Under what circumstances should a public figure apologise for expressing a sincerely

Mise

isle of lucy
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...held belief?

A few examples, for the purposes of discussion, of 'sincerely held beliefs' (google if you're unaware of the incidents):
Rush Limbaugh's "slut" remarks
Gordon Brown's calling an old Northern lady a "bigoted woman" during the election campaign
Mel Gibson's "[expletive] jews", and related anti-Semitic rants
Sepp Blatter's "there is no racism" and that victims of racism should simply shake hands with the racist guy and everything will be fine

Examples I'm not talking about:
<Insert Comedian Here> "<insert racist joke here>"
<Insert Celebrity Here> "<insert inappropriate party theme here>"
<Insert Politician Here> "<insert gaffe here>"

What I'm talking about isn't gaffes or jokes, whether malign or innocently intended. I'm talking about sincerely held beliefs about a subject. Now you could say that Gordon Brown was just flustered, tired or frustrated when he called that woman bigoted, and it was just said in the heat of the moment (we've all been there), but for now, let's assume that he genuinely believed that she was bigoted. Afterall, she was saying things that I, personally, believe are the hallmarks of a bigoted woman. Similarly, you could (less convincingly) argue that Limbaugh's comments were made in order to get attention, raise his profile, or "satirise" the debate (whatever that means). But let's assume that Limbaugh was, in fact, expressing a sincerely held belief (and one that frankly a lot of people might agree with).

Should any politician, journalist, or public figure apologise for expressing what he truly believes?

Pre-emptive warning: I'm not talking about freedom of speech, so for the love of god, don't bring that up. For the avoidance of doubt, freedom of speech is a guarantee that the state will not prevent people from expressing their opinions. It doesn't mean that the press or the public can't browbeat public figures into retracting statements, or whatever. So simply saying that public figures have the right to express their beliefs doesn't mean that they shouldn't apologise for whether or how they choose to express them.

For me, a public figure should apologise when their opinion actually changes. So if Brown really does -- and still does -- believe that Gillian Whatshername was a bigoted woman, then he shouldn't apologise for that. He should defend his beliefs, instead. Of course, politically, the apology was necessary, and it's not worth picking a fight over during election time, when everyone's minds are concentrated on the recession and whatnot. But more generally, a public figure should defend their sincerely held beliefs, instead of pretending to not hold them and issuing a phony "non-apology apology". If his beliefs have truly changed, then of course an apology is necessary -- necessary not for the public's benefit, but because a sincere change in belief would necessarily compel him to apologise. And the apology would be sincere, too.

Now, there are probably some people who think that people should apologise for expressing their views insensitively. That is, Rush Limbaugh could have expressed his belief that the woman was a slut in a less insensitive way. He didn't need to call her a slut in order to get his point across. He could have said that she was spending more on contraception than is reasonable and fair, and so the government shouldn't subsidise her excesses; the government should subsidise her only to the point that it is reasonable and fair to subsidise her, and he doesn't believe that $3k over 3 years is a reasonable and fair level of subsidy. But that skirts around the issue. He does, for whatever reason, believe that she is a slut. It may have been inappropriate, insensitive, and unproductive to call her a slut, but he nonetheless believes that she is a slut. Calling her a slut is clearly a stupid thing, not just for his own ad revenues, but also for the wider cause that he is trying to advance. But that doesn't mean that he should apologise to the woman for calling her a slut: that means he should apologise to his employer, for lost ad revenues, and to other, more productive advocates of his cause.

But perhaps Limbaugh should apologise for the hurt caused in expressing his beliefs? If I said to someone whose father just died, "your dad was a dick", that would clearly warrant an apology. But it warrants an apology of the "non-apology apology" variety -- the kind that we all supposedly hate. It warrants an apology for the hurt caused, but not for the statement itself. It says, "I'm sorry that what I said hurt you" (or "I apologise", rather than "I'm sorry"). "But I still believe that what I said was true." Or, to put it in a more doubletalky way:

"Nobody is sorrier than me that the police officer had to spend his valuable time writing out a parking ticket on my car. Though from my personal standpoint I know for a certainty that the meter had not yet expired, please accept my expression of deep regret at this unfortunate incident." --Bruce McCall in NYT / wiki article I linked earlier.

Here, he apologises for the police officer's suffering, but does not apologise or accept responsibility for his actions. Why? Because he is sorry for the policemen's suffering, but still believes that what he did was correct! That, to me, is a more sincere, and more honest apology than an apology that says "I'm sorry for parking in a no parking zone". Because he would be lying if he said that. So if Rush Limbaugh issued a "real" apology -- i.e. said the words that everyone wanted to hear -- it wouldn't be the right thing to do. The apology he actually gave (you know, that doubletalky apology that actually continued to slag the woman off in the end) was an honest, sincere apology.

