US sending troops to Uganda

[Formaldehyde]

I don't think propped up is the right term. It implies that the current Ugandan government would likely fall if it wasn't for US intervention which I haven't seen any evidence for. I will admit there is some moral ambiguity about helping them but it may end up saving the lives of Ugandans, assuming that the presence of 100 US troops will make a big difference, and I have no idea if that's the case.

What I was suggesting is that the current Uganda government should fail, and that it might very well do so if it didn't ostensibly need the aid of 100 US toops to be able to finally control a renegade group of supposedly 500-9,000 members.

After all, Uganda is a country of 32 million people. The so-called single-party "presidents" have been operating under what is essentially martial law since they deposed Idi Amin Dada in 1979. The Ugandan army consists or 40-45,000 soldiers and are well-known for their own abuses, including using 13-year-old children as soldiers.

The US also used to train them until 2000 when they invaded the Democratic Republic of the Congo after learning more advanced military tactics from us.

So once again, we are supposedly helping a brutal backward homophobic country to really continue to suppress their own people under the guise that they need help dealing with a tiny band of terrorists.

Uganda continues to experience difficulty in advancing respect for human rights in matters concerning torture, child labor, and liberties. There are as many as thirteen 'security' organizations of the Museveni government, some directly answerable to the President and not constitutionally based and established by Act of Parliament. These organisations persecute opponents of the government, carry out abductions, disappearances, extrajudicial killings and torture and act both independently, interdependently with each other, and in cooperation with the Ugandan Police.

These organisations also harass the free media and official parliamentary opposition.

Ugandan security agencies have been implicated in torture and illegal detention of suspects, including suspected LRA rebels and their sympathisers. Methods of torture include suspending suspects tied 'kandoya' (tying hands and feet behind the victim) from the ceiling, severe beating and kicking, and attaching electric wires to the male genitals.

On 14 June [2003] [Violent Crime Crack Unit Green] officers arrested Nsangi Murisidi, aged 29, on suspicion that he had facilitated friends to commit robbery and for alleged possession of a gun. Relatives tried in vain to visit him in detention. On 18 June the lawyer representing the family received confirmation of his death in custody while at the VCCU headquarters at Kireka, a suburb of Kampala. The death certificate established the cause of death as extensive loss of fluid and blood, severe bleeding in the brain and extensive deep burns on the buttocks. The body also bore 14 deep wounds. In October the Minister of Internal Affairs informed AI that an inquiry had been ordered, but no progress was subsequently reported. Source: Amnesty International Annual Report 2004.

Government agencies accused of torture include the UPDF's Chieftancy of Military
Intelligence (CMI), the Internal Security Organisation (ISO), the Violent Crime Crack Unit (VCCU) and ad hoc agencies such as the Joint Anti-Terrorist Task Force (JATF.) In October the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC), which only receives complaints for a small fraction of actual human rights violations, found that torture continued to be a widespread practice amongst security organizations in Uganda.

 

[NovaKart]

The LRA is a tiny group of terrorists but the Ugandan government might fall if not for a mere 100 US soldiers?

 

[kochman]

The LRA is a tiny group of terrorists but the Ugandan government might fall if not for a mere 100 US soldiers?

Well, honestly, 100 US Soldiers could defeat a much larger, ragtag militia in the heart of Africa anyday.
Chances are, many of those soldiers are Special Forces, with the mission of training the local government's troops to fight like professional soldiers instead of a ragtag milita... as well as provide superior logistical support...
A very costly affair.

 

[NovaKart]

That's a good point I suppose but the US forces are supposed to provide assistance but not actually engage the LRA except for self-defense.

If they do actualy exchange fire with the LRA they'll probably have to get used to shooting little kids who could perhaps try and pass for innocent village children until they throw a greande or something.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The LRA is a tiny group of terrorists but the Ugandan government might fall if not for a mere 100 US soldiers?

The Ugandan government might very well fall if they are so inept and incompetent that they can't deal with a tiny group of terrorsts, much less have help to train their military to continue to oppress their own people as a direct result.

