U.S. in a Post-U.N. World

[MattII]

The UN is ultimately doomed to fail due to the fact that there is no global culture against which crimes can be judged. Humans, it seems, will attempt to manipulate any given situation to their own personal advantage, and so the individual attitudes of people and governments will stop most attempts to force conformity.

 

[Aleph-Null]

bumping thread

 

[Princeps]

I feel like its closing time...

 

[Aleph-Null]

I bumped it so that I would not forget to read bigfatron's comments while checking out the rest of the threads.

 

[Aleph-Null]

I'm not here to debate the death penalty; that's for anothr thread. Let's stick with whether the UN is a governemnt shall we?

I appreciate as an American your government gains its legitimacy from the people, as all democracies/republics do, and all countries should IMHO.

However you confuse legitimacy and authority - there have been many non-democratic governments that still exercise authority without the legitimacy that democracy bestows.

Yes, the continuing membership of the UN of the US and other nations gives the UN legitimacy, as membership of other associations (International or otherwise) gives legitimacy to those associations.

However, the UN has no inherent authority, no authority which is not delegated to it, and that authority can be removed by reversal of that delegation decision, i.e. abrogation of the treaty concerned.

Inherent authority aka sovereignty is the defining characteristic of a nation state - something the UN is not.

BFR, the issue that I have with this argument is that such would apply to virtually every representative government or democracy. Allow me to demonstrate by editing your post:

I'm not here to debate the death penalty; that's for anothr thread. Let's stick with whether the US is a governemnt shall we?

I appreciate as an American your government gains its legitimacy from the people, as all democracies/republics do, and all countries should IMHO.

However you confuse legitimacy and authority - there have been many non-democratic governments that still exercise authority without the legitimacy that democracy bestows.

Yes, the continuing membership of the CITIZEN <in> the CONGRESS and other BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT give the US legitimacy, as membership of other associations (state, federal or otherwise) gives legitimacy to those associations.

However, the US has no inherent authority, no authority which is not delegated to it <by the people>, and that authority can be removed by reversal of that delegation decision, i.e. abrogation of the CONSTITUTION concerned.

Inherent authority aka sovereignty is the defining characteristic of an individual - something the US is not.

 

[Hamlet]

The US isn't going to leave the UN, and it isn't going to be abolished. So I don't really see the point of this thread.

 

[ainwood]

I bumped it so that I would not forget to read bigfatron's comments while checking out the rest of the threads.

Moderator Action: The you should 'subscribe' to the thread. Do not bump a thread unless you have something constructive to add to it - i.e. you should have bumped it with your response.

 

[Aleph-Null]

The US isn't going to leave the UN, and it isn't going to be abolished. So I don't really see the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is to prepare for the unexpected. Far from stopping WW3, the U.N. may very well be what causes it as it attempts to grow larger, more powerful, and consolidate that power around that globe with a maniacal european secretary general. Even now, the U.N. seeks to have control over when the U.S. can and can not use its military. Kerry ran on a platform that the U.S. military only be deployed by the U.N. to serve the U.N., thus if in the next election a Democrat is elected who shares those principles it becomes a very real situation that everyone must adapt and prepare for in order to resist.

 

[Hamlet]

The point of this thread is to prepare for the unexpected. Far from stopping WW3, the U.N. may very well be what causes it as it attempts to grow larger, more powerful, and consolidate that power around that globe with a maniacal european secretary general.

I know that direct insults are frowned upon on here, so I'll just say 'Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh-kay' and leave it at that.