So as reprehensible as I find Rush Limbaugh's statements to be, his apology was the right kind of apology to be made, given his true beliefs. But it was completely useless. People easily "saw through" the apology, realising correctly that Limbaugh's apology wasn't the kind of apology that indicated a change in belief, but rather an apology that merely acknowledges that hurt and offense was brought to the recipient. And the advertisers are still pulling out, so from a "pragmatic apology" standpoint, it was still useless. So if it's useless, why demand an apology? Why even talk about apologies? As I said, if a change in belief has genuinely occurred, then an apology is a natural consequence of that sincere change in belief. So if the apology is sincere then the demand is unnecessary; if you have to force someone to apologise, then it's not going to be sincere.

That's what I think, anyway.
 
Apologies should be given only when sincerely felt: people has the right to stand for their belief.

one of the many examples posted
Sepp Blatter's "there is no racism" and that victims of racism should simply shake hands with the racist guy and everything will be fine
If he really believe in what he said, he should not be forced to apologise for it.
He should stand for what he thinks right and explain his point of view to those who complain.
If and only if he change his mind he should then apologise.
Until then he has right to his opinion and right to defend them... as well as other people have the right to object and criticise such point of view.

Anything else is just hypocrisy.



But perhaps Limbaugh should apologise for the hurt caused in expressing his beliefs? If I said to someone whose father just died, "your dad was a dick", that would clearly warrant an apology.
In my view this is quite bordeline...
Imagine you are talking with Kim Jong-un and you say "your father, Kim Jong-il, was a dick" ("dick" as shorthand for "a ruthless dictator and the world is better without him")

Our dear Kim Jong-un will feel hurt in his feelings of love for his father, but that doesn't change that one really believes it and the statement is actually true.
(ok this example is a bit extreme but you can imagine criticising the memory of a dead rapist: should you really apologise to his children or friends for your harsh words?)
 
People should never be forced to apologize for their opinions or believes. Everybody has the right to have these.

However their is something like common courtesy and even though your opinion might differ from someone elses you have to keep to that. If you call someone a slut, or something along those lines, you should apologize for that. Whether or not someone should be forced to apologize is debatable.
 
Taking that Gordon Brown incident, I don't think the outrage to him calling her a bigoted woman was justified. I think a double standard was being applied to Brown because for some reason, the public placed high standards on the acceptable actions of the Prime Minister and lower standards for everyone else.
I remember watching the Have I Got News For You episode the week the story hit the news and the comedians (although throwing it for a laugh) sincerely believed and insulted that woman, calling her a bigot as well.
For some reason, the Prime Minister can't say what anyone else is allowed to say. I mean, Stephen Fry (relatively) got away with the statement "...only in the year 2000 that the last pope, the Pole..."
That was obviously an insult and yet nobody made a fuss.
 
If their advertisers start withdrawing their money, of course.
 
I don't think many of these apologies are actually at all sincere. Rather they are just an attempt at mitigating the damage the people have done to themselves by running their mouths.
 
Wow, that was a long post to say something rather obvious. Obvious for me, at least...
 
It doesn't seem obvious when you look at the fuss that occurred after the 4 examples I mentioned. I don't remember if Mel Gibson actually apologised, but after the browbeating they got in the media, the other 3 certainly did. It seemed like just about everyone wanted those people to apologise for their remarks, even though they were sincerely held. So it doesn't seem like many people think the way we do.

Hell, the thread in OT right now about Limbaugh has someone on every other page saying how insincere his apology was. First of all, duh, second of all, why should he apologise at all?

Maybe it is obvious; maybe when pressed, people will say that one should not apologise for expressing a sincerely held belief. So why, then, do so many people demand apologies from public figures when they say things that people don't like? Why do people get upset when those apologies naturally fall short of their expectations? Why do people have such expectations, if all of what I said is obvious? Either there's a cognitive dissonance that I'm highlighting, or most people don't really think about this stuff at all.
 
The point isn't them apologsing for their beliefs, but for the way they were expressed and for just being rude.

I expect people to respect others and act with civility. You simply shouldn't go around calling random people sluts and prostitutes. I acknowledge that everyone fails at giving respect for pothers at times. When it happens is when you should apologize, or at least just shut up. Not spend two days repeating yourself and then try to justify your statements.
 
Here's what I've learned about apologies. It's not an apology if you use it as an opportunity to justify your action or suggest, however obliquely, that the offended party has no right to feel insulted. Hint: opening with "I'm sorry if..." means that whatever follows is probably not a genuine apology.

It's better for all concerned if apologies are sincere, but the reason they exist is to restore some degree of social harmony. They're an expression of our awareness that our words or actions have caused harm and we'll try to do better in the future. In that light, an apology that seems sincere is just as good as one that actually is.