I think it is time we add an amendment to the Constitution prohibiting the US from aiding any government which engages in torture of its own people and is so incredibly backward to have so many egregious human rights violations.

 

[NovaKart]

I think it can be pretty difficult to entirely stamp out a terrorist group. If the LRA has only 500-1000 soldiers then I don't think they're much of a threat to the government but more of a threat to the population. I don't have much time at the moment but from the little I've read about them, they don't even seem to have a political ideology or a goal of overthrowing the Ugandan government. If the US doesn't help out it's probably the people who will suffer and not the government. That said, I'm a bit skeptical that the US will even be of much help but who knows, maybe they will. I wouldn't expect them to solve the situation though.

 

[kochman]

That's a good point I suppose but the US forces are supposed to provide assistance but not actually engage the LRA except for self-defense.

That's exactly what the SF does... and it "doesn't engage except for self-defense", meaning any skirmish in the jungle they happen to be around for!!!

 

[NovaKart]

In that case I wouldn't really expect them to "defeat" anyone, I mean if their goal is to train local troops and not to defeat the LRA Rambo style.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I think it can be pretty difficult to entirely stamp out a terrorist group. If the LRA has only 500-1000 soldiers then I don't think they're much of a threat to the government but more of a threat to the population. I don't have much time at the moment but from the little I've read about them, they don't even seem to have a political ideology or a goal of overthrowing the Ugandan government. If the US doesn't help out it's probably the people who will suffer and not the government. That said, I'm a bit skeptical that the US will even be of much help but who knows, maybe they will. I wouldn't expect them to solve the situation though.

It isn't that difficult at all if the country actually wishes to do so, especially one that is so tiny.

HJow incompetent are they that they cannot protect their own citizens after over a decade of supposedly trying? They can manage to send troops to Somalia and invade a sovereign country, but they can't even stop children from being kidnapped on a regular basis?

 

[Ajidica]

HJow incompetent are they that they cannot protect their own citizens after over a decade of supposedly trying?

Probably very incompetant. Many third world governments have essentialy no direct control over any area outside the capital. Any control they do have in other areas is generaly gained from deals made with local people of power.

 

[NovaKart]

They may be incompetent but it's assuming a lot to say they would collapse without outside assistance, especially if the current government has been in power since 1979. There are plenty of better governments that have had trouble with terrorists lasting more than a decade.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You seem to keep insinuating that I think this tiny group of terrorists is going to overthrow the government itself, when I actually have no such opinion. However, the gross incompetence displayed by the government may very well cause sufficient numbers of people in Uganda to decide their government is obviously incapable of ruling their country and should be finally removed from power.

 

[NovaKart]

Yeah and the members of Hanson may all decide to finally get sex change operations but I wouldn't just assume that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I don't think it is much of an assumption given how anybody who tries to oppose the current "president" ends up being arrested, and how freedom of the press is being so trampled. From the Wiki article whose URL is above:

Political freedom

In April 2005, two opposition Member of Parliament were arrested on what are believed to be politically motivated charges.[2] Ronald Reagan Okumu and Michael Nyeko Ocula are from the Forum for Democratic Change, the movement believed to pose the greatest threat to the reelection of President Yoweri Museveni in 2006.

Freedom of the press

As in many African countries, government agencies continue to impinge on the freedom of the press in Uganda.

In late 2002, the independent Monitor newspaper was temporarily closed by the army and police. Journalists from the paper continued to come under attack in 2004, two of whom were publicly denounced as "rebel collaborators" by a spokesman for the UPDF.

In February 2004, the Supreme Court ruled the offence of "publication of false news" to be void and unconstitutional.[3]

Uganda's press is rated as 'partly free' by Freedom House, an independent monitor of press freedom worldwide.[5] In 2005, Uganda was rated as the 13th most free press of 48 countries in Sub-Saharan Africa[4] In 2010, Uganda was rated the 15th most free press of 48 countries. [6]

It is just another case of the US government propping up yet another corrupt and incompetent government which has an atrocious human rights record.

HRW: Uganda World Report 2005.

