TR02 - Losers move up to Emporer

[Tubby Rower]

There is one Legion in a border town near Russia in the north. Currently I believe that is the only one. We have one city building legions and I thought that that would be fine. Since no one has iron except Aztecs (and they have no horses), there will be no knights running around except ours

I think that the goal in the Russian war should be to get at least 2 cities into Russian territory around our FP. Definately take control of the furs. Then get technology from her. I'd trade someone for Monotheism before peace is settled. This will allow us to get Theology and Chivalry in a potential peace deal.

 

[Mach]

Oh, btw tub, the save seems to be a broken link, so I couldn't look at it this morning...

Tub mentioned that Rome will have happiness problems at next growth, but I thought I had it set up so it would be at 15spt by now with little or no growth, that's why I wanted to look at the save...

 

[Tubby Rower]

OK. The save link is fixed. Here it is again in case you don't want to scroll up.

I didn't MM Rome after it grew to whatever it is now, so you can probably get it there with the use of some of the surrounding hills.

 

[dmanakho]

Our northern settler pair - i would probably move it one tile west to settle.

 

[eldar]

Did we not upgrade our Vet warriors to Legions?

 

[Tubby Rower]

No upgrades so we could get research going. I didn't disband any reg warriors since we could use them to defend some of our undefended border towns. Minute Man can do that if we really need it. I think that we just need more cities for unit support and as the horses/knights come off of the production line reg warriors can be disbanded.

 

[Minute Man]

OK, got it now. I probably won't be able to play until this evening, though, so keep the suggestions coming. So far the plan looks like:

- Disconnect Egypt's horses, then get whatever we can for peace
- Check Rome's MM
- Found a city with our settler (one tile west?)
- Figure out what to do with our warriors. Upgrading a couple of vets to legions seems like a better idea than building new ones, but we'll see how it goes
- Begin the assault on Russia, but save the legions until we're getting close to making peace (which probably won't happen on my turns). Concentrate on taking cities near the FP and furs.
- Look into trading for Monotheism

Anything I've missed?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I don't know how much upgrading you'll be able to do. We shouldn't need a lot of them. Just one or five. I've used up some of our treasury running research on Invention a little high. I'd keep the sci rate where it is and don't be shy about upping the lux.

Also, try to start building markets one at a time in the core cities.

One tile west for the new blockade city is correct. The hill can be used for defense and it would narrow the passage from Egypt to our territory.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

MM's list is good. More worried about continuing on the path to Cav than templars and knights. Looking at save soon.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Looked at the save. I would change:
Antium to rax
Jerulsam to rax
caesarea to library
giza to harbor
research to zero(with a lone Dr. Frankenstein), the world knows Inv. Why are we running fairly hard to get it?

We should maintain good relations with the celts and babs.

Don't disband the warriors. Send them to Iron Wines for garrison duty and later upgrading if needed.

Disconnecting Cleo's horses isn't a big deal. As soon as we make peace, she'll reconnect 'em anyway.

A more immediate concern is that stack of ponies on Cleo's border that could really help whoop a** on Cathy.

IMHO, we should(gonna sound self serving, apologies to Tubby)wait at least 5 turns to start the Russian campaign. Pound with fist, don't whip with wet noodle.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Originally Posted by Bede
Temples...temples...priests are prevaricating parasites who pillage the body politic.

You want culture, build libraries. You get something back from the investment.

You want content citizens, build marketplaces, trade for luxuries, build towns for luxuries, build colonies for luxuries.

If happiness is a problem in a settler or worker farm, it is a self-limiting problem. Raise the luxury tax, hire an MP, you only need to make the expenditure for a couple of turns. Temples are with you forever and are a permanent drag on the economy.

I've been meaning to get this up for a while. Trust the venerable list making monk. I never build temples unless my civ is religious.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

And here is my first try at a rant, although it probably won't have utility in this game.

Hospitals are evil and bad. If your cities can grow with hospitals, your spacing is too loose (unless you're going for a 20k kulture win). They force you to build happiness improvements and generate pollution. The proper use of cops and engineers obliviates the need for hospitals in most situations.

You were warned I was gonna be wordy tonight.

@ MM feel free to run with your plan and ignore my thoughts. I just wanna play again

 

[Minute Man]

IHT - 150 BC

I find myself agreeing with the Admiral on just about every point. That's actually rather disturbing. Change a couple of builds to barracks and Giza to a harbor.

