v 26, and above ALL Bugs/Crashes reporting thread

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I thought I just posted a fix for that on the SVN. I'll check again. Python errors are written to PythonErr.log the other one is next to useless for finding the problem.

-This one is that I'm selling off the buildings and such from a size 11 capital in a place I'm going to use as a hunting ground. Taking the city is no issue. Keeping the city around has worked for the other three capitals I collected. The bug is that upon abandoning the city I got a settler. Clicking on the settler unit (not hovering over it) instant crashes the game.

If the city is large enough you will get a settler or more from it when you abandon it. I can abandon a city and get a settler but can't repeat the crash. Clicking on te settler works fine for me.

 

[Koshling]

I have no idea what is going on in my game but its not building cities at all? Top left was Tupi, i conquered them first, only had three units (1 was tribal Guardian), top left was Italy, same thing, but at least had one Atl-atl, and now i just discover the Portuguese and only 2 cities after 623 turns also? and really not that much of an army either or expanding??

I haven't looked at the rest, because i dont look at any of the displays when playing. (I like being surprised.)

http://www.gamefront.com/files/22533094/logs+saved+game.zip

This download link is not working for me (error 502 bad gateway)

 

[Stormwind]

Rev 4074:

2 different python errors.

This came first:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "autologEventManager", line 327, in onLoadGame
File "autologEventManager", line 1474, in storeStuff
IndexError: list assignment index out of range

After that, this one every turn:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "autologEventManager", line 354, in onEndGameTurn
File "autologEventManager", line 1543, in checkStuff
IndexError: list index out of range

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Rev 4074:

2 different python errors.

This came first:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "autologEventManager", line 327, in onLoadGame
File "autologEventManager", line 1474, in storeStuff
IndexError: list assignment index out of range

After that, this one every turn:

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "autologEventManager", line 354, in onEndGameTurn
File "autologEventManager", line 1543, in checkStuff
IndexError: list index out of range

Yes, that is my fault. I am testing a fix now.

 

[chmoosi]

Leaders now have 3 traits and All have been changed. See the thread Leader Traits by Sgtslick.

JosEPh

I was not talking about traits. The amount of beakers and espionage is DOUBLE the amount my first and only city is producing. Tried a non scientific leader -- 20 bpt from the second turn (city produces only 10). So, is this a new feature not related to traits or something else?

 

[JosEPh_II]

If an AI has a leader with these traits they will expand, somewhat slowly but they will grow:
Expansive, Humanitarian, Seafaring, Semi-Civilized, and Barbarian.

If the AI Leader has these traits it will Not expand usually until into the Classical Era:
Idealistic, Populist, and Excessive.

What do these traits have in common? They all deal with Health either + or -. And since the amount of at game start is imho excessive and iirc scales with difficulty level then you have AI that will grow and others that will sit in their Capital city for Ages just researching.

This is a serious problem and may require several things done to correct it (always assuming of course that Koshling doesn't find a piece of bad code for AI grow at game start).

1. Reduce the amount of at game start. Also remove excess from early food builds.
2. Remove all (-1 Health) from all leader Traits.
3. Once an AI researches Tribalism that the AI be made to build a new Tribe asap and be made to send it out and establish that all important 2nd City.
4. Also do a similar process at Sed Life to All AI for the Next Important city #3. If All the AI would have at least 3 cities right after they research Sed Life the Gameplay will be better.

Otherwise the discussed problem of Steam Rolling is only made worse. And even the Barbarians are better City builders than +50% of the AI.

Used to be that if you had a good sized Map and a reasonable number of AI that all would have a chance to develop and be somewhat of an adversary and rival in the game. But with the continued emphasis on slowing city growth at game start we now have the exact opposite, AI stagnation.

If v27 is released in this state it will not be good.

@Koshling, BBAI logs attached to go with savegame in previous post.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We do need to reduce the unhealthiness from terrain features a bit to counter what has been moved into the Diseases and Pests buildings. This wont be available for v27 though.