The war in northern Uganda, which started when President Yoweri Museveni and the National Resistance Movement/Army took power eighteen years ago in 1986, continued in 2004. Violence and related human rights abuses abated somewhat by mid-year yet predictions of an imminent military solution to the conflict proved unfounded. The war pits the northern Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) against the government's Ugandan Peoples' Defence Forces (UPDF) and the people of the three northern districts where the Acholi live and the war has expanded to parts of eastern Uganda in 2003-04. In February, the LRA committed the worst massacre of the entire conflict in an eastern district by attacking Barlonyo internally displaced persons camp, defended only by a small local defence unit, and killing more than 330 people. The LRA continues in its practice of abducting children, who remain the main victims of this war. President Museveni did, however, take an unprecedented step in referring the case of Ugandas LRA to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in December 2003. The ICC agreed to undertake an investigation but peace activists in Uganda remain wary that Museveni will manipulate this international institution to punish his foes, and thereby diminish chances for a negotiated settlement, while avoiding investigation of the Ugandan armys abuses.

Ugandan security agencies have proliferated and are implicated in torture and illegal detention of suspected rebels and their sympathizers. The Ugandan government continued to support armed groups in the conflict in the Ituri region of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), despite officially withdrawing from eastern DRC in accordance with the Luanda accords signed in September 2002.

The War in Northern Uganda

The LRA persisted in its policy of abducting northern Ugandan children to use as soldiers and forced sexual partners for its forces in 2004. This has brought the number of abducted children to a new high. More than 20,000 children have been seized by the LRA over the course of the war. In total, more than 1,300,000 civilians are currently forced to live in government-controlled displaced camps.

In 2004, the LRA continued with renewed severity its attacks on civilians living in displaced persons and Sudanese refugee camps and others it considered to be collaborating with the UPDF. An LRA raid on Barlonyo camp near Lira in eastern Uganda resulted in up to 337 deaths. This attack was followed by a protest demonstration of more than 10,000 people, angry at the lack of government protection in the camps. Many questioned the willingness and effectiveness of the UPDF to protect civilians against the LRA, claiming that it is often absent or too late to respond when the LRA strikes. President Museveni, in a rare move, apologized for UPDFs failure to stop the massacre. The LRA continued in its offensive through the year, killing civilians, abducting children, destroying and looting property and taking captives to porter the loot in a number of other raids on internally displaced persons camps. Cases of LRA mutilation of suspected spies, including cutting off lips and limbs, were reported.

The UPDF has also committed abuses in the north, including arbitrary detention, torture, rape, and stealing. A few civilians have pending civil actions for damages on account of this ill treatment; the UPDF soldiers are rarely criminally prosecuted for abuse of civilians. Furthermore, the failure to protect civilians in the north has been persistent. The Human Rights Committee, a body that monitors state compliance with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, noted in its concluding observations on Uganda the failure of the state to ensure the right to liberty and security of persons affected by the armed conflict in northern Uganda.

President Museveni referred the war in northern Uganda, particularly the LRAs role in it, to the ICC in December 2003. This was the first time a state has made such a referral. The ICC prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, since launched an investigation but it is not clear that the serious crimes committed by the government will also be investigated.

The Conflict in DRC

Despite the official withdrawal in May 2003 of Ugandan troops, Uganda continues to provide support to armed groups in Eastern DRC, particularly in the Ituri region, which they partially occupied from 1998 to 2003, and where the UPDF committed war crimes and other violations of international humanitarian law. Continued support for proxies in DRC has been in part to ensure allies in Uganda's strategic border region, but also to ensure continued control over the lucrative trade in natural resources from the DRC, particularly gold. A report in mid 2004 by a U.N. arms monitoring panel documented Ugandan complicity in arms trading across the border, and Ugandan forces intervened on at least one occassion to ensure their allies in Ituri remained in control. In August and September 2004 local sources reported further assistance by Ugandan troops to General Jrme Kakwavu, leader of an Ituri based armed group responsible for the torture and killing of civilians. In a move to deflect Uganda's role in supporting such groups, President Museveni wrote secretly in August 2004 to the U.N. Secretary General requesting provisional immunity from prosecution for armed group leaders operating in Ituri, and the suspension of investigations by the International Criminal Court (ICC) in DRC but not in Uganda.