The tech situation is a bit annoying. THere's one group of civs who have Mono and Invention (but we have nothing to offer them) and another group that has nothing to offer us. I agree that it's not worth spending lots of cash researching Invention right now. I look into buying it, but everybody wants 30+ gpt for it, which is more than I'm willing to pay. Looks like it's time to bust out the pointy stick. Turn science down to a single scientist.

It's been suggested to found a city one tile west of where the settler currently is, but I really don't think that's a good idea - it's actually within the radius of Brundisium, which is one of our core cities. Since this is meant to be a blockade city as much as anything, I'll found one space east instead.

There isn't much to be gained by pushing the war with Egypt any further, so dial up Cleo and see what she'll give for peace. Settle for Abydos, her treasury (62g), and 5 gpt. To be honest, I'm not sure we even really want Abydos, as it's a long way from our core, size 1, and totally corrupt, but I figure we might as well take it. So now we can concentrate on Cathy. It looks like we also got rid of some war weariness, but not quite enough to turn lux down.

Note that the Celts are turning into a culture monster - they have roughly 6x ours, and it's only going to increase. We're going to have to do something about them before too long, or some of our cities are going to be in danger of flipping.

(nothing interesting for the first few turns, just moving military west.)

6 - 30 BC

Our horses from the Egyptian front arrive at the Russian border, giving us a total of 15 at hand. I think that's plenty. Dial up Cathy and inform her that we're going to be helping ourselves to a chunk of her territory.

Unfortunately Smolensk is guarded by the spearmen from hell, but fortunately most of our horses retreat rather than dying. I love horses. Smolensk taken with only a couple of casualties.

7 - 10 BC

Montezuma demands 45 gold in tribute. He's far away, but it's not really worth risking a war over some pocket change, so I reluctantly pay him.

8 - 10 AD

Resistance in Smolensk ends. Rush a temple just to annoy the Admiral.

St. Petersburg (the city that's been hiding in the fog SW of Ravenna all this time) falls. Another annoying spearman, but he didn't have any friends, so no casualties.

9 - 30 AD

Lose two horses (and redline a third) trying to kill one stupid Russian longbow on a mountain (he was in the path of the advance). I think our horsemen need some instructions on which end of the spear to hold. Oh, well, our military budget needed to be trimmed a bit anyway.

10 - 50 AD

Despite the fact that Yekaterinburg is size seven, have no trouble at all clearing out the three spearmen (and one longbow) defending. Don't you love the RNG? Anyway, the city is ours. Now there's nothing between us and the gates (and furs) of Moscow.

Here's the situation on the Russian front:

Notes:

The war with Russia is going extremely well. We have enough horses to just overrun them. After a turn or two to heal and move more forces up, we should be ready to march on Moscow. Can probably take another city or two (I'd start with Rostov) after that.

I haven't triggered the GA yet - I did upgrade a few vet warriors, but I've been using the legions mostly to guard the far borders. There are a couple near the action, so you can pick off a wounded unit whenever you feel is appropriate.

I haven't gotten any infrastructure built - I was thinking we'd just do a bunch of markets and libraries when we get our GA. But given our overwhelming numerical superiority (and almost equally overwhelming support bill), it might be worth changing a city or two to markets now.

The space up to the Egyptian border is filled, so there's a settler heading toward the west (I think he's under the horse in the screenshot) to be used in filling gaps (or razing / replacing).

Keep an eye on the Celts! They're absolutely running away in the culture race. Recommend trimming them back a bit when we're done with Russia.

Haven't checked the price on Invention lately. You can either try to buy it from somebody or get it from Russia in the peace talks. I'm coming around to the point of view that going after Chivalry is a waste of time, especially since nobody seems to have pikes yet, so let's just head for cavs.

A couple of our size two cities (like Abydos) that haven't been hooked up yet are unhappy, so that's where our scientist is currently located.

Admiral Kutzov - up!
eldar - on deck
dman
Mach
Tubby Rower
Minute Man - just played

Have at 'em, Admiral!

 

[dmanakho]

Yahooo!!!!!

Good M-Man

Certainly doesn't sound like a great patriotic war for russians..
But you know Napoleon captured Moscow in 1812 and then had to run all the way back to paris chased by russian cossacks...
Just don't repeat his experience

Oh. I believe we can put more cities north and east from Ravenna...
it is about time to generate GA... lets take moscow and start GA
We can finish the war in GA already and use most of it for infra build all around..
Then we will kick everybody's bottoms for sure.

