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Tomatekh's Timurids for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, May 11, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    v10 of Timurids is live
    Code:
    CPDLL now has the NoBuild incorporated as a trait. This should resolve a major bug.
    New promotion icons, courtesy of Asterix Rage
    Registan now has a theming bonus
    corrections in civ text and documentation
    
     
    Hinin likes this.
  2. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    So I played Timmy all the way through all 4UC uniques coming online and a good amount of time using them, and it just felt really hard to keep up. I gave up because I was flanked by the two top civs in the game, both with over twice my score and defensive pacts with each other, and it was just too difficult to war them both. I even cheated in the Registan because by the time I unlocked it I had 21 population needed before I could build it, which was absolutely ridiculous. The extra culture per tech was barely enough to keep me 2 policies behind Egypt/Shoshone, both of which of course were directly next to me and constantly warring me.

    I don't think the Tumen UU is strong enough, it doesn't have additional CS, just 1 movement, slightly less malus for attacking cities, and gold. It isn't terrible but for a civ that relies on razing cities to have any relevance it just doesn't do well enough at attacking cities. It ends up feeling like a kinda-sorta-slightly better unit, but civs like Ottomans and the Zulu get that kind of upgrade off of their UB while getting more off of the UU. And while the Deh and Registan+UNW are okay, they just can't carry a civ properly.

    I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done to make Timmy relevant, but my feeling is that he gets online too weak too late. Your UA, UB, and UU don't come up until mid-game unless you have a lucky early game next to a non-early game civ. If you happen to spawn next to anyone that has strong early military (I was next to Aztec and Egypt), you just have to wait until so late that everyone is really far ahead, and your uniques don't offer a big enough power spike to catch up at that point. I also think a significant problem is that your UA scales up with conquered city pop and doesn't make up for how much you lose by just razing cities. The Moroccans for example get +1 per yield per trade route, not requiring war at all, but would also get the benefit of just holding on to cities while still keeping the trade route bonuses for a long time.
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    new Timurid version is live:
    Code:
    v11
    Registan Changes:
       - Culture on technology unlock reduced to 50 (down from 100, still +25 from base Oxford)
    
    Madrasah changes:
       - All madrasahs had their free GWAM points increased to +3, up from +2
       - All madrasahs base yields increased to +3 sci/prod/cul and +1 faith. Sher Dor no longer generates +2 tourism
       - Ulugh Begh Madrasah University bonus increased to +2 science
    
    Tumen changes:
       - Increased CS to 37
       - fixed help and strategy texts
    
    Farsakh Cannon
       - Immobile while damaged now lost on upgrade
    
    The national pop requirement for Registan is identical to Oxford. If there is an issue with it, then I would recommend taking it up with the wider VP community to get the pop requirement for Oxford reduced.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    Hinin likes this.
  4. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Nice. Tired with icons for now, I'm going to play at last. Timurid + MUC
    But to be honest, before even trying, I added LostWithUpgrade to PROMOTION_IMMOBILE_WHILE_DAMAGED (MUGHAL_FARSAKH_CANNON)
     
    Hinin and pineappledan like this.
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  6. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    VP(8-5) + MUC (v48) + Playing The Timurids - 4UC (v11)

    A Deh in Japan !
    dehjapan.png
    Never been in war with Japan or any civ on this continent.

    Edit: An second one seen in Japan and one in Kabul (CS)

    Edit: Nothing in logs that could help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
  7. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    I've not progressed quite far enough to play with anything other than the Deh, but that is a good UI. A good buff from standard villages. It is a little awkward as the rest of the kit points strongly toward Imperialism, while the Deh benefits from Rationalism, but hard choices are what make good gameplay.
     
  8. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    Played a bit more, this is a very fun warmongering civ. The UA is truly unique and interesting. The Tumen is an absolute holy terror. The Farsakh feels like the ultimate siege weapon, but even has an interesting, challenging malus to work around. And the Registan fooled me; I thought the three Madrasahs were mutually exclusive. That is crazy powerful, especially with all the cities you'll be building with Authority after clearing opponents' cities with razing.
     
  9. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    I would've thought this was the quintessential "Tradition warmonger." Have you tried it that way, or just with Authority?
     
