[RD] Toronto van attack

[bhavv]

So they recently carried out polls on reddit to attempt to find out the demographics of the Incel subreddit there. Surprisingly, only 60% are white, the remaining mostly Indian and other Asians like me.

The significant reason for increasing number of Asian Incels is literally this video here:

But wait what? That's only one video and one individual woman right?

Nope, try reading this:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/asian-men-dating_us_5b0ed83de4b0568a8810e2d0

'Even male models can’t catch a break on dating apps. Model and fitness coach Kevin Kreider, a Korean-American adopted by Irish-German parents, was so perturbed by his experiences on Tinder, he stopped using the app.

“It started to hurt my self-esteem because I know I’m a good-looking guy but I wasn’t getting any responses, so then I lowered my standards and lowered them again, until I finally got some interest,” he told HuffPost. “I realized how screwed up this was, especially when other white guys had no problem lining up dates and the girls were good-looking and educated.”

From my own personal experience of (unsuccessfully) trying online dating, the top replies I would get out of the few people that would bother replying were:

1) Not into Asians
2) You look like a terrorist
3) You look like a sex offender / rapist / pedophile

And thats with a full 100% rejection rate not from women, but gay men.

It is an absolute clear fact that men don't have an easy time with dating today unless they are at least an 8/10 Caucasian, or can pass as attractive Caucasians.

Also on the point of this thread and coming back to Incels, to clear up a few ignorant misconceptions:

1) Incels don't believe they are automatically entitled to sex, this is repeated BS from people who havnt even read anything from actual Incels. One of the main terms they use in this regards is 'looksmatch' - they rightfully expect to be entitled to be with a person of equal physical status.

However, they also state, and this is provable from data pulled from dating websites, that the top 80% of women are only interested in dating the top 20% of men. This leaves the bottom 80% of men (under 6/10 white men, under 8/10 black men, and literally 100% of Asians) to compete for just the 20% of women that will be willing to date them. Also from my personal experience on gay dating websites as well as many conversions with the people that would talk to me on them, it is easy to assume that 100% of gay men of colour will have zero chance on online dating. Even other people of colour will generally not respond because gay minorities are stemmed full of internalized racism mostly due to the excessive homophobia and inequality they faced while growing up, and I admittedly put myself in that group and am already seeing a psychiatrist regularly for this.

In my personal situation I am going to moving into my first house soon which is conveniently built next to a rugby stadium with an incentive for people moving onto this site for a reduced membership fee (I assume they will have a gym I can use, if not I will find one). I am also 100% decided on starting skin lightening and hair bleaching products, plus saving up enough money for laser treatment to turn my eyes blue (yes this exists), and then even more permanent facial reconstruction surgery as I literally have nothing to lose anymore. Now onto part 2:

2) Another misconception about Incels is that they are unwilling to change anything or improve themselves. Just 5 minutes of reading into any Incel community proves this false from looking at the two main terms of Incel culture:

A) Incel - Involuntary celibate
B) Volcel - Voluntary celibate

You will find right away that anyone in these communities that doesn't yet do anything to improve themselves, and refuse to do so are branded Volcel. To be an Incel, you have to be actively losing weight if you're fat. Going to the gym if you have a crap face to 'gym-max' into a 'gymcel' (maxed physical body with crap face).

Next comes, as I mentioned at the end of part 1 above sorting out the face. Dental implants for fixing the jaw. Rhinoplasty for fixing the nose. Anything else possible such as skin and hair lightening as I will be trying, there are countless threads giving advice and recommending these things all over the Incel community on reddit for anyone that can afford them.

To literally still claim that Incels are doing nothing to improve themselves is pure BS, I see numerous threads daily about these people hitting the gym, posting their improvement pictures, asking to rate their before and after changes, asking for help with facial improvement, I was told right away when I posted my pics I need to fix my beard, I need to lose weight, I need to take better pics, I am obviously a Volcel because I am not 'looksmaxing' etc etc. This is a community focused on nothing but pushing self improvement to the extreme, the term used for this in the community being 'looksmaxing' (I.E maxing your looks / body to the best that they can be).