EDIT: I suggest we buy invention and then if nobody has gunpowder try to go for max on it. If fellows have gunpowder try to buy it as well.
I think it's okay to spend money now if it makes us one step closer to MT.
Unless russia will be willing to share their knowledge in exchange for peace that is.

 

[Mach]

Great job Minute Man! Moscow in range, looks good!

I looked at the save...Arabia has Mono, and he'll trade it for Rep or Feud, plus some chump change. I call that good, too.

Edit: raze and replace Moscow? Its flip chances will be high...

 

[dmanakho]

Good... let's also do what Mach says - trade mono with arabs and check if anybody has chivalry..
if they do lets buy and if we have knights now we will be even more powerful.
(khm.... Admiral has to make a decision what's more important invention or chivalry... it is all semantics right now.)

 

[Minute Man]

Good... let's also do what Mach says - trade mono with arabs and check if anybody has chivalry..

The Russians and (I think) the Aztecs started Knights Templar during my turns, so Chivalry is out there now. We're doing pretty well with the horde of horsemen, though, so I didn't put a high priority on getting Mono and Chivalry. But if we can get Mono from the Arabs easily, we should do that - we might be able to get both Chivalry and Invention in the peace talks.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

looks good MM.

IIRC, the Celts got Artemis and that's what's generating a lot of their culture. Education makes it a self limiting problem.

I'll work on straving the Russian cities and planting a couple new ones in the NE.

Will look at the trades and then decide on our path.

I've done (almost) a literal 180 on where to send the foot soldiers. I now think they should be the ones to go SW after Brennus in all those jungles.

I'll probably have my set up later.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Recon: Celts have Artemis and are building Templar

70: Kill a warrior, moving troops to disconnect Cathy's horses. Trade Abu Rep. for Mono staight up. The haves, including Cathy all have Inv. and Chiv.

Babylon finishes Knights Templar.

90: Disconnect Cathy's horses.

LB attacks our legion, loses flawlessy, triggers our GA

110: Battle of Moscow: 4/4 horse def. 3/3 spear. Ditto. Ditto. 4/4 horse loses to 3/3 spear. 4/4 horse def. 3/3 spear, raze Moscow. Take Yatutsk as well.

130: Healing. positioning for assaults on Rostov, Novgorod, and Vladivostok. Incoming archer pair @ Iron Wines

150: Battle of Rostov: 4/4 legion loses to 5/5 spear. 5/5 horse def. 4/5 spear. 4/5 horse loses to 3/3 spear. 3/3 spear retreats 4/4 horse. 4/4 horse def. 3/3 spear. 4/4 horse def. 2/3 spear. Bryansk I: 3/3 spear def. 2 of our horses. Build Moscodinium, claim furs. Battle of Vladivostok: 4/4 legion kills 3/3 spear. Ditto.

170: Battle of Novgorod: 4/4 horse def. 3/3 spear. Ditto.

190: Battle of Yaroslavl': 3/3 spear def. our 4/4 horse. 4/4 horse def. 3/3 spear. Ditto. 3/3 spear def. our 4/4 horse. 4/4 horse def. 2/3 spear.

210: Bryansk II: 3/3 spear RL 3 of our horses. Curse the PRNG.

230: Build Artaxata. Bryansk III: 5/5 horse kills 3/3 spear. ditto. Let Cathy off the hook for Inv. + Chiv. Buy guns from Hammi for 59gpt. Buy Chem from Monte for 74gpt. Drop lux to 10%. Raise science to 40% (metallurgy in 15)

250: Spend some money.

Let the markets and ducts finish then start knights. @ Yakutsk, chop forests to rush library. Expanding those borders will bring in a salt. There is an unconnected salt near Smolensk. Make sure you starve Rostov to size 1 (important!)

War plans follow.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

After 10-20 turns of prep, we should go after the Celtic cultural monster. Due to gpt deals, Hammi and Monte should be off our backs. Military advisor says we're strong vs. Hammi and average vs. Brennus and Monte. Abu has Zeus. An alliance with Hammi and Abu would give them somewhere to use their respective crusaders and ancient cavalry. I'll get a dotmap up later. Also we're average vs. Mao so he's making a comeback. Research towards MT at the highest pace we can afford. Wouldn't worry about upgrading the horses too much.