  10. Guynemer

    Guynemer Prince

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    I only tried Authority; I don't really see how Timur meshes with Tradition very well. Nothing in his kit relates to specialists or Great People, and in my experience any civ with a UI points away from Tradition anyway, since Tradition civs using work mostly specialists and GPIs. Add in the various madrasahs giving bonuses to every market/caravansary/university on empire, and everything says "wide" to me. I'm willing to be educated otherwise.
     
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I toyed with the idea of giving 1:c5greatperson: of all GPPs in the capital for every :c5citizen:pop killed. Not sure if that would be stronger or weaker. Irrelevant though, because dummy buildings that give :c5greatperson:GPPs don't stack. That would be much more Tradition-friendly though. The current setup makes your :c5capital:capital really strong without tradition. In fact, Authority is the stronger pick because the strength of your :c5capital:capital would scale much more strongly with your ability to level enemy cities than anything Tradition could provide you.

    If a tension between going tradition vs authority was achievable it would be great, but I'm not too broken up if the Tradition synergy isn't there. Timur was a butcher, far more than he was some patron of the arts.
     
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Courtesy of @ASCII Guy, new UA mechanic

    Timurids can no longer cancel City Razing. Period. Should be a little easier for the AI to grasp that, though I doubt they were cancelling razing.
     
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  13. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    @pineappledan Did you intend for the UA to give +1 to all yields for every point of pop that gets razed post-update?


    Also, do you have any idea how this guy would interact with the "One-City Challenge" option? I assume that, since the city just gets deleted, it wouldn't trigger anything, which is unfortunate; he's otherwise MADE to try it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The UA counts number of turns that a city in your empire is razing and adds each turn as yields in the capital. A city being destroyed is a separate event so you would get +1 all yields.

    this is making me think I should rewrite the UA works. How about this:
    When a city is destroyed, gain +1 of all yields in your :c5capital:capital for every 2:c5citizen: citizens in the city when it was captured
    • Original :c5citizen:pop gets stored when you first capture the city, you don’t get the yields until the city is gone. No part marks for setting a city to 1 pop
    • Get yields off max population instead of how many you kill razing.
    • No interaction with cultural influence killing fewer :c5citizen:pop on capture
    • The yields are a little too plentiful right now, so increasing the overall :c5citizen: pool, but slashing the yields in half will overall reduce yields slightly
    • Maybe we could add double razing speed (vanilla huns ability) to the UA?
    • No need to play around with disabling razing.
     
  15. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    That does sound more elegant to me. And yes, I would absolutely agree about yields being too plentiful, especially with the new lower city CS. Russia had like a 5 pop border city with no garrison and 4 CS; one Archer and my Pathfinder was all I needed to take it and that was more yields than any three buildings I could have built in the same timeframe.

    EDIT: Any chance of sneaking in a +unit supply for each city razed or something similar? I know his UNW gives some extra, but the last time I played OCC I had somewhere under 10 supply for the majority of the game. Not going to be burning down any worlds with ten total troops. :)

    (I know it's probably not in the cards, but never hurts to ask! Appreciate your work either way.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  16. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Quoting this post to disagree. Something definitely seems off with the requirements on the Registan; I don't think I've ever hit Oxford and not had enough population, but with the Registan I'm 11 away? Seems highly unlikely to me.
     
  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    between no university requirement and it being the unique building, you’re probably just rushing to the tech and trying to build it earlier than a normal oxford. It is the exact same population as oxford, I can 100% guarantee that because the registan’s code directly references oxford’s values.

    even if it was too high (it’s not), the :c5culture: on tech unlock is a too good to make the requirements lower.

    a :c5war:supply increase on the UA is not in the cards, no. If the registan’s :c5war:supply bonus can’t keep up then maybe I will increase it to +25%:c5war: from :c5citizen:, but I’m not putting it on the UA
     
  18. AndreyK

    AndreyK Chieftain

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    I am playing with this mod, but playing as Germany (this time). Somehow my neighbour Arabia is buiding deh
     
  19. AndreyK

    AndreyK Chieftain

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    Arabia didn't meet Timur. In fact may be Timurids are not in the game - Harun is in Classical and there two of us on the continent surrounded by ocean
     
  20. JLazeZ

    JLazeZ Chieftain

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    I'd like that addition of double razing speed with the changes. I think it'll make his UA feel more active in gameplay, especially early on.
     

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