v23 Bugs and Crashes

[Koshling]

Has anyone else noticed the AI not using unconventional warfare in the prehistoric/ancient eras. There used to be AI thieves and rogues running around casuing problems, but in my last few games I haven't seen any. I suspect that the AI isn't building the bandits hideouts anymore, so maybe something to do with the crime AI?

Its nothing to do with crime on units. It stopped using them when the required crime building got nerfed back. The AI no longer considres the builsig itself worthwhile. If it gets the building it builds he units fine. The problem is that it doesn't (adequately) take into account the via-units benefits (because they are signifuicantly unique units) of the building. For now have a play with adding an AIWeight value to the necessary building(s) and it should cause them to be built. This is a very crude solution however, and will likely result in them being built everywhere and damaging the AI economy as a side effect. What is really needed is for the building evaluation code, in the part that evaluates the enabled units, to increase the perceived value of:

1. Invisible units
2. Unit classes enabled that are not enabled in many other cities

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have same effect and 'choose religion' switched off in my game. And what's worse it's already turn 591 on snail, I'm already in ancient era and not one of AI players founded religion. Only religion in that game is buddhism, founded by me. Looks like something is wrong with 'Divine Prophets' option. Cannot attach save bigger than 2Mb, uploaded to http://rghost.net/38247660

On something like this, I wouldn't need the savegame. Just a full description of your religious options and since this includes some AI considerations, some behavior notes. I recently modified a few things in the effort of:
A) making DP compatible with Limited Religions
and
B) improving some of the AI considerations.

Its possible I might've made a goof here or there so I can review but its helpful to have a full rundown of the effects you're noting.
Now keep in mind that on Limited Religions, you will not get free prophets at the techs that give religions since you will only ever have one. As a result of the limitation, the AI will wait until they can grab their favorite, and since they have to BIRTH a Great Prophet, they may never achieve one... this is mostly due to Slaves being a superior pick over a priest on their specialist choices. But then, if you are NOT on Limited Religions, I'm a bit surprised that you or the ai have not had plenty of prophets bonused by the ancient era and used immediately for religions. Have you been first to all techs and not using your prophets for religions?

What gets me is that you have choose religion off and you can select any religion... that's not right. I'll have to take a look at that immediately.

Oy vay... tinker with one thing and the whole thing goes off

 

[azcore]

But then, if you are NOT on Limited Religions, I'm a bit surprised that you or the ai have not had plenty of prophets bonused by the ancient era and used immediately for religions. Have you been first to all techs and not using your prophets for religions?

I was playing without Limited Religions.
I was playing on Immortal and was behind many of AI players in tech race. Then great prophet was born of GP points and I founded buddhism with him. Most of AI on the same continent converted to buddhism eventually but there was no other religions in game.

Then I started test game with Limited Religions option on, run AI Autoplay for about 400 turns and not one of 30 found any religion. So looks like it doens't works in any case, maybe causes are different of course. Then I run yet another AI Autoplay game without Divine Prophets option and AIs founded two religions before turn 300.

What gets me is that you have choose religion off and you can select any religion... that's not right. I'll have to take a look at that immediately.

Oy vay... tinker with one thing and the whole thing goes off

Yes, that would be great to fix as well.

Right now two things that bother me most is inability of AI to found religions and its inability to build crime units. I think I have to abandon that game and start anew when these things eventually will be fixed.

 

[ls612]

<snip>

EDIT EDIT: The New Worker Armed needs some TXT missing stuff?? Also since you have a new Unit_Combat you have to have the PYTHON to go with it!!!!

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "BugEventManager", line 363, in _handleDefaultEvent
File "UnitNameEventManager", line 245, in onUnitBuilt
File "UnitNameEventManager", line 449, in getUnitNameConvFromIniFile
File "BugCore", line 147, in get
File "BugCore", line 118, in _getOption
ConfigError: Option UnitNaming__Combat_COMBAT_WORKER not found in mod UnitNaming


EDIT EDIT EDIT:

I already have a unit combat worker listed, but this way not your way:


self.addTextEdit(screen, columnL, columnR, "UnitNaming__Combat_WORKER")


Now if you want it different you need to let me know, to change in the python ok. Its not always as easy as it seems, as you can see.

1. Whoops, I totally did not think about the unit naming python, I don't mind your solution at all. I know next to no python, so thanks for fixing that.

2. OK, I'll add the missing text for the Armed Workers.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I was playing without Limited Religions.
I was playing on Immortal and was behind many of AI players in tech race. Then great prophet was born of GP points and I founded buddhism with him. Most of AI on the same continent converted to buddhism eventually but there was no other religions in game.

Then I started test game with Limited Religions option on, run AI Autoplay for about 400 turns and not one of 30 found any religion. So looks like it doens't works in any case, maybe causes are different of course. Then I run yet another AI Autoplay game without Divine Prophets option and AIs founded two religions before turn 300.




Yes, that would be great to fix as well.

Right now two things that bother me most is inability of AI to found religions and its inability to build crime units. I think I have to abandon that game and start anew when these things eventually will be fixed.

Alright. I'm sure all of these are EASY fixes. Unfortunately, now that I'm off work, I have some unusual family obligations to attend to so it won't be till late weekend before I can fix things up. Funny... all this seemed to be working fine in playtesting but I must admit I may not have tested well enough to detect some of these issues.

 

[azcore]

Its nothing to do with crime on units. It stopped using them when the required crime building got nerfed back. The AI no longer considres the builsig itself worthwhile. If it gets the building it builds he units fine.

If that is the case I prefer unnerfed buildings unless that was some major problem with them. It seems far more important to me for AI players to use covert operations than to nerf some specific buildings while others are clearly unblanaced(+25% research building comes in mind for example, 'elder council' or something like that).

Please tell me, will there be gameplay problems if I revert only commits that nerfed crime buildings in my local SVN copy?

Or maybe you will even consider to rollback these commits until there is proper solution to inability of AI to use covert operations?

 

[azcore]

By examining python code for RevolutionDCM I found that for Revolution Watch Advisor to work correctly there need to be a file named CustomRevAdv.txt in UserSettings folder of the mod. It is not created automatically. I googled that file, added it and Revolution Watch works fine in my game