So whatever, I assume most of you will still ignore this and continue bashing on the lowest status men in society because you have nothing better to do, and virgin shaming is amazing fun to you.

 

[Kyriakos]

"Eugenic" lol ^_^

Most people are ageneis, though.

 

[red_elk]

However, they also state, and this is provable from data pulled from dating websites, that the top 80% of women are only interested in dating the top 20% of men. This leaves the bottom 80% of men (under 6/10 white men, under 8/10 black men, and literally 100% of Asians) to compete for just the 20% of women that will be willing to date them.

Just a thought - in this situation 80% of women are in unfavorable position too, because they have to compete for only 20% of men.
I personally found many Asian women attractive - didn't know Asian men have troubles with getting a date, but may be you are right.

So whatever, I assume most of you will still ignore this and continue bashing on the lowest status men in society because you have nothing better to do, and virgin shaming is amazing fun to you.

You made a good point, we needed someone from "the other side" to describe their point of view.
I felt from the beginning that there is something wrong with labeling entire community as a bunch of a-holes.

 

[bhavv]

Just a thought - in this situation 80% of women are in unfavorable position too, because they have to compete for only 20% of men.
I personally found many Asian women attractive - didn't know Asian men have troubles with getting a date, but may be you are right.


You made a good point, we needed someone from "the other side" to describe their point of view.
I felt from the beginning that there is something wrong with labeling entire community as a bunch of a-holes.

Ever wondered why India is full of skin lightening products? I do now. It is a complete truth that most women of all races are attractive and desirable and will have an easy play of the dating game if they want to do just that, let me guess this is the misogynist part everyone is worried about. Meanwhile men have to compete on the genetic lottery.

Honestly look at almost any species of animal and they behave the same as what we end up with freedom of choice in human dating. The top alpha males get to breed and pass on their genetics with any / multiple females, the beta males might as well have simply have never been born.

As for the perceived issue of Incels making memes of female infidelity, erm ....

A pop song literally about all the 'Stacies' wanting to get impregnated by 'Chad'. But this is totally fine because they use nicer words and are pretty and stuff.

None of this is new, it's simply being put in more blunt and memeier words now, and it has existed throughout human history.

Yes skin lightening is racist, but so is most people only wanting to choose to date white men. Yes all the memes made are sexist, misogynist and even misandrist (chads, undesirable Incels, you know men are also equally discussed), but this is still all literal truth and gospel to people like me, otherwise where's my first date / kiss even at?

As for the point you made that 80% of women are disadvantaged for competing for 20% men, that's not actually the case because the less nicer part of the Incel memes cover infidelity and polygamy of which there is also plenty of evidence to be found from dating sites, social media etc. Can't really explain that side much more without going into the deeply sexist stuff which your innocent eyes on Civfanatics wont be willing to see.

Also another very important point that needs pointing out - such figures / percentages are based purely on online dating trends and results. Plenty of men outside of this perceived 80% of undesirables are going to successfully find relationships, but there are other factors taken into that, such as wealth, childhood romances, blind luck, arranged marriages in Asian cultures and such.

Ok Cupid had pages of dating figures that fully supported the Incel beliefs, however following the Toronto attack they pulled them down after realising they were being quoted and used in everysingle Incel website. These figures were cached and copied and still floating around but are harder to find now, but they still exists.

 

[red_elk]

Ever wondered why India is full of skin lightening products?

It depends on beauty standards in local cultures. For example, in Russia many women go to tanning salons, because having skin tanned a bit considered beautiful here.
Logically, I understand why people do these things, but consider most of them wrong anyway. Breast increasing surgery for example is just a crime against nature...

Yes skin lightening is racist, but so is most people only wanting to choose to date white men.

In some cases, yes, women may refuse to date someone due to racist stereotypes. But in general, who they like is not their voluntary choice.
If a girl doesn't like you or me, that sucks, but we should understand that it's not her fault. Most of them are naturally attracted to handsome alpha males, but blaming them for it doesn't make sense - it's like blaming wolf for wanting to eat meat.

