UN atomic agency has "serious concerns" about Iran's nuclear activities

LordRahl said:
Anyone with the least a bit of common sense knew this years ago. As usual, apologists and 'useful idiots' are the last ones to learn the truth. I feel sorry for Israel, because they will soon be living next to barbarians with nukes, as opposed to just barbarians.

All I can say, good luck with the preemptive strikes. Maybe it will hold those animals back another decade or so.

... Barbarians!? Animals!!? :lol:

The people that live in Iran are people just same as anyone else, and the people that rule Iran probably believe all there rhetoric about as much as you do. The men at the top hardly ever believe in there own spiel.

They need nukes to keep the countries that have nukes illegally from bombing them.

The Government of Iran needs to reform their country into something better ideally, or more realistically, shut the hell up, keep there head down and do what we say.
They should definitely not be wasting money on something that NATO and/or Israel is only going to blow up anyway.
 
... Oh, well that clears it up...wait, how is that any better?

The misquote makes it sound like Iran is determined to actively destroy Israel. Their actual view is that the state is destined to collapse with or without their interference. Most are just waiting for Israel to destroy itself rather than plotting its demise.
 
You haven't read anything I wrote on this topic in this thread or any other, admit that. Because if you had read my post, you'd know there are plenty of ways a crisis can escalate into a nuclear exchange despite the unwillingness of either side to use nuclear weapons at the beginning.

I read it, and disregarded it. An escalation is never impossible, but is is as unlikely with Iran as with any other nuclear-armed country. And I don't see any of the present ones volunteering do scrap their nuclear weapons. Notably, the two states most rabidly opposed to the iranians.

Iran is an inherently unstable country due to the regime that controls it

Doesn't matter. Even when the USSR dissolved no nukes were lost. You're invoking false problems.

it has many foreign policy ambitions in the Middle East, and it believes possession of nuclear weapons will help it achieve these ambitions and scare the West from hindering it. Allowing the Iranian regime to obtain nuclear weapons would thus be irresponsible.

Now this is the problem, the cause of all these plans to destroy Iran! Iran has... ambitions outside its borders? What a surprise! Every single large state in the planet has interests outside its borders! Iran's interests have been far more limited, so far, than those of either the US, Israel, or any of the big european countries, most of which reach into several continents and shamelessly invade countries and overthrow governments on a routine basis.

So, tell us, what exactly is Iran's "sin" here? What in those ambitions would be irresponsible" to allow, to the point of justifying a war with the aim of destroying Iran?

Because any intervention against Iran now would have that aim, and that aim only. It's not about the nuclear program, it's about ending Iran's ability to exercise any influence in the world. And that can only be achieved by bombing it back to the stone Age. Basically, apply the Iraq script all over again. It means bombing Iran's infrastructure to hell, destroying its electricity supply, it's water supply, its agriculture, its roads, its industry, killing a few million iranians. That is war aim in any "intervention" against Iran. And are you going to admit that you are for it? That you are a warmongering and mass murder sit well with you? Because it would be "irresponsible" to let the iranians alone?

What do you fear Iran may do after it has nuclear weapons to discourage its own destruction? That they might lend some support to the oppressed shia arabs in Saudi Arabia, back a revolt against its rulers in that most dictatorial of all regimes in the Middle East? That would be bad!

That they might do it in Qatar, where Saudi Arabia shipped troops to put down a local revolt just recently, while the freedom-loving "west" was bombing Libya? That would also be bad!

That they might meddle into Afghanistan in another attempt at ending the opium exports which cause them so much trouble at home? You know, the drugs which meddling, foreign occupying armies of NATO there seem unwilling to control? That too would be bad!

In all these things, a common theme: deny Iran an ability which the US and its allies are already exercising! If it's Iran doing it, it's a "threat" which must be prevented. It it is the US, it's a nice thing, to continue doing!

And stop pretending Iran is a victim here.

I don't have to pretend. The situation is crystal clear to any observer without a partisan blindfold: the "nuclear issue" is about Iran possibly, through acquiring nuclear weapons, ending the constant threat of being bombed to hell if it dares do any of the kind of thinks which the "big boys" are doing right on its borders. Or if it dares interfere with those doings!
And bombing Iran now, long before they can acquire nuclear weapons, would be a way of... preserving the possibility of bombing it later! It's all about keeping it weak. Just like the other recent wars, starting with Iraq 1992, the first great demonstration to the world of the new post-Cold War world order.
 
Part of the problem we face in non-interventionist (as in total noninterventionism) circles is that we are thought of as holding policy beliefs that go against our own interests. This is an absurd view, as it is the warmongers who have brought so much suffering on both our countries and the victims of our reckless foreign policy. Likewise for the charge that our policy is a tacit approval of Iran's dictatorial system. Again, an absurd claim—I think our own government here in the U.S. is much too dictatorial, so it should stand to reason that I would have little good to say about Iran's government. It is thant they do not understand that I do not grant myself the privilege of trying to determine the fate of the Iranians, just as I would similarly reject the Iranian people trying to impose their system on our nation.

Also, when are we going to get around to the issue that Iran is in no way a military threat to the U.S.?
 
