spit in my food next time I come? (though to be honest I'm not sure at all that this is a common thing among waiters).

Heh... I always enjoy these kinds of discussions about cultural idiosyncracies. On occassion, I'll post them here in the (sometimes foolish) hope that others might also find such discussions interesting...

For example, a thread on why we say bless you for sneezing, but not coughing. More to the question here, I addressed some of the things you're asking in this thread on seasonal tipping.

We had a whole dust-up around lunchtime at an Indian buffet. It was pretty funny to see the various social standards. The guy who sits next to me insists on 15%. While my rule of thumb is a buck or two. For me, the difference is that in a buffet, you're not being given the same type of service.

I won't tip in fast food or other similar. To me, tipping is part of the sit-down, service-oriented experience you expect at a decent restaurant. I'm not going to tip you to get me a $4 smoothie while I stand there amidst the blaring music.

Interesting stuff.

 

[Masquerouge]

It's a sort of cultural knowledge that's just picked up. There aren't any real rules of thumb that I can think of except that if someone is providing a service along with a product (like the waiter at a restuarant - food and service), then it's probably a good idea to tip.

Agreed, agreed. But don't tell me all Americans know how to tip, they don't. I've been in countless discussions about that, and was never able to get a general agreement. Some tip a flat amount, other say 15% is top notch, others say 20% is top notch, some say indian buffets should be tipped, others say it does not...

What I'm complaining about here is not the tipping, it's the complete lack of set rules for tipping

If a hairdresser spits on your head, you don't have to pay them anything, let alone a tip. Can we leave this odd (and personally unwitnessed) argument aside? I've never seen spit in my pizzas - although that might be because I'm not rude to the pizza boy.

Also agree that the spitting thing is more for dramatic effects than based on real experiences.

Buggy has already said that it's not tipping alone that gets you a messed up pizza, although that will affect the service negatively. He said that things only get bad when you are insulting about it. And quite frankly, you shouldn't need the threat of spit in your pizza to not be insulting to the pizza boy, should you?

So what if I'm really nice to the pizza boy, and tip him, but because of a lack of proper cultural background I give him a poor tip, like, say, $1 on a $30 order? Where's my chance to know I went wrong? Will I get screwed the next time I order pizza and get a cold one?

No, no, and no. No tips for these guys, they get paid a salary. (see my rule of thumb above. None of these people provide both a product and a service.)

Yet I've seen tip jars in buses, I've had tour guides and docents ask subtly or not for a tip. What am I to do? How do I know that when a waiter does not ask for a tip I should give him one but when a bus driver does ask for a tip I should NOT give him one?

It's an uncomfortable relationship between server and customer, in a "my boss pays me less than what I could make in a chinese sweatshop, so you've got to help me out here" type of way.

I often feel that way too. But, as I said, waiters are incredibly nicer and more efficient in the State than in France where they have a regular and decent salary.

It's an awkward thing to ask, right? Some people might even say that it'd be rude to directly discuss the tip with the waiter.

You're dead right on that. If it was so much in the norm to tip, then why can't you openly discuss it in a restaurant?

Some people even don't know about the $2/$3 an hour deal. A lot of people assume that the waiters make minimum wage, at least, plus tips. That was my understanding of it, until my sister got a job serving tables; I was pretty surprised when I found out what she was making, before tips.

I'm pretty sure a lot of European tourists assume that waiters are decently paid. Remember that scene in Reservoir Dogs, where they discuss how much to tip the waitress? The general reaction from my French friends was to side with the guy that doesn't tip cos waiters are paid a decent salary...

Why not include this information on the menus? Why doesn't the establishment do this? Why don't they fully embrace the tipping culture that they've created & are maintaining? A lot of people don't eat out often - and they are a bit perplexed with the whole tipping thing.. There are also tourists, travellers from other regions of the country (or from other countries), people who don't know how much waiters are being paid, before tips.. Wouldn't it make sense to include a note on the menu?

Sometimes, on the bill, they'll post what a x% tip would be. That helps.

I say they embrace it, like the servers and customers are forced to. As it stands now, the responsibility is pushed by the establishment onto the customer & waiter, creating a possibly awkward relationship between the two (as evidenced by this thread).

Very good post, Warpus

Everyone in America knows to tip. It is not a hidden cost to the Americans who frequent diners and restuarants.

Everyone might know how to tip, but everybody has a different opinion on that...

 

[psweetman1590]

I didn't say they knew how to tip, I just said that they know to tip. There's a difference there.

