To save the environment you must destroy it.

[El_Machinae]

ALF and ELF are terrorists?

Yes, they are. As a biomedical researcher, I have legitimate concerns about ALF attacking me, my family, or my research facilities.

So, clearly Greenpeace was incorrect to damage a UNESCO site. They're correct in that there really does need to be progress on Climate Change talks.

There are many coral reefs that are really quite gorgeous that we're risking. There're a lot of National Parks whose utility will drop due to AGW. There's a lot of damage being built into Business As Usual.

No amount of rolling coal will change that.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes, they are. As a biomedical researcher, I have legitimate concerns about ALF attacking me, my family, or my research facilities.

Have the ALF or ELF ever attacked anyone? I've only heard of them damaging property, and my understanding is that these were acts of sabotage rather than terrorism. I could be wrong.

I mean, I'm not defending these guys, let's be clear. That whole anarcho-greenie milieu is frankly kinda bonkers. I'm just a little wary of designating people as "terrorists" when it's not clear that they've engaged in acts of terrorism, and even more wary of designating people as "terrorists" for (as in PETAs case) supporting people who are in turn linked to people who do have not clearly engaged in acts of terrorism, a third-hand association at best. By that point, "terrorist" seems to mean something like "dissident", which is a bit DPRK for my tastes.

 

[galdre]

Frankly I would rather have a healthy environment than archeological sites, if I was forced to choose between the two, and they did not even damage anything, much less destroy. What a non-story this turned out to be.

 

[El_Machinae]

Have the ALF or ELF ever attacked anyone? I've only heard of them damaging property, and my understanding is that these were acts of sabotage rather than terrorism. I could be wrong.

Yes
http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_10091237?nclick_check=1

That said, I'm quite heavily on PETA's team. I think they're mostly correct in principle, and it's their enemies who make more logical and moral errors. But, those two orgs (ELF and ALF) do cross the line.

I'm pretty pro-environment, too. I think Greenpeace is a lot more correct in their message than the people who dislike them. No org is perfectly, obviously.

 

[Yeekim]

Don't want to burst the hyperbole bubble, but the amount of damage done was a few footprints in the vicinity of the landmark - which, while somehow crass, is FAR from "destroying world heritage site".

Now you can go back to flail around and claim that people putting up a banner to raise awareness are somehow "ecoterrorists".

+1
I somehow fail to be annoyed by what they did.

 

[luiz]

+1
I somehow fail to be annoyed by what they did.

It's very annoying, crass and arrogant. Which is typical Greenpeace. But they didn't really "destroy the environment", and deserve credit for the unreserved apology (instead of the typical "the method was not ideal but let's focus on the message!" crap we usually see).

 

[Tee Kay]

I'd like to eat me some whale right now though.

Link to video.

 

[James Stuart]

Link to video.

I was thinking of that all day.

 

[JohnRM]

It is on par with the Taliban blowing up Buddha statues. Yet another terrorist act by ecoterrorists.

^This. It is intolerable. For every historic landmark they vandalize, I pledge to cut down ten trees. I may increase it to more, depending on the severity of their violation. LOL.

 

[James Stuart]

^This. It is intolerable. For every historic landmark they vandalize, I pledge to cut down ten trees. I may increase it to more, depending on the severity of their violation. LOL.

If possible, make the trees members of the perpetrator's own orchard.

 

[_random_]

Have the ALF or ELF ever attacked anyone? I've only heard of them damaging property, and my understanding is that these were acts of sabotage rather than terrorism. I could be wrong.

I mean, I'm not defending these guys, let's be clear. That whole anarcho-greenie milieu is frankly kinda bonkers. I'm just a little wary of designating people as "terrorists" when it's not clear that they've engaged in acts of terrorism, and even more wary of designating people as "terrorists" for (as in PETAs case) supporting people who are in turn linked to people who do have not clearly engaged in acts of terrorism, a third-hand association at best. By that point, "terrorist" seems to mean something like "dissident", which is a bit DPRK for my tastes.

I saw a documentary that focused on a former ELF cell, and the interviews definitely came across as terrorist-y. "You blow up an SUV dealership, people get weary about buying or selling SUVs." was their logic. They were intent about focusing on property crime and not taking any human life, but it was still property crime evoking terror for political goals.

Good documentary btw, if you're interested.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I saw a documentary that focused on a former ELF cell, and the interviews definitely came across as terrorist-y. "You blow up an SUV dealership, people get weary about buying or selling SUVs." was their logic. They were intent about focusing on property crime and not taking any human life, but it was still property crime evoking terror for political goals.

Good documentary btw, if you're interested.

To the average American SUV buyer, the destruction of numerous SUVs invokes far more terror than, say, choking the life out of a black man or shooting one down in the street. So they are terrorists, no question.

 

[JollyRoger]

To save the evironhate, you must deceive.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes
http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_10091237?nclick_check=1

That said, I'm quite heavily on PETA's team. I think they're mostly correct in principle, and it's their enemies who make more logical and moral errors. But, those two orgs (ELF and ALF) do cross the line.

Fair dos.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Am I the only one thinking of ALF the serial and ELF as in the mythological creature?

 

[warpus]

What they did didn't damage much at all, so the headline is sensationalist. But they're dicks and they should be thrown in jail. The Nazca lines are a national treasure and should be protected. There's a reason why you're not allowed to do what they did and why it's off limits.

 

[Borachio]

Am I the only one thinking of ALF the serial and ELF as in the mythological creature?

I'd guess not.

But I'm trying really hard to forget that Alf thing.

 

[sophie]

^This. It is intolerable. For every historic landmark they vandalize, I pledge to cut down ten trees. I may increase it to more, depending on the severity of their violation. LOL.

Do you also kill ten dogs every time PETA splashes paint on some woman's fur coat?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Every time BP spills a barrel of oil into the sea, I shall fire my cannons at the ocean. Or at a river. Whatever works.

 

[Borachio]

Every time the Chinese flood another valley, I adopt a crustacean.

(This Christmas I'm adopting crustaceans on behalf of all my friends.)