HIV/AIDS

Uganda continues to face a generalized epidemic of HIV/AIDS despite being widely acknowledged as a regional success story in combating the epidemic. In 2004, senior government officials, including President Museveni, made numerous comments undermining the effectiveness of condoms as a strategy to prevent sexual HIV transmission. These comments were apparently linked to the prospect of significant foreign aid from the United States for programs that emphasize "abstinence only" as an HIV prevention strategy. Abstinence only programs have been shown to censor critical and lifesaving information about condoms and HIV prevention, in violation of the human right to information and the highest attainable standard of health.

Key International Actors

The humanitarian situation in northern Uganda remained dire in 2004, with 80 percent of the entire northern population in displaced persons' camps. Security remains very poor for relief agencies as well as for the population itself, and in several areas the UPDF refuses to escort relief convoys to camps on account of danger.

A group of international donors meets regularly with the Ugandan government and negotiates budget items, including defense spending, with it. These donors provide one-half of the budget of the Ugandan government, their funds going directly to the treasury once the budget has been agreed.

The U.S. government is not part of this donors' group, and has provided military assistance and training to the UPDF to enable it to protect civilians in northern Uganda as well as become an effective counterinsurgency forcean approach the donors group does not endorse. No special human rights conditions are attached to this U.S. military assistance. This aid has facilitated the pursuit of a purely military solution to the conflict in the north, an approach Museveni has long endorsed that has been widely criticized by civil society in the north.

Little has changed in 6 additional years when many Ugandans were already upset at the lack of support from their own government despite "military training" by the GWB administration.

 

[NovaKart]

None of this suggests that the Ugandan government is in danger of collapsing. I would agree that the Ugandan government seems like scum but I don't think the presence of 100 special forces to train troops to fight the LRA constitutes propping up their government. I also seriously doubt that Christianity has anything to do with it, America has certainly shared a bed with Islamic radicals when that was in its interest.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You are probably right in the sense that the Ugandan government doesn't really appear to care at all what happens to the different tribes to the north and the predominately Muslim region to the east. You might even say they are intentionally not doing anything to resolve the problems.

As long as they can continue to oppress and jail any political power in the South, they will likely stay in power, despite already having "military training" to supposedly help deal with exactly the same problem during the Bush years.

I just wonder how they got the notion of abstinence-only education during a massive AIDS epidemic. Is it a coincidence it is also a policy of the Republican Party and the GWB administration? Or were they encouraged to pursue it to get that "military training", which seems to be of far more use in the Congo?

 

[NovaKart]

Are you suggesting that there's a link between abstinence only education supposedly financed by certain American groups and Obama's decision to send special forces there?

 

[kochman]

Are you suggesting that there's a link between abstinence only education supposedly financed by certain American groups and Obama's decision to send special forces there?

Novakart, you are forgetting... GW Bush was satan, and Obama can't undo all of satan's work overnight!
It's all Bush's fault... ALL.

 

[kochman]

Spoiler :

You are probably right in the sense that the Ugandan government doesn't really appear to care at all what happens to the different tribes to the north and the predominately Muslim region to the east. You might even say they are intentionally not doing anything to resolve the problems.

As long as they can continue to oppress and jail any political power in the South, they will likely stay in power, despite already having "military training" to supposedly help deal with exactly the same problem during the Bush years.

I just wonder how they got the notion of abstinence-only education during a massive AIDS epidemic. Is it a coincidence it is also a policy of the Republican Party and the GWB administration? Or were they encouraged to pursue it to get that "military training", which seems to be of far more use in the Congo?

Wow... that's what we call outing a conspiracy!
Can you provide some links or even a coherent line of logic which enabled the uncovering of this dastardly scandal?

 

[Silurian]

Obama had a meeting with some victims of the LRA before he became president