Turning on a red?

[amadeus]

No, I’m not talking about reporting communists to the FBI. I’m talking about traffic laws.

When I first got here I had to learn the Japanese road laws and they don’t allow turning on a red light unless there is a green left arrow (left since traffic moves on the left.)

 

[really]

Was in a car with my brother in law last week who lives in the US.
He was driving back from lunch. (My wife/his sister was in the other car).
He turned at a stop sign onto a main road (no lights but same principle)
Then he said - I don't know why that lady gave me such a dirty look.
I told him it was because you ignored a stop sign and drove into traffic as if it was a merge/filter ignoring the stop sign / her right of way.
He wasn't impressed - he got his licence here in Ireland but never drove much here, he should know better.
Edit: Illegal in Ireland without a filter light.
It's dangerous for pedestrians. Driver is focusing on cars looking for a gap rather than anything else.

 

[Birdjaguar]

In many US states turning right on a red light is OK after a full stop. Left turns depend upon the intersection.

 

[mitsho]

You mean turn towards the right or make a u-turn?

I assume the latter. They recently allowed turning right on certain intersections for bicycles. That seems sensible to me. Cars can wait. Security goes first.

 

[Verbose]

"Turning on a red" seems a very specific American abomination – I don't think very many places allow that in traffic aside from the US. It seems a totally alien concept in Europe, and the Japanese seem to be similar in that regard.

 

[emzie]

Right on red is legal unless otherwise marked, or you're on Montreal Island. Everytime I drive into Montreal, I repeat aloud to myself 3x "no right on red!" Left on red is legal from a one way street onto another. Left on red is one of my favourite things to do when driving because it seems so wrong xD

 

[Samson]

I think turn on red is sensible in some places, but does need to take into account pedestrian crossing. It seems in places in the US I have gone to work. I have not seen it outside of the US.

It is only necessary 'cos the US is so into traffic lights rather than roundabouts though, roundabouts are clearly the best way of handling junctions that have any amount of traffic.

 

[Kyriakos]

I don't drive. But yes, in some roads this is allowed, and it can be extremely dangerous for the pedestrian who isn't aware of it.

 

[Arwon]

In my jurisdiction it isn't legal by default to turn with traffic from the outer lane at a stop light... but you don't actually find many intersections which are just bare solid red yellow green traffic lights with no further details.

Nearly every larger intersection and most smaller ones have a slip lane for turning with traffic (ie left) before the lights. The split means this is a lane which is not controlled by the traffic lights, here you just give way to cross traffic cars and any pedestrians, and then go when able. They look like this:

Some other intersections have a "left on red permitted after stopping" sign for turning with traffic at the lights:

Most larger ones also have arrow lights for turning across traffic (right turns), creating points in the cycle where only turning is permitted:

 

[Hrothbern]

I don't drive. But yes, in some roads this is allowed, and it can be extremely dangerous for the pedestrian who isn't aware of it.

With many amples in NL, in urban area, turning right has even a delay time when driving straight forward is allowed with the green light.
There is often a separate traffic light for turning right for cars and bicycles to make it possible for pedestrians to cross first.
This is also protecting the people on bicycles who want to drive straight forward (heaped up to the right side of the cars when waiting for red).

I think it is all a matter of the traffic densities of cars, bikes and pedestrians.
When there is hardly any bicycle or pedestrian traffic, you better watch your ass anyway as cyclist or pedestrian.
Busses and trucks the most dangerous for cyclists even if they both turn right because if that bus/truck driver takes the curve too narrow, a cyclist cannot escape the after end or rear wheels of that bus-truck going to the right when the sidewalk is (as usual) 10 cm vertical or so elevatated. Special mirrors for this by law obliged for the drivers, but do they always look ?
(The techical safe but expensive option would be that the rear wheels would turn as well a bit to prevent the rear end making a narrower curve than the front of the bus-truck)

The 4 biggest municipalities in NL: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, The Hague have decided that they want over time decrease ALL city car traffic to max 30 km/hr and with lanes etc increase safety for cyclists and pedestrians. The Climate and Fine Dust Particle Health helping. (Whereby noted that the tires of cars cause a huge amount of FDP, it is not only the Diesel => electric cars do not solve the FDP adequately in high density urban traffic, they only take away the fossil fuel FDP of their exhaust)

 

[amadeus]

Doing a little research on Japanese road signals, I wondered why at some intersections there are green lights and others red lights with arrows pointing in all three directions. The difference turns out to be that under a green signal pedestrians are allowed to cross with traffic, but not on the red with green arrows. I’ll look out for one and maybe take a picture if I see one somewhere.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Turning on red is generally illegal in the UK.

