Tipping in Canada

[Valka D'Ur]

I was recently informed (or lied to) about Canada's minimum wage laws. Apparently minimum wage applies to servers, waiters, waitresses, etc. BEFORE tips. The one difference is that their minimum wage (again, before tips) is $1 an hour or so less than the "regular" minimum wage.

So.. Why the hell do I tip waiters here in Canada 15% then? I was under the impression that these guys were making $2 an hour (like in the U.S.) and relying on my tips for a decent wage.

Sure, the "standard" tip in the U.S. is supposed to be 20% while here it is 10%-15% or so, but.. again.. if these guys are making at least minimum wage before tips, why am I tipping them such a large amount? In the U.S. I can understand, these guys need tips to get by.. but here? In my mind the whole reason for tipping is because the waiter basically doesn't get paid by the establishment and relies on tips to make a living.

Thoughts?

My first thought is: how could you not know that Canada has minimum wage laws that apply to restaurant workers? Now people like babysitters - they're not protected by minimum wage laws. When I had my home typing business, I had a choice of how I charged - by the page, or by the hour. I charged by the page, since I figured that if I couldn't type fast enough and accurately enough to make minimum wage and then some, that was my own fault. And some people did give me tips, quite generous ones at times when I got their papers done last-minute, or stayed up all night doing a 20-page term paper that had to be handed in the next morning and was worth 30-40% of the term's grade. But I wasn't protected by any laws - I had to make sure for myself that I'd get at least minimum wage, and without expecting tips.

I have never had the guts to tip 0% (or less than 10%) even when I receive terrible service. I commend you! I'm just a wimp, I guess.

If you receive terrible service, you should tell the worker and/or the manager that you received terrible service and that is why you are not going to leave a tip.

The people at that restaurant that wait me and cook my food are the same people that laugh at me because I am crippled. I feel no need to bless them with tips.

If they make fun of you, why would you bless them with your patronage, period? I wouldn't.

Probably, yeah. I'd do that if it wasn't twice the distance, as walking to the restaurant is already a rather difficult trek, especially with the snow.

Have you looked into the possibility of accessing a program that helps disabled people with grocery delivery? Some stores do have such services. Maybe a cooking/shopping co-operative? I don't know what city you live in, but we've got that sort of thing here in Red Deer

I would never talk to the waiter about tipping.. it seems awkward and almost insulting.

Yet how many times have they said, "Did you want your change?" and stood there, expecting you say, "No, you can keep it."

I don't allow games like that. If they act like they're due a tip just for doing the job they're supposed to do anyway, they don't get one.

In the USA, it is my understanding and experience that you are supposed to tip everywhere. In deed, there are places where the tip is a sort of mandatory part of the overall price.

To illustrate with an anecdote: A friend of my family went to New York, totally estranged to the US-American tip-culture and especially estranged having grown up in Communist East Germany I imagine. When at a restaurant, he wanted to pay the basic price of a meal and didn't care or know about any demands for tips. However, the restaurant seemed to have a policy of strictly demanding 15% tips, which he was not prepared to pay after the meal for he had not seen a note of this additional financial markon on the menu. Being a good German concerned with the order of things, he hence refused to pay any tip on demand. Which resulted in him leaving, while some employee of the restaurant was following him and harassing him. But he stood his ground.

Good for him. Anybody who DEMANDS a tip from me wouldn't get one, either.

I too can never bring myself to tip 0%, unless it's unimaginably terrible service like the server being extremely rude or downright insulting.

The last haircut I got was THEE worst haircut I have ever had in my life, but I still ended up tipping her $5 for a $15 haircut -___-

Why would you do that?

If a server is rude or insulting to me, I insist on talking to the manager and complaining. And for sure the server won't be getting any tip.


I tip taxi drivers who help me in with the groceries, or who let me use their cell phone if I have an emergency call I need to make (ie. directions to the destination if we're lost).