I, for one, don't care one whit whether Rush actually believes Sarah Fluke is a slut or whether he was ineptly engaging in hyperbole. Nobody can change Rush's mind, probably not even Rush himself. The fact is, he said something hurtful and offensive and the ethical thing to do was to make amends. His statement was about 80% self-justification and so it's not surprising it fell short in most people's minds.
 
The point isn't them apologsing for their beliefs, but for the way they were expressed and for just being rude.

I expect people to respect others and act with civility. You simply shouldn't go around calling random people sluts and prostitutes.
Right, yeah, I mentioned that too. When Limbaugh apologised for the words that he used, that was exactly the right kind of apology that he should have issued. He was apologising for using certain words, which were incivil and disrespectful, but not for the underlying belief that motivated him to use those words. Everyone should accept that this apology was perfectly acceptable, and move on.

But they didn't, did they...

As I said, apologising for the hurt caused or the words used is a non-apology apology. They are generally considered to be insincere and inadequate apologies, even though, as you say, the apology is perfectly adequate for this particular purpose. And, judging from a long line of famous apologies, non-apology apologies often end up causing more damage than saying nothing at all.

If what you were saying was true (or rather, if more people actually believed that what you were saying was true), then there would be no more fuss over Limbaugh's non-apology apology. There would be no more fuss over most phony apologies issued over the years by public figures. Indeed, we wouldn't even consider them phony apologies at all - we'd consider them to be the most sincere kind of apology! Afterall, they are apologising for the hurt caused by the words used, and not for the belief that motivated them. We both agree that that's a sincere and honest stance to take.

Yet there is such fuss over phony apologies...
 
Right, yeah, I mentioned that too. When Limbaugh apologised for the words that he used, that was exactly the right kind of apology that he should have issued. He was apologising for using certain words, which were incivil and disrespectful, but not for the underlying belief that motivated him to use those words. Everyone should accept that this apology was perfectly acceptable, and move on.
There are two major problems with his apology:
1) Timing: repeating the comments for two days and only apologizing after advertisers start pulling out indicates he is insincere even apologizing for that.
2) The majority of his apology was justification for what he said, not an apology. And he continued to misrepresent Ms Fluke's testimon in the apology.
 
The circumstances are when the person wants to negate any negative reaction and consequences (or as conservatives mislabel as stifling free speech) to his or hers speech
 
There are two major problems with his apology:
1) Timing: repeating the comments for two days and only apologizing after advertisers start pulling out indicates he is insincere even apologizing for that.
So what? It could have taken him that long to realise that an apology was necessary. In any case, I still don't see why the timing is relevant to the apology itself: he said he was sorry for using those words, which is exactly the apology required. So what if it took him a long time to say it?
2) The majority of his apology was justification for what he said, not an apology. And he continued to misrepresent Ms Fluke's testimon in the apology.
Yes, exactly - he said, "I'm sorry for offending and hurting you, but I stand by my underlying beliefs." As you said, that's exactly the kind of apology that is warranted.

In any case, the required apology -- "I'm sorry for using those words, but I'm not sorry for my sincerely held beliefs" -- has never, ever been deemed "enough" or "acceptable" by anyone, ever. If you can point to an example of a public figure saying, say, racist, sexist or homophobic things, apologising in that way, and then the public suddenly saying, "oh, well, apology accepted", then please do... Because I've never someone say, "I'm sorry I said that [expletive] Jews are the cause of all the world's problems, but I'm not sorry for my anti-Semitic beliefs," and then suddenly have that apology accepted by the public...
 
When the expression of those sincere beliefs cause harm to people you sincerely did not intend to harm (morally, psychologically, financially, socially, physically); or people whom you regret harming.

It can be a purely mercantile regret - "I sincerely did not intend to cause harm to my announcers with my words choice". It can be more humane - "I didn't stop to think how his family would feel about me celebrating this person's death on the air. I apologize for my insensitivity".

But at the end of the day, when you cause harm to someone and either didn't intend to, or intended to, but have since changed your mind, you owe them an apology.
 
I thought that Gordon Brown should have refused to apologise about that woman.
Fact is he was set up by the Murdoch press and is entitled to his private view.

I also think that Kevin Livingstone was correct not to apologise for comparing
a harassing journalist with a concentration camp guard.
 
Public figures will apologize anytime not doing so might cost them money. Limbaugh's commercial sponsors, Brown's political backers, potential employers of Tracy Morgan, etc, all play a huge role.
 
I thought that Gordon Brown should have refused to apologise about that woman.
Fact is he was set up by the Murdoch press and is entitled to his private view.

I also think that Kevin Livingstone was correct not to apologise for comparing
a harassing journalist with a concentration camp guard.

Given the journalist worked for a paper whose chief claim to fame was being nazi apologists and that the journalist used the phrase that he was only obeying orders, yes. Those are fairly significant disclaimers though.
 
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