Brake pads also produce a lot of FDP.

 

[The_J]

Not legal in Germany, and I've not seen it in NL or FR so far (but I've not driven there a lot either).

 

[EnglishEdward]

When I went to Rome in 2002, I noticed that the denizens there merely regarded a
red light, as a slow down, check carefully and give way or if clear proceed, instruction.

 

[tjs282]

Not legal in Germany

This is not 100% true. I know of at least two T-junctions, near Winsen/Lühe (Niedersachsen) and near Lübeck (Schleswig-Holstein) which have a "green arrow pointing right" sign attached to the traffic light box governing traffic on the 'vertical' of the T:

(graphic pinched from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#Europe )

...indicating that right turns (towards the built-up area) are permitted on red, provided that no vehicles are crossing the T from the left, i.e. the red light actually only applies to traffic turning left onto the 'crossbar' of the T.

However, both these junctions are at the bottom of short Autobahn off-ramps, within commercial/industrial zones, and thus (1) need to be kept as clear as possible, to prevent traffic backing up onto the Autobahn and (2) are unlikely to be heavily used by pedestrians.

I have never seen such green-arrow signage within urban/residential areas, that I can recall -- although I have seen plenty of light-sets with a dedicated 'right-turn filter' green arrow (similar to what Amadeus described), which may be on a slightly different timer to the main red light, and usually also in conjunction with a flashing yellow beacon to warn that pedestrians may be crossing in front of right-turning vehicles.

A law was also recently brought in (at least in Hamburg, not sure if it was also Federal) that trucks must now slow to walking-speed when turning right at traffic-lights, to try and reduce the numbers of pedestrians and cyclists getting injured/ killed by inattentive truckers.

 

[Berzerker]

I think turn on red is sensible in some places, but does need to take into account pedestrian crossing. It seems in places in the US I have gone to work. I have not seen it outside of the US.

It is only necessary 'cos the US is so into traffic lights rather than roundabouts though, roundabouts are clearly the best way of handling junctions that have any amount of traffic.

traffic circles have been replacing intersections here when major construction allows it
we dont have any circles downtown in higher traffic areas though, I'm sure we have stats on accident risk but I definitely prefer circles.

 

[Arwon]

I think turn on red is sensible in some places, but does need to take into account pedestrian crossing. It seems in places in the US I have gone to work. I have not seen it outside of the US.

It is only necessary 'cos the US is so into traffic lights rather than roundabouts though, roundabouts are clearly the best way of handling junctions that have any amount of traffic.

Or you can be like us and have like one roundabout per thousand people, but still have with-traffic left turns on red available on a lot of the other light controlled intersections.

 

[E.man]

In my jurisdiction it isn't legal by default to turn with traffic from the outer lane at a stop light... but you don't actually find many intersections which are just bare solid red yellow green traffic lights with no further details.

Nearly every larger intersection and most smaller ones have a slip lane for turning with traffic (ie left) before the lights. The split means this is a lane which is not controlled by the traffic lights, here you just give way to cross traffic cars and any pedestrians, and then go when able. They look like this:

View attachment 615721

Some other intersections have a "left on red permitted after stopping" sign for turning with traffic at the lights:

View attachment 615722

Most larger ones also have arrow lights for turning across traffic (right turns), creating points in the cycle where only turning is permitted:

View attachment 615723

Hey mate. (Waving). See my avatar.

You've got that very rare 'turn on red' on Limestone I see.

 

[really]

The city next to me has been removing roundabouts from the ring road over the past several years.
(pop about 75k)
They were put in when the city was smaller.

They are being removed because they can't manage the traffic well, aren't good for pedestrians or cyclists, can't prioritise public transport etc.

 

[The_J]

This is not 100% true. I know of at least two T-junctions, near Winsen/Lühe (Niedersachsen) and near Lübeck (Schleswig-Holstein) which have a "green arrow pointing right" sign attached to the traffic light box governing traffic on the 'vertical' of the T:

(graphic pinched from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#Europe )

...indicating that right turns (towards the built-up area) are permitted on red, provided that no vehicles are crossing the T from the left, i.e. the red light actually only applies to traffic turning left onto the 'crossbar' of the T.

Yes, this is correct, this exists. But I think Amadeus means without, since he also points out the situation with an arrow in the OP.