I tip pizza/Chinese food delivery people a basic amount, regardless if the restaurant already tacks on a delivery charge. Mind you, if there was any problem with the delivery, the driver gets zip - like the last time, when he was lost, wouldn't admit he was lost, and had the gall to actually argue with me about where I lived!

I sometimes tip in a restaurant for extra-good service, which can be something as simple as a really cheerful server, somebody who remembers my favorite meal in a restaurant I go to regularly, or who is helpful in some other way that is beyond what is normally expected. However, a grumpy server gets no tip. Wrong orders get no tip. A server who acts like she's doing me a favor by doing her job gets no tip.

The things is... a tip is a gift. It's not an obligation, or shouldn't be. I never demanded a tip from my customers. Granted, there were times when I thought I deserved one and was disappointed if it wasn't forthcoming - but I never said anything, and forbade my grandmother to say anything, for fear they would think I'd put her up to it. Oh, and I've had some unusual tips... one time it was a Peanut Buster Parfait from Dairy Queen! Even though I was allergic to everything in it, I still smiled and thanked the person graciously... and later gave it to my dad for a snack. At least he was able to enjoy it!

 

[Synobun]

If they make fun of you, why would you bless them with your patronage, period? I wouldn't.

Have you looked into the possibility of accessing a program that helps disabled people with grocery delivery? Some stores do have such services. Maybe a cooking/shopping co-operative? I don't know what city you live in, but we've got that sort of thing here in Red Deer

Heh, I wouldn't if there was another choice. The only other choice is a pizza place which is always filled with my "peers", of which also make fun of me. When given the choice, I'd rather have an adult mock me than a teenager, because a teenager will probably push it too far and start tripping me or some such.

There isn't one here, unfortunately. I live in a rather isolated area with only two thousand people. Most disabled people just move away to the city. The grocery store does have a call order, but I don't even have the slightest clue of what they have available or of what quality and price it is, and they're not really in the business of checking, as they expect you to know what you want.

However it hasn't mattered much in the past month, as I've been spending a lot of time at the hospital and they put me on a lot of vitamin and mineral supplements which I need to take with food, which in turn pretty much forces my mother to buy more food for me.

This is horribly off-topic though, so I'll just leave it at this.

 

[Zelig]

My first thought is: how could you not know that Canada has minimum wage laws that apply to restaurant workers? Now people like babysitters - they're not protected by minimum wage laws. When I had my home typing business, I had a choice of how I charged - by the page, or by the hour. I charged by the page, since I figured that if I couldn't type fast enough and accurately enough to make minimum wage and then some, that was my own fault. And some people did give me tips, quite generous ones at times when I got their papers done last-minute, or stayed up all night doing a 20-page term paper that had to be handed in the next morning and was worth 30-40% of the term's grade. But I wasn't protected by any laws - I had to make sure for myself that I'd get at least minimum wage, and without expecting tips.

Minimum wage applies to workers in Canada who are paid via piece-work - if they don't work fast enough to make minimum wage, the employer still must pay them at least minimum wage.

You weren't protected by any laws because you were self-employed, it had nothing to do with hourly rate vs piece-work.

 

[Cutlass]

Here's a tangential question about tipping: why is tipping done as a percentage of the total bill, rather than some fixed dollar value? Why should a waiter at a cheap diner not make the same tips as a waiter at a fancy restaurant? I understand why it makes sense from a business perspective, but why did society decide to go along with that?

What if it's a midline restaurant where 8 people come on on one bill and keep the waitress busy for 2 hours and have a $200 bill versus 1 guy getting a burger for $5 and out in 15 minutes? Does the same tip make sense?

 

[Bamspeedy]

http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers

Only states where a worker can receive less than $6.15/hr are Wyoming at $5.15, Kansas at $2.65 and Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee have no minimum wage laws.

When people are saying "$2/hour" they are talking of the third column on your chart, which is 30 of the states allowing the business to pay less than $5/hour (if tips bring the wage up to or exceeding the minimum wage, and in Virginia the business doesn't have to pay anything if the tips are sufficient).