As for the point you made that 80% of women are disadvantaged for competing for 20% men, that's not actually the case because the less nicer part of the Incel memes cover infidelity and polygamy of which there is also plenty of evidence to be found from dating sites, social media etc.

It's true that most women can get a date with one of "top" men without a problem. Thing is, they usually aim for long term relationship and having only sex with one of polygamic alphas won't make them happy. I guess women in this thread can explain it better.

 

[Kyriakos]

The Stacy, Chad, and Incel meme is still pretty normie meme-type. Very anodyne next to stuff like Dolan/Gooby*.
"Normies, get out of the thread! Reeeee!"

Neither Dolan, Gooby, or the others there are incel or chad. They are psychopathic and at times murderous. Normie<non-normie.

 

[bhavv]

It depends on beauty standards in local cultures. For example, in Russia many women go to tanning salons, because having skin tanned a bit considered beautiful here.
Logically, I understand why people do these things, but consider most of them wrong anyway. Breast increasing surgery for example is just a crime against nature...


In some cases, yes, women may refuse to date someone due to racist stereotypes. But in general, who they like is not their voluntary choice.
If a girl doesn't like you or me, that sucks, but we should understand that it's not her fault. Most of them are naturally attracted to handsome alpha males, but blaming them for it doesn't make sense - it's like blaming wolf for wanting to eat meat.


It's true that most women can get a date with one of "top" men without a problem. Thing is, they usually aim for long term relationship and having only sex with one of polygamic alphas won't make them happy. I guess women in this thread can explain it better.

The issues presented are mostly to do with online dating in the first world with full 100% freedom of choice, and the countless replies and comments you can look for online.

As for women aiming for long term relationship, we have literally thousands of posts for women on social media covering this. This is referred to as the 'tee hee' meme, misogynist yes, but describing the woman that does what is perceived typical Stacey things - EG - 'Im into dating average men, tee hee' - *Insert picture of 8/10 Caucasian man that Stacey considers average*.

All the posts of women who outright refuse to date short men, Asian men, even on top of that average or even ugly women who pair up with a supermodel status man (thousands and thousands of cases of this that can be turned into memes). Most Incels are straight and quick to dismiss the possibility of gay Incels and immediately brand them Volcel under the idea that gay men are not as discriminatory in dating as women are, but all that takes to prove wrong is being gay and Asian and attempting online dating as I have. Simple solution, I let people know about this as soon as they assume that I'm the person choosing not to date which isn't the case - No man on gay dating apps will seemingly date or even reply to Asian people, and I'm talking of hundreds if not thousands of examples of this per gay Asian trying online dating.

What makes me feel entitled to dating? Human nature? Doesnt just about every human want to be in a relationship of some kind, whether temporary or long term? How is feeling entitled to EQUALITY in dating wrong? Or misogynistic / misandrist in anyway? All it would take to prevent an Incel from forming is literally just one person of equivalent facial looks / body features to date them. Big deal, how is that being 'entitled to sex?' What do you think these men are going do? Remain fully content and happy with the prospect of dying a virgin and alone? Would women in the same situation be expected of the same?

One thing I personally wish would be for dating apps to literally ban or have rules against racial / height or any kind or any kind of other discrimination. While this alone isn't going to be a solution, do you think men feel constantly being told they are too short / ugly / wrong race / looks like a terrorist / pedophile are going to remain happy with and ignore this? A lot are likely to start going online to communities like Incel forums and start writing about their experiences as I have. Women already freely do this, again thousands of posts we can easily find of women complaining that unnattractive men are even bothering to message or trying to start a conversation with them. In the real world, simply saying hello to a woman is often perceived as unwanted abuse - countless / thousands of memes about this even from outside of Incel culture, like the one of a man tapping a woman's shoulder and saying 'excuse me' only for the woman to turn around and blurt a misandrist over entitled 'how dare you even approach me' reply. So the man says ok and goes his way, and then the last panel reveals a black widow spider sat on the womans back, and honestly if anyone was to run a social experiment and have an average or below average Asian man like me attempting to approach gay men, you would exactly the same type of over entitled self worth responses.

