UKIP go from strength to strength

[gay_Aleks]

When UKIP says reactionary, they mean go back socially 50 years.
When you say reactionary, you mean take the whole thing back 200 years, and then 50 years for good measure.

Vote UKIP now to save yourself from the Cavaliers!

 

[Borachio]

Worst result they've ever got so far was 17% of the vote. Now that they're more like 7% we'll see an extermination.

I live in hope that you're right. The Liberals sank to 5 MPs didn't they? Before merging with the Social Democratic Party, who in turn were a split from the Labour party.

I don't know. All these politicians milling around. Why don't they stand in one place long enough for me to take serious pot shots at them?

But seriously, there's a role for a third party in UK politics, it seems. It's a bit alarming to think that this will be played by UKIP, which seems somewhat far to the right of centre.

 

[Tee Kay]

I live in hope that you're right. The Liberals sank to 5 MPs didn't they? Before merging with the Social Democratic Party, who in turn were a split from the Labour party.

I don't know. All these politicians milling around. Why don't they stand in one place long enough for me to take serious pot shots at them?

But seriously, there's a role for a third party in UK politics, it seems. It's a bit alarming to think that this will be played by UKIP, which seems somewhat far to the right of centre.

There'll be multiple third parties, rather; SNP in Scotland, Plaid in Wales, and UKIP in England.

 

[bathsheba666]

People think Farage is a good egg.
They think Johnson is a good egg.
They obviously like their charlatans to be pantomime sincere.

Will they ever learn ? probably not

 

[Tahuti]

But I guess you posit a world with the socioeconomic conditions of serfdom while preserving modern technology, which probably looks a great deal more like Tsarist Russia than any strictly medieval society. Not that this is a marked improvement.

A marked improvement from what?

 

[brennan]

It's a sad indictment of British politics that the likes of Farage can be seen as a good thing.

 

[Traitorfish]

Isn't this how all political parties have started out?

The Labour Party started out the opposite: no clear policies, but a general intention to represent working class interests within and then alongside the Liberal Party. Even the nationalist parties, in practice, took a similar route, because although they always had the one big plank of national self-government or independence, their actual appeal has always been the representation of regional interests. The only group UKIP could credibly claim to represent is old middle-class white people, and they already have ample representation through the Conservative Party.

 

[Tee Kay]

The only group UKIP could credibly claim to represent is old middle-class white people, and they already have ample representation through the Conservative Party.

I seem to be under the impression that their support base is lower-middle class to working-class.

 

[Traitorfish]

Not really. Their membership and support-base is disaffected middle-class Tories, and while they can make a fair grab at the working class racist vote in European elections, it's not consistent or reliable.

 

[Flying Pig]

I think that fact makes a Tory-UKIP coalition unlikely: Cameron has to rule it out categorically to minimise the power that UKIP have to attract voters who are basically Tory-minded but want the party to swing even further to the right. Essentially, so many of his core voters want exactly that coalition that it would end up with him much weaker than he would like.

 

[Borachio]

The Labour Party started out the opposite: no clear policies, but a general intention to represent working class interests within and then alongside the Liberal Party. Even the nationalist parties, in practice, took a similar route, because although they always had the one big plank of national self-government or independence, their actual appeal has always been the representation of regional interests. The only group UKIP could credibly claim to represent is old middle-class white people, and they already have ample representation through the Conservative Party.

Does UKIP have any clear policies apart from the removal of the UK from Europe, and a rather vague antipathy towards immigrants, or thinly veiled racism (to be blunt)?

Its general intention is to represent "British", or rather "English", people of hazy definition. Probably "white". Their actual appeal could be said to be the representation of ethnic interests.

Farage is a bit of demagogue, isn't he? I'd have said the middle-classes are the least likely to vote for him. Though you may be right that older people could.

True? Not true?

 

[Tee Kay]

Does UKIP have any clear policies apart from the removal of the UK from Europe, and a rather vague antipathy towards immigrants, or thinly veiled racism (to be blunt)?

Also, science-denial (eg wrt climate change)

 

[Borachio]

Oh, are they climate change deniers? Seems fairly consistent with their general lack of insight into things.

To be honest, I haven't examined their stance in any detail at all. Maybe I should, but I get the impression it's not worth the time. I shan't be voting for them, unless there's some major catastrophic seismic upheaval in the British political scene to make it an option.

 

[Senethro]

Oh, are they climate change deniers? Seems fairly consistent with their general lack of insight into things.

To be honest, I haven't examined their stance in any detail at all. Maybe I should, but I get the impression it's not worth the time. I shan't be voting for them, unless there's some major catastrophic seismic upheaval in the British political scene to make it an option.

Until recently they were for a single flat rate of tax for rich and poor alike. No idea what they'll come up with next.

 

[Borachio]

Compulsory taxidermy for the under 5s, I shouldn't wonder.

(As in the under 5s receiving instruction in the techniques of taxidermy, not being subject to it, I should mention; before someone thinks I'm a monster.)

 

[Flying Pig]

They stand for that particularly dangerous British take on 'common sense' - the largely uninformed intuition of the (privately) educated, middle-class, rural (at least at heart), white, male, Anglican, small-c-conservative. That's an archetype which people who don't naturally fit it actually aspire to; Farage is a role model just as Jeremy Clarkson or Boris Johnson can be. It's dangerous because their deceit and spin is as strong as that of any other party, but they're able to present themselves as appealing to 'common sense' and being 'no-nonsense' about things. There's not really a clearer example of that than Farage himself, whose general demeanour allows him to rail against politicians of all other flavours while he draws the politician's salary on which he's supported himself for upwards of a decade.

 

[Hygro]

The British Liberal Democrats are like the Dutch D66: They are like an ideological avant-garde who set the tone for the politics of the society they live in by playing a role as a flag bearer for the ruling party in exchange for some of their policies (like gay marriage), though they pretty much suck at actually ruling. D66 pretty much nearly got extinct after they participated in the Balkenende II government. Likewise, Liberal Democrats may end up a similar fate. D66 seems to be rebounding to these days, though again like the Liberal Democrats, they don't have a support base (aside from eggheads and nauseatingly politically correct suburb dwellers) and rely completely on swing voters.

So it's an entire party of Joe Liebermans?

 

[gangleri2001]

Good to know. Keep fighting the EU up there. The rest of your politics are totally irrelevant to me.

 

[Antilogic]

So it's an entire party of Joe Liebermans?

The Connecticut for Lieberman Party was full of Joe Lieberman.

I do not consider it a successful party.

 

[Tahuti]

So it's an entire party of Joe Liebermans?

Mebbe