 

[Zelig]

When people are saying "$2/hour" they are talking of the third column on your chart, which is 30 of the states allowing the business to pay less than $5/hour (if tips bring the wage up to or exceeding the minimum wage, and in Virginia the business doesn't have to pay anything if the tips are sufficient).

No they're not - if they are, that doesn't make sense, since people don't get $2/hour in those states, regardless of whether people tip or not.

 

[classical_hero]

In Australia I tip cabbies (usually) and restaurants if the food was decent or I was in a large group.

Tipping isn't a big thing here, but we have higher minimum wages than basically any other country you people are talking about, so yeah.

Our minimum wage is $15.51, but most people must remember that living expenses in Australia are higher than in other countries.

 

[say1988]

Here's a tangential question about tipping: why is tipping done as a percentage of the total bill, rather than some fixed dollar value? Why should a waiter at a cheap diner not make the same tips as a waiter at a fancy restaurant? I understand why it makes sense from a business perspective, but why did society decide to go along with that?

At higher priced establishments, customers tend to have greater expectations in terms of service.


In a restaurant using the tip-credit system, I would find it hard to tip. Because, up to the employee making minimum wage, that tip goes directly into the pocket of the owner (i.e. if nobody tipped the employer would have to cover the difference).

 

[illram]

No they're not - if they are, that doesn't make sense, since people don't get $2/hour in those states, regardless of whether people tip or not.

You are right in that you can never make below Federal minimum wage. So the chart is actually wrong and in those states with low minimum wages they actually have to make more than that.

 

[emzie]

http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers

Only states where a worker can receive less than $6.15/hr are Wyoming at $5.15, Kansas at $2.65 and Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tennessee have no minimum wage laws.

No they're not - if they are, that doesn't make sense, since people don't get $2/hour in those states, regardless of whether people tip or not.

It's clear by your quoting individual state minimum wage laws that you're assuming you understand a situation which you do not. As I said in my post, federal minimum wages trump state minimum wages. Where state minimum wages are lower than the fed's, the employee is entitled to the higher amount. The federal minimum wage for waitstaff remains $2.13 / hour as so long as tips make up the rest. As for how one ensures tips make up the rest, that's not an easy enforcement and waitstaff are dependant on patrons not screwing them to earn even minimum wage.

 

[say1988]

IIRC companies below a certain size (less than $500,000 revenue) and do operate across state lines are exempt federal minimum wage. So a small Ma and Pa restaurant could avoid it.

 

[emzie]

IIRC companies below a certain size (less than $500,000 revenue) and do operate across state lines are exempt federal minimum wage. So a small Ma and Pa restaurant could avoid it.

You'd really have to be careful to not operate across state lines. That includes where you source what you're selling.

 

[Arwon]

Our minimum wage is $15.51, but most people must remember that living expenses in Australia are higher than in other countries.

This is true, but there are ways to more directly compare. Even in Purchasing Power Parity terms (PPP) our award wage is the highest minimum wage in the OECD. In addition, Australia's minimum wage, as a percentage of average wage, is the highest in the OECD, meaning that minimum wage workers are closer to the average than most other places.

Of course the same pay goes a lot further in Adelaide or Brisbane than it does in Sydney or Perth...

 

[Zelig]

It's clear by your quoting individual state minimum wage laws that you're assuming you understand a situation which you do not. As I said in my post, federal minimum wages trump state minimum wages. Where state minimum wages are lower than the fed's, the employee is entitled to the higher amount. The federal minimum wage for waitstaff remains $2.13 / hour as so long as tips make up the rest. As for how one ensures tips make up the rest, that's not an easy enforcement and waitstaff are dependant on patrons not screwing them to earn even minimum wage.

Eh? I'm pretty sure I understand the situation.

Waitstaff are dependent on their employer not breaking the law to earn at least minimum wage. Waitstaff are dependent on patrons to make more than minimum wage.