 

[JosEPh_II]

That would help but I do not think it will be enough.

One of the root causes is excess to overcome at the start. The second is the AI's failure to send out a Tribe after Tribalism to found that 2nd city. And again failure to send out a settler after Sed Life is reached.

I'm consistently having, in my last 3 new games, AI that sit in 1 City until Classical Era. The cities will range from 7 pop to 22 pop by then. They may even have a settler sitting in the city. But having 10 AI and only those Leaders that have 5 particular traits expand and the rest stagnate to the point where 50% or more of the AI is just 1 city Empires, something or things is/are seriously out of whack.

JosEPh

Edit: Koshling has found an AI problem for the stagnating AI.

 

[Nimek]

But true is that liders with big bonus from traits expand very quickly comparing to others because their cities grow faster in early game

 

[Thunderbrd]

Since our game is multi-player, I don't expect it'd be too useful to upload any saves that display these things but...
Further observations on the invisibility violation issue:

1. I had a rogue next to an enemy city attacked. THAT civilization I've never seen maintain a dog, thief, rogue or ambusher unit ever. (This seems to be an AI weakness too considering that they should well be aware they have trouble with invisible units attacking them whenever they repeatedly attempt to send out their hunters.)
2. A war elephant moved onto my wife's Rogue in neutral territory so its not a completely invalid mechanism there. Interestingly, a dog unit from that civ was right next to her but moved out of visible range just before then moving the elephant onto her unit. Had it meant to attack her unit but once it actually attempted to found the unit was no longer visible? Was it trying to move the elephant there but didn't WANT a fight so moved the dog out of visible range so it could move in overlapping without an attack? Or was it just that once the dog moved, the elephant acted on only what it could see and continued as if the Rogue had been taken care of somehow?
3. Seems like we can reliably get units to attack our rogues and ambushers in any enemy territory, as if being in their territory alone is enough to give them visibility, yet they do not always choose to attack even if they can which could be a matter of odds calculations. However, we can still move into their cities without attacking the units there.

All very confusing stuff.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Sorry, I meant to answer these but like Hydro I have a cold and forgot.

-A second one was that I had a folk dance avaiable for research... so I decided to use a great prophet auto research it. However Tengrism was its current topic for autoresearch. So I bypassed it (14 turns rather than 30+) with the autresearch once it become avaiable. I was allowed to do this... but it only worked after I research Tengrism. This is silly. Perhaps the religions should be built projects that found the religion as its only effect instead of time wasting research.

This is a bug with the tech bulbing code that should be looked into.

Mosty, I was thinking that researching religion didn't automatically spawn the religion in one of your cities... as far as I can tell that was because of a freak acccident where me and an AI finished researching Shaminism on the exact same turn. I lost the coin flip apparently.

That is what Divine Prophets are for but in the case you mentioned the AI would get a free great prophet because it got the tech first and you would still get nothing.

-Killing a random animal in official barbarian territory grants no resources or subdue chance.

Known bug that I haven't been able to solve yet.

... in official barbarian territory ...Giant Squid can move freely along shores and then anihilate units... which is a major pointless road block early on.

This is because the territory is barbarian as is the squid. Any sea unit can move on any water plot in its cultural territory. If we changed this it would affect work boats and ships as well.

-I'm having issues were any automatic worker after researching 'slash and burn' torches anything it can. To the point of burning lumberjacks and forests on mines... which means my improvement are losing bonuses to the workers. This is insane. The Fort building religion is replaced by malignant pyromania... or preceded by it as I'm playing eternity and haven't got math quite yet.

I turn on the option for auto workers to leave forests. They leave jungles and long grass also, with this option on. I usually turn the option off in the late modern era when the workers can upgrade forests to tree farms and the like.

However the AI probably needs to be looked at since work was done to stop it chopping it all down and it should be using the same logic for burning, I would have thought.