How can people be expected to just go outside and talk to people, when most would consider being approached by an ugly person to be offensive? We havent even factored in issues like social anxiety / agoraphobia. Say for example I was to actually go outside and try to speak to / hit on another man. Whether right wrong, my perceived expectation to this is that I'm going to end up being killed or at least put in a hospital for trying. As for attempting to try bars, clubs or similar things, this Is great if you are at least average looking and Caucasian. Its not going to work average / below average Asians without vast self improvements are made first.

I actually remember once I simply tried leaving race unfilled on a dating site, and the first thing someone asks me before shortly after literally friendzoning me is what my race is. What would you do in this situation with a sustained 100% rejection rate over a full decade or longer? I've already even thought of applying for Channel 4s undateables, but I don't want my face, history and life story all over TV and made public knowledge. Even if I manage to get a date, how well do you expect that to go for someone with diagnosed. Autism, anxiety, depression, severe deafness, bone hurting and joint breaking disease (nice meme, I have 8 broken / dislocated joints now from Ehlers Danlos Syndrome).

Oh then I'll get 'well why don't date other disabled people?' Wait how did you figure out I'm disabled? Was it my looks or physical appearance? Nope its only because I told you. So now you expect me to date what you perceive as 'disabled people', which is to you, anyone with obvious physical deformities. Would you do this? Let me guess, no. I've entertained the idea, but given that I don't actually have any crippling physical appearance issues, and am actually able to talk well when given the chance why should I? (10/10 personality reviews from work focused things - 'Well presented, well spoken, make a great first impression, friendly, approachable, perfect customer service / interaction with and helping customers, punctual, reliable, flexible, changes hours / does overtime on minimum notice .... But oh he's 10-20% physically slow / disadvantaged so we won't actually keep him or actally pay him to work ... Tee hee?). Oh but approach anyone or show anyone my pictures on a dating site and now suddenly Im an over entitled asian creep / terrorist / sex offender / pedophile based just off how my face looks?

 

[Traitorfish]

Maybe the reason that people using online dating services seem to privelege superficial characteristics is because most online dating services are structured entirely around that exact premise.

 

[Synobun]

How can people be expected to just go outside and talk to people, when most would consider being approached by an ugly person to be offensive?

Perhaps it is your attitude that is offensive instead of assumed physical woes. I've seen you. You look fine. Your issues aren't physical.

 

[Lexicus]

What makes me feel entitled to dating? Human nature? Doesnt just about every human want to be in a relationship of some kind, whether temporary or long term? How is feeling entitled to EQUALITY in dating wrong? Or misogynistic / misandrist in anyway? All it would take to prevent an Incel from forming is literally just one person of equivalent facial looks / body features to date them. Big deal, how is that being 'entitled to sex?' What do you think these men are going do? Remain fully content and happy with the prospect of dying a virgin and alone? Would women in the same situation be expected of the same?

Expecting someone to date you just because you want to date someone is certainly feeling entitled. You need to bring something to the table.

without vast self improvements are made first.

And you don't want to improve yourself...why?

 

[red_elk]

What makes me feel entitled to dating? Human nature? Doesnt just about every human want to be in a relationship of some kind, whether temporary or long term? How is feeling entitled to EQUALITY in dating wrong? Or misogynistic / misandrist in anyway? All it would take to prevent an Incel from forming is literally just one person of equivalent facial looks / body features to date them. Big deal, how is that being 'entitled to sex?' What do you think these men are going do? Remain fully content and happy with the prospect of dying a virgin and alone? Would women in the same situation be expected of the same?

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with feeling entitled to dating - in the sense that every person deserve to be happy. But things like equality or fairness don't apply here. A girl either likes you or she doesn't and you can influence it only by adjusting your look and behavior. Dating apps can (and should) forbid offensive language, but if a particular girls doesn't want to date Asian men, anti-discriminatory rules won't make her change her mind about that.