Even Israel. Is Iran going to launch a ground invasion? Naval blockade? Air strikes? It would be laughable if not for the lives, and the global oil economy, at risk.
 
They're both probably right. I don't think Iran would waste its time building these things though if the U.S. just stayed the hell out of the Mideast.

I don't agree that isolationism would make the problem go away.


@innonisatu, you can argue that joining the nuclear club is a right for all civilized nations, but your assertion that it is protection from being bombed is absurd. Having nukes is at best a deterrent to being bombed.
 
I don't agree that isolationism would make the problem go away.
First, I'm not an isolationist. Isolationists would close our country off to the world, instituting legal barriers like tariffs and import quotas. I'm a non-interventionist, which means "...peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." (Thomas Jefferson)

Second, lots of countries have non-interventionist foreign policies and there are few threats against them.
 
First, I'm not an isolationist. Isolationists would close our country off to the world, instituting legal barriers like tariffs and import quotas. I'm a non-interventionist, which means "...peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none." (Thomas Jefferson)

Second, lots of countries have non-interventionist foreign policies and there are few threats against them.

I get your distinction, but even non-interventionists are not immune to foreign threats, simply because several such threats feel things like civil liberties are international weapons.
 
Even Israel. Is Iran going to launch a ground invasion? Naval blockade? Air strikes? It would be laughable if not for the lives, and the global oil economy, at risk.

Oh, I pretty much agree. Outside of its influence amongst a few terrorist groups, Iran poses next to no threat even to Israel. I mostly was just trying to point out that an honest assessment of Iran is impossible as long as we remain allied to Israel and Iran remains anti-Israel.
 
I get your distinction, but even non-interventionists are not immune to foreign threats, simply because several such threats feel things like civil liberties are international weapons.
What? :confused:

Oh, I pretty much agree. Outside of its influence amongst a few terrorist groups, Iran poses next to no threat even to Israel. I mostly was just trying to point out that an honest assessment of Iran is impossible as long as we remain allied to Israel and Iran remains anti-Israel.
I didn't mean to imply you believed such a thing, I was just trying to preempt anyone that tried to argue Iran was a military threat to Israel.
 
Why do you Americans think Iran dislikes the west?

Please don't come with some comment like "all muslims are evil" or "they hate our freedom".

Leave Iran alone and they will loose interest.

What are we actually doing to Iran? I hear a lot of rhethoric from the West, but see no real action...

I'm honestly curious.

Edit: Is there some sanctions? On things that may be used to build nukes?
 
What are we actually doing to Iran? I hear a lot of rhethoric from the West, but see no real action...

I'm honestly curious.

Edit: Is there some sanctions? On things that may be used to build nukes?

The fact that Iran has been occupied several times in the past century doesn't help, there are a lot of sanctions, 200 000 western troops on their boarder, constant threats of war, huge media campaigns against them. The anglo persian oil company is probably the largest cause of the conflict.
 
Bottom line; Iran will obtain nuclear weapons and we will have to live with that fact. It is possible that, at some point, we might convince them to disarm, but that will be incredibly difficult to do while we have so many, ourselves.
 
Bottom line; Iran will obtain nuclear weapons and we will have to live with that fact. It is possible that, at some point, we might convince them to disarm, but that will be incredibly difficult to do while we have so many, ourselves.

Convincing them to disarm their weapons will never happen. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and a very large percentage of the government are Twelver Shia Islam and Twelver believe they must start the end of the world to start judgment day. so when you think about them getting their hands on nukes.....not good they would never disarm.
 
The fact that Iran has been occupied several times in the past century doesn't help,
How many time it was occupied in the last century?
Apart in 1941 (during the second world war) I don't remember any other case.
Iran was also one of the very few countries in the region that was never a colony.

there are a lot of sanctions,
Yes, and rightly so.
The UN sanctions are connected to the refusal of collaboration with IAEA, and relatively limited in scope (limited to material and finance for the nuclear program).
The USA sanctions have a wider scope but still limited to specific items (e.g. weapons and technology).



200 000 western troops on their boarder,
That's a problem only if Iran consider the west an enemy, and there is a paranoia about being attacked.


constant threats of war, huge media campaigns against them.
I see a lot of threats coming out of Iran with disturbing regularity, but I see very little from the west.
When it was the lat time there was a demonstration against Iran with flag burning and all the rest of the show in a western country? (probably never)
The most vociferous people against Iran in the west are ... Iranians immigrants.
I wonder why...
 
Isn't this a similar repetition of the scenario leading the Iraq war ? there were all sort of reports, the COALITION of USA and UK attacked Iraq, which resulted in not only deaths for Iraqis but for US & UK as well.

and all this on a pretense of having nuclear weapons, which weren't there. Shouldn't the invading army be punished or something ? there was no casus belli...
so the good people did another thing... the opposite leader and murdered (on charges of genocide, but without a trial at the Hague !! surprise !! )

Its very clear now that where ever there is OIL, US/UK will poke its nose in it. SUadan... LIbya etc etc. So its no doubt that all the BS regarding Nuclear Weapons is just the excuse to put up a puppet govt. so as to easily control the Oil.
 
Back
Top Bottom