On a side note... when the prehistoric era AI adds military units to the que... is it adding them to the front or back of the que? I saw earlier in the thread that a bunch of units in a row are built at 12%. I think the AI is panicing and adding units to the front of the que and as it never actually finishes them... they don't count towards the avaible forces and once the threat implodes or the que fills they then build the units. Which is pumping up the military forces when it arrives. Which sets off the other AIs.

A save game with BAAI logs would help track down the cause of this sort of problem.

Edit: Patch did nothing to stop the settler from being a game killer... guess burning the city is the only option.

Ah, I am using a later version so it may have been fixed. v27 is due out next weekend I think.

 

[Koshling]

On a side note... when the prehistoric era AI adds military units to the que... is it adding them to the front or back of the que? I saw earlier in the thread that a bunch of units in a row are built at 12%. I think the AI is panicing and adding units to the front of the que and as it never actually finishes them... they don't count towards the avaible forces and once the threat implodes or the que fills they then build the units. Which is pumping up the military forces when it arrives. Which sets off the other AIs.

It adds them to the back except in the case where a high priority unit build is required while the city is building a building, in which case it goes on the front. If you see it queuing units in front of other units it's a bug and I need a reproducible case to debug it.

 

[Necratoid]

No issue with a late response, I actually just checked back again 20 minutes after you posted.

I know the squid thing is barbarian unit in barbarian territory. The problem is that losing a boat (canoon, raft, gally) hundreds of squares away to a giant squid that suddenly blinks into existance is miserable. It could also be solved simply by not allowing an unsubdued giant squid to enter coastal squares. This is almost as frustrating as when Giant Squid random got a megapowerful combat upgrade that means they sudden grow to several times there weight class because I researched a new tech. Having a 9 power suqid suddenly an effective 27, 36, 35, elventy billion power squid is painful. Suddenly I lost my fleet to literal random squid that simply weren't an issue the previous turn... I haven't got that far... Was that madness removed?

I always pay attention to worker AI as I find manditorily micromanaging dozens of them in eternity games frustrating. Doubling turn times to avoid being automatically screwed over by my own men is a level of false difficultly I don't need. However modders are more concerned the AI is using the same stript and suffering the same issues so I report these things.

For the 'front/back thing', as I said, I read through 58 pages of thread before responding so the bunch of swordmen at 12% built thing was someone elses issue. I was simply suggesting that only thing I could think of that made logic sense and would cause that. If it was true, a lot of AI over militarising would make sense as que priorty constantly being over written. I use to refer to this as 'stun locking' AI opponents. It would also explain why in past versions the AI kept randomly building walls of outdated stone age units. If its not the case, currently or in the past, so be it... but it made so much sense I had to mention it.

Your misunderstanding the Shamanism thing. I researched shamanism... it told me shamanism has been founded that turn... it just didn't spawn it in my cities... then I noticed an AI had abruptly converted to shamanism. I thought that the city the second religion you found was random... or that new religions spawned in multiple locations at once. So I stopped researching the optional techs. Then the Tengrism great prophet thing came up and I had it founded in my city anyway. I can't remember a thousand plus turns or so ago if I got a great prophet or not. So only parrallel founding of shamanism makes any sense.

See I go into new versions blind. I skipped a few between plays. I also thank whoever bothered to make that window option in the city screen that tells me how my crime and such is fairing... would have been more useful to know that from a pedia article in game concepts C2C or something. As it is I only know about it from random spotting it in a screne shot I saw reading this thread.

I can still only speculate what that brown lumpy pile icon is listed under the world map square status icons. Preliminary guess is garbage related.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I know the squid thing is barbarian unit in barbarian territory. The problem is that losing a boat (canoon, raft, gally) hundreds of squares away to a giant squid that suddenly blinks into existance is miserable. It could also be solved simply by not allowing an unsubdued giant squid to enter coastal squares. This is almost as frustrating as when Giant Squid random got a megapowerful combat upgrade that means they sudden grow to several times there weight class because I researched a new tech. Having a 9 power suqid suddenly an effective 27, 36, 35, elventy billion power squid is painful. Suddenly I lost my fleet to literal random squid that simply weren't an issue the previous turn... I haven't got that far... Was that madness removed?