 

[Ajidica]

In my personal situation I am going to moving into my first house soon which is conveniently built next to a rugby stadium with an incentive for people moving onto this site for a reduced membership fee (I assume they will have a gym I can use, if not I will find one). I am also 100% decided on starting skin lightening and hair bleaching products, plus saving up enough money for laser treatment to turn my eyes blue (yes this exists), and then even more permanent facial reconstruction surgery as I literally have nothing to lose anymore. Now onto part 2:

Jesus, that sounds drastic.
I mean, it is an open secret the gay community is lowkey racist toward minorities, but embarking on a cosmetic surgery regimen that would put Hollywood to shame probably isn't the answer. There is a massive difference between putting some effort into your appearance (better personal grooming, working out a bit) and going under the knife.

Perhaps it is your attitude that is offensive instead of assumed physical woes. I've seen you. You look fine. Your issues aren't physical.

I agree, at least with regards to the attitude. The first posts you make after an extended hiatus are misanthropic and blaming everyone else, or holding a permanent pity party for yourself. Angry people with bad personalities aren't attractive, no matter how much cash they drop on plastic surgery.

 

[bhavv]

Expecting someone to date you just because you want to date someone is certainly feeling entitled. You need to bring something to the table.



And you don't want to improve yourself...why?

Excuse me? I don't improve myself? Did you even read a single thing I wrote?

I'd like to ask you to not even bother replying to me at all on this subject because you are clearly too stuborn and prejudiced to change your view no matter what information is provided. You have zero clue about anything to do with Incels, and it seems even less intention to want to learn anything about it no matter what information is provided.

 

[bhavv]

Perhaps it is your attitude that is offensive instead of assumed physical woes. I've seen you. You look fine. Your issues aren't physical.

How is my attitude offensive when 100% of humans I approach online refuse to want to meet me based on my looks? You can say what you want or fling any accusations that you want, but if you were using Tinder you wouldn't swipe whichever the direction is to express interest if you simply saw my pictures there.

 

[bhavv]

Jesus, that sounds drastic.
I mean, it is an open secret the gay community is lowkey racist toward minorities, but embarking on a cosmetic surgery regimen that would put Hollywood to shame probably isn't the answer. There is a massive difference between putting some effort into your appearance (better personal grooming, working out a bit) and going under the knife.


I agree, at least with regards to the attitude. The first posts you make after an extended hiatus are misanthropic and blaming everyone else, or holding a permanent pity party for yourself. Angry people with bad personalities aren't attractive, no matter how much cash they drop on plastic surgery.

Why do you think I am misanthropic? I am openly misanthropic, misogynist, misandrist, anti natalist, anti human, anti religious, anti capitalist, Moderator Action: Controversial group deleted , anything else you want to add because of the 34 years of human society and interactions I have lived with so far.

People online can claim whatever they want about 'most people are nice! I'm nice! The problem is obviously you and your attitude'. This doesn't change the fact of my life's worth of anecdotal experiences and seeing nothing but how despicable and atrocious most, if not all people in the real world actually are.

However people make the error of thinking I talk like this to people on dating websites? They don't know me or any of my online posts opinions. I can't even approach people with a friendly greeting or question and have them interested in dating me because of how I look.

Thinking 'I look fine' is not relevant because I don't look good enough for anyone to actually want to date me, and this has nothing to do with anything but how my face looks and mostly because of my skin colour. I don't look at the world through rose tinted glasses like most, and if you care to want to read up on the following, it is scientifically proven that people with my list of mental health issues see the world and other people vastly more clearly and realistically than normal people, which is why I am not afraid to shy away from realizing just how bad people and human society is.

Humanity has long been worthless to me and is the entire biggest joke on Earth. And this is an already changed opinion, I didn't have these beliefs when I first started trying to meet people 15 years ago and still being rejected, so that has nothing to do with it.

The only one thing I will give some humans credit for recently is inventing sex robots. Do hurry up and make me mine already! And then you have an increasing number of %&#&%, mainly feminists, trying to take these sex robots away.

Also in b4 I get in trouble for not remembering to multiquote, because that's also so easy to use on mobile, not.

