To Renew Trident?

[EdwardTking]

Edward, what's your system for ranking countries? What do you factor in to get these groups? (GDP? Population? Land area? Military spending? Education? Economy? etc...)

In terms of power:

All of those above plus: Industry and Self Sufficiency and Science.

Giving most priority to:

Population and Land Area = Inhabitable Land Area > Industry > Self Sufficiency

Giving Least Priority to:

Education > Economy > GDP

because Education changes and Money is ultimately imaginary.

 

[GinandTonic]

I would say your criteria are exactly the wrong way round.

Gdp - Money makes the world go round.

Economy - As above.

Education - The key to the money that makes the world go round.

Population is still important.

Self sufficiency is a drawback to influence these days. The more conected into the world economy and community a country is the greater its influence.

 

[EdwardTking]

I would say your criteria are exactly the wrong way round.

Gdp - Money makes the world go round.

Complete nonsense. Money has been around for about 3,000 years since the Lydians and Ancient Chinese invented it. The world has been rotating for about 4,600 Million years long before money had been thought up.

Self sufficiency is a drawback to influence these days. The more conected into the world economy and community a country is the greater its influence.

When the oil really starts to run out and people realise it cannot be manufactured via a law of demand curve or imagined into existence like a spreadsheet, they may stop believing in derivative and financial future markets too. Remember capitalism is a faith based system of human behaviour, just like communism. It has no objective reality. When the soviets realised communism was the emperor's new clothes and stopped believing in that, it dissappeared and much the same could happen to the current version of capitalism. Then we will realise just how important self sufficiency is.

 

[steveedster]

I am a 51 year old Brit who thinks that the UK is not a world power anymore.

I think it is those Brits think the UK is a world power who delude themselves.

At the moment, there is:

(i) One hyper-power

USA

(ii) Four powers

China
India
Japan
Russian

(iii) and a number of third tier countries such as

France
Germany
Italy
UK

Im sorry thats a load of tosh, you are confusing economic groth due to cheap labour and high population with military 'power'with India and China
. Russia, yes,however the Russian Navy is literally falling to pieces, Japan, modern yes, however no projection.

I am not saying the UK is a 'superpower' and in fact at the moment our navy is somewhat short, however this is a low and within the next decade the UK will have a Navy / air arm to match anyone bar the USA, France also generally remains as constant as the UK so they will be up there too.

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

We like buying British subs.

And then having to fix all of the leaks...

 

[EdwardTking]

Im sorry thats a load of tosh, you are confusing economic groth due to cheap labour and high population with military 'power'with India and China.

Power requires a population basis and a manufacturing
capability to support that.

China and India have far bigger populations and are
industrialising while the UK has been de-industrialising.

UK leadership is using its alliance with the USA to
pretend it is a world power. This is remarkably unwise.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Elected? Only 35% of votes cast were for Labour. You know what i think of our current system!

Which is still more than any other party yes? Like it or not, the Government's policy, is 'our' policy.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Which is still more than any other party yes? Like it or not, the Government's policy, is 'our' policy.

Rule of the minority?

 

[bhsup]

Which is still more than any other party yes? Like it or not, the Government's policy, is 'our' policy.

I tried to use the same argument (basically) in the pledge of allegience thread, regarding "under God" and 80+% of our population being religious. Apparently, Prince, we're acting tyrannical towards the minority.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I tried to use the same argument (basically) in the pledge of allegience thread, regarding "under God" and 80+% of our population being religious. Apparently, Prince, we're acting tyrannical towards the minority.

35% is a rather different figure to 80%

And that issue is a completely seperate one to this anyhow. I don't see the comparison.

 

[steveedster]

Power requires a population basis and a manufacturing
capability to support that.

China and India have far bigger populations and are
industrialising while the UK has been de-industrialising.

UK leadership is using its alliance with the USA to
pretend it is a world power. This is remarkably unwise.

Yes I agree however its also required tech and at the moment china's air and navy isnt up to scratch, they are still using aircraft from the 60's. In the future maybe, and I do agree that the British forces are in transition, however in a decades time when the british have the new aircraft carriers and destroyers, plus a new fleet of the worlds most advanced nuclear subs on the way I think the British will be ok. certainly above the likes of Japan and India. and in front of China, not size wise obviously, however tech wise certainly.

 

[Abaddon]

Why do we need it?

 

[Sophie 378]

Shall we take this (how to rank countries as powers) to a new thread?

 

[Virote_Considon]

I'd rather spend the £20bn on renewing trident, that on an un-needed House of Lords reform(although I forget how much this will cost, both in the long and short term) any day.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

Rule of the minority?

Did any other political party gain more of the vote? If not, Labour's policy is 'our' policy.

I know your feelings on electoral reform Davo but until you get your wish, the Government's policy rules.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Did any other political party gain more of the vote? If not, Labour's policy is 'our' policy.

I know your feelings on electoral reform Davo but until you get your wish, the Government's policy rules.

So the government's ppolicy should be put above that of the British public? I didn't realise you were so authoritarian.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

So the government's ppolicy should be put above that of the British public? I didn't realise you were so authoritarian.

Authoritarian? It's democracy Dave. If the British public felt strongly enough that it didn't want to follow the US into the War on Terror, or wanted to pull out as soon as possible, they should have voted Lib Dem. Not enough of them did.

 

[GinandTonic]

To return to topic a little, what do people think of my suggestion of retaining a largish tactical deterent, scrapping the strategic SSBN's and sinking a bunch of the proceeds into making better cruise missiles to carry them?

 

[bathsheba666]

UK leadership is using its alliance with the USA to
pretend it is a world power. This is remarkably unwise.

qft, and the understatement.

 

[Steph]

To return to topic a little, what do people think of my suggestion of retaining a largish tactical deterent, scrapping the strategic SSBN's and sinking a bunch of the proceeds into making better cruise missiles to carry them?

I'm not sure I follow. If you scrap your SSBN, where do you plan to put your better cruise missles?