The squid is set so that it can't enter coastal waters but cultural boarders over ride this. Just as your ships can't enter ocean unless they are in your cultural border.

Your misunderstanding the Shamanism thing. I researched shamanism... it told me shamanism has been founded that turn... it just didn't spawn it in my cities... then I noticed an AI had abruptly converted to shamanism. I thought that the city the second religion you found was random... or that new religions spawned in multiple locations at once. So I stopped researching the optional techs. Then the Tengrism great prophet thing came up and I had it founded in my city anyway. I can't remember a thousand plus turns or so ago if I got a great prophet or not. So only parrallel founding of shamanism makes any sense.

If you don't have Divine Prophets on then the first to research a tech will found the religion and get the Holy City. Then every leader that has that religion as their favorite religion will get the religion spread to their capital as well. That is what The_J's mod "Real favorite Religion" does. Mostly it helps the AI cope.

See I go into new versions blind. I skipped a few between plays. I also thank whoever bothered to make that window option in the city screen that tells me how my crime and such is fairing... would have been more useful to know that from a pedia article in game concepts C2C or something. As it is I only know about it from random spotting it in a screne shot I saw reading this thread.

I can still only speculate what that brown lumpy pile icon is listed under the world map square status icons. Preliminary guess is garbage related.

Yes someone needs to write a concept page on Crime and another on Pollution before v27 comes out.

On that topic I looked at how we could merge or get rid of RoM and RoM:AND concepts. It is not straight forward. We also need to change some of the normal BtS concept pages and I could not find them at all.

 

[Necratoid]

So basically not getting the shamanism Holy C is inexplicable or something. Weird... I guess he went first in turn order or had 12 less tech points to go or something.

(The following relates to a v26 vanilla game being upgraded with the available patch)

Okay... as for the patch... it made my game unplayable long term. Crime rate was fluctuating wildly like from +14 to -9 in my capital over two turns... Cntl+Aing away obsolete barter posts (which still listed themselves as producing crime dropped the I made each turn as well). I was in the negatives by more and more and there was no source I could find. I think something went terribly wrong with the game conversion calculation from the patch and I think it actually added 110+ crime to each city.

So I'm going to start a new game now. It doesn't help that the riot control promotions appear to have been removed all together and replaced with police promotions. Police promotions that aren't apparently activatable by any tech... or the pedia fails masssively again. I don't know.

Actually... as the Squids are such an issue... I blaiming Cthulu and moving on.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Sorry, I meant to answer these but like Hydro I have a cold and forgot.

Hope you feel better too.

 

[ls612]

@Koshling:

OK, things should start to get interesting in part ten of my continuing BBAI logs. I start a major assault on Carthaginian territories, as I see them as being far too powerful for my good. I think you may be interested in seeing how they hold up under a concentrated and powerful assault from me.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So basically not getting the shamanism Holy C is inexplicable or something. Weird... I guess he went first in turn order or had 12 less tech points to go or something.

Its a matter of turn order that explains that I believe.

 

[Necratoid]

Well started a new game (v26 +1 patch) and I'm going to have wait for the new version to bother again.

After near 300 turns I've seen no animals. The only events I'm getting are random volcanoes... some of which aren't on my contient. The AI at least is getting the false research event.

Maybe it has to do with those invisible caches I keep hearing about and have never found.

 

[God-Emperor]

After near 300 turns I've seen no animals.

Are you using the No Barbarians game option? Animals are barbarians too.

Well, currently every animal spawn entry has bTreatAsBarbarian set to 1, which makes them that way. If these were set to 0 they would not be turned off by that option. At the very least a few of the relatively harmless animals could have this set to 0.