Perhaps there are some odd places where bus drivers and tour guides expect tips, but I've not seen any of them. Feel free not to tip, as there isn't really anything they can do to lower their service to you, is there?

So what if I'm really nice to the pizza boy, and tip him, but because of a lack of proper cultural background I give him a poor tip, like, say, $1 on a $30 order? Where's my chance to know I went wrong? Will I get screwed the next time I order pizza and get a cold one?

If the pizza boy has to deliver two pizzas, he'll deliver to the highest tipper first. That does not necessarily mean your pizza's going to be cold, it just means you won't be at the very top of the driver's list.

And you most certainly will not get screwed. So long as you're nice and polite (and you did give the guy a small tip), you won't run into any foul play at all.

 

[Masquerouge]

If the pizza boy has to deliver two pizzas, he'll deliver to the highest tipper first. That does not necessarily mean your pizza's going to be cold, it just means you won't be at the very top of the driver's list.

And you most certainly will not get screwed. So long as you're nice and polite (and you did give the guy a small tip), you won't run into any foul play at all.

Why not have it written somewhere "if you're satisfied with the service, a 15% tip would be appreciated?"

 

[Bugfatty300]

Why not have it written somewhere "if you're satisfied with the service, a 15% tip would be appreciated?"

Talking about tipping or insinuating a tip is considered "taboo" and rude. I know its stupid.

Its a catch 22. I would love to remind people to tip but I could be fired for even mentioning a tip to a customer. Even when a customer asks if I'd like a tip (according to policy) I have to grit my teeth and say "its up to you, sir."

 

[Bugfatty300]

I've seriously never come across a driver who didn't bring change with him. I would find that rude; he is assuming that he's going to get a tip. By assuming this, he is far less likely to get a good tip, at least from me.

If you don't come prepared, why should you get a good tip?

I do bring change. Just not coins.

And its got nothing to do with unpreparedness. Its not like I forget to bring coins. I, like many drivers, simply choose not to deal with coins.

I then can either stop him and say "keep the change", or wait until he's done, and then tip him.

I totally agree with Warpus.
Where I live people always go to give me the change, even though I normally end tipping them afterwards.
Its just polite not to make assumptions like that.

Why would you waste both your time by allowing the driver count out tiny worthless coins if you're going to tip him anyway?

That is why I don't carry coins.

 

[warpus]

Everyone benefits in this system because servers work harder to get more money, customers get better service, and the house gets more customers because it has better service.

This only works if you're a "regular".

Talking about tipping or insinuating a tip is considered "taboo" and rude. I know its stupid.

Its a catch 22. I would love to remind people to tip but I could be fired for even mentioning a tip to customer. Even when a customer asks if I like a tip (according to policy) I have to grit my teeth and say "its up to you, sir."

And why is that?

My guess is that the establishment does not want to admit that they rely on the customer to pay for your wages. They want to rely on this, but make it appear as though it is "the customer's choice".

They want to eat their cake and have it too.

 

[Gogf]

This only works if you're a "regular".

No it doesn't. I, and everyone else, get better service because people want tips.

 

[warpus]

No it doesn't. I, and everyone else, get better service because people want tips.

You will not get better service at a restaurant if you tip well, unless you're a regular.

 

[Gogf]

You will not get better service at a restaurant if you tip well, unless you're a regular.

I didn't say that. I said I would get better service than if tips were not involved.

Sorry if that was confusing .

 

[warpus]

Hmm so you think tipping is a ncessary evil, to get good service out of people?

 

[Masquerouge]

Hmm so you think tipping is a ncessary evil, to get good service out of people?

I know, right? On the one hand I love the service in the States, on the other hand, how much of it is eagerness to get the tip vs true eagerness to serve me?

 

[Whomp]

I know, right? On the one hand I love the service in the States, on the other hand, how much of it is eagerness to get the tip vs true eagerness to serve me?

It's not much different than sales. If someone is paid a draw then you better believe they're going to work harder to make their nut or a) they won't be able to maintain their lifestyle or b)they'll be fired. Same if 70-80% of your income is tips.

 

[Masquerouge]

It's not much different than sales. If someone is paid a draw then you better believe they're going to work harder to make their nut or a) they won't be able to maintain their lifestyle or b)they'll be fired. Same if 70-80% of your income is tips.

"Paid a draw"? Looks like I'm gonna learn something! Is that when you're paid only on commissions?

 

[LightFang]

I know, right? On the one hand I love the service in the States, on the other hand, how much of it is eagerness to get the tip vs true eagerness to serve me?

Does that distinction really matter? As long as you're getting excellent service, who cares?