 

[Synobun]

How is my attitude offensive when 100% of humans I approach online refuse to want to meet me based on my looks? You can say what you want or fling any accusations that you want, but if you were using Tinder you wouldn't swipe whichever the direction is to express interest if you simply saw my pictures there.

I mean, I don't generally lean the way towards men, but I can appreciate their aesthetic and I know what makes an attractive man. Physically, you're attractive unless you've significantly changed in appearance since your hiatus on here.

 

[Ajidica]

How is my attitude offensive when 100% of humans I approach online refuse to want to meet me based on my looks? You can say what you want or fling any accusations that you want, but if you were using Tinder you wouldn't swipe whichever the direction is to express interest if you simply saw my pictures there.

I think it is worth quoting Traitorfish again, because you seemed to have missed it:

Maybe the reason that people using online dating services seem to privelege superficial characteristics is because most online dating services are structured entirely around that exact premise.

Why do you think I am misanthropic? I am openly misanthropic, misogynist, misandrist, anti natalist, anti human, VHEMNT, anything else you want to add because of the 34 years of human society and interactions I have lived with so far.

In that case, why should anyone want to spend time with you or care about you?

I can't even approach people with a friendly greeting or question and have them interested in dating me because of how I look.

Expecting people to automatically consider you datable material upon "hello" is unlikely to result in success.

I don't look at the world through rose tinted glasses like most, and if you care to want to read up on the following, it is scientifically proven that people with my list of mental health issues see the world and other people vastly more clearly and realistically than normal people,

Really channeling your inner Norma Desmond here.

"I am right, everybody else is wrong!"

 

[bhavv]

'Expecting people to automatically consider you datable material upon "hello" is unlikely to result in success.'

OK then should I try the following:

'Hello, would you like to sleep in my bed?'

'Hello, would you like to be %&-£ed'?

Because these are two literal chat up lines I have seen used by 10/10 white men that worked on two girls I used to know.

And I'm not just saying hello, you really have no grasp on reality at all, and obviously this thread is now going to further devolve into people doing nothing by blaming and shaming me entirely by making things up.

I should have stopped replying after my second lengthy post, as my previous time when I used to use this forum used to show me, its a terrible place for me to be full of mostly over entitled and easily offended whiney children who have severely flawed abilities to form accurate conclusions or correctly analyze and interpret information provided to them, and you mostly rely on severely flawed argumentum ad populum.

"I am right, everybody else is wrong!"

See the last three words I typed above this. Feel free to continue on your popular virgin / Incel shaming fest here, because its obviously right just because everyone else is doing it therefore its cool. I'll go back to living in the real world and rely on actual proven statistics and research rather than what a bunch of keyboard experts on an off topic section want to gather together to believe in just because everyone else and the media tells you its cool.

Moderator Action: Offensive cartoons deleted --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Also, if the problem as a lot of hypocrites state is that Incels just dont like being friendzoned, then how exactly is attitude the issue if they are at least nice enough to get friendzoned?

Virgin shaming is the new coolest fad, and Civfanatics is yet another low IQ ******** on the internet to jump in on the bandwagon, and thats totally fine cos everyone else also does it. Continue to enjoy yourselves.

Moderator Action: Do not post material on CFC with that kind of language in it, please. --LM

 

[Ajidica]

OK then should I try the following:

'Hello, would you like to sleep in my bed?'

'Hello, would you like to be %&-£ed'?

Because these are two literal chat up lines I have seen used by 10/10 white men that worked on two girls I used to know.

Without knowing anything else, are you really unhappy you didn't get it on with two super-ratchet girls? (Who sound like the type who could give you a disease just by looking at you.)

I should have stopped replying after my second lengthy post, as my previous time when I used to use this forum used to show me, its a terrible place for me to be full of mostly over entitled and easily offended whiney children who have severely flawed abilities to form accurate conclusions or correctly analyze and interpret information provided to them, and you mostly rely on severely flawed argumentum ad populum.

I'm a little confused as to how I am "over entitled" or "easy offended" here.

 

[Lohrenswald]