brennan
Argumentative Brit
Getting more votes than anyone else isn't a popular mandate?
UKIP go from strength to strength
- Thread starter Quackers
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Old Hippy
Deity
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sometimes more people have not voted for the winner, so no it is not a popular mandate...
Well, if a party only secures 40% of the votes, but that represents a plurality, they are elected under FPTP, yet the majority didn't vote for them (or didn't vote at all). If we're devoted to the idea of popular representation, that's hardly the best way of going about things.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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I heard that the Eurovision method of voting is fairest, and the most representative: giving the top candidate douze points, the next one fewer, and so on down to the 10th (or whatever) choice.
I forget what it's called. And I don't know why it works out as the most representative, either.
I forget what it's called. And I don't know why it works out as the most representative, either.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
You're a darn dirty rotten racist for daring to love your country, or so I have learnt this week.
Borachio
Way past lunacy
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That might make some sense if my country belonged to me. But it doesn't. I belong to it.
There's a category error going on here.
(Which is a phrase I love to use, since it makes it out that I know what I'm talking about. And who's to know that I don't?)
There's a category error going on here.
(Which is a phrase I love to use, since it makes it out that I know what I'm talking about. And who's to know that I don't?)
brennan
Argumentative Brit
The point of FPTP isn't popular representation, although the suggestion that it is undemocratic is clearly absurd. FPTP is a system that is more likely to produce a strong government, since it does not need an overwhelming majority vote to put a majority party to power. It's the old toss up between democracy and capability in your elected representatives.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
"Love Britain" wouldn't be so controversial if the implication that immigrants aren't welcome wasn't inherent in that statement. That's basically what it's hinting at - "Let's keep Britain British, because we love it", or however you want to phrase it.
"Arbeit macht frei" is also a quite innocent statement, until you consider the context.
"Arbeit macht frei" is also a quite innocent statement, until you consider the context.
The same way we "learnt" that gay marriage will lead inexorably to paedophilia, incest and all those other utterly unrelated matters that only come to prominence because the most vocal members of any group are generally the most extreme?
Oruc
Reactionary
Well I can't control what you associate with certain phrases or words, I can't control your thoughts. That's something you'll need to work through on your own or go to counseling maybe.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I thought the controversy was in the second part "Love Britain. Vote Ukip" If you don't vote UKIP, you don't love Brittan. If it's Warpus' explanation then I feel it's a mistake, since what prevents immigrants from loving Britain?
Now I don't know much about UKIP, but if anti-immigration is it's main pillar, and it uses that as a slogan, then you have to connect the dots. Love Britain, vote for our main policies. Love Britian, be anti-immigration. But as I said, that only works if anti-immigration is it's flagship.
Now I don't know much about UKIP, but if anti-immigration is it's main pillar, and it uses that as a slogan, then you have to connect the dots. Love Britain, vote for our main policies. Love Britian, be anti-immigration. But as I said, that only works if anti-immigration is it's flagship.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
Anti immigration, Anti eu is it's flagship.
Oruc
Reactionary
They're anti-EU immigration, especially Romanians. I guess they associate them with gypsies? Which is a bit harsh an entire nation being lumped in with gypsies. But they seem fine with commonwealth immigration. Well that was according to some people who came across as racist, they were mighty annoyed UKIP was picking up support when they weren't really anti-immigration.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Wait a second, I might be confusing this UKIP party with that other party.. you know.. the full on racists. I just read over UKIP's platform, and they seem to be quite confused about immigration, so I take back what I said.
My point was basically "It is clear what this party stands for and what they mean by this phrase". If it isn't, then my point doesn't apply.
But if they really are anti-immigration, then the message seems clear.
My point was basically "It is clear what this party stands for and what they mean by this phrase". If it isn't, then my point doesn't apply.
But if they really are anti-immigration, then the message seems clear.
Oruc
Reactionary
UKIPs the one with the cheap tacky looking logo, looks like a pound shop sign
Quackers
The Frog
You got confused between UKIP and the BNP? That's a massive oversight...
The following is a general idea behind UKIPs ideas on immigration. They aren't deadset against it but they will make it far more difficult to enter. Under these conditions I think only people with a very high income can afford to settle. It will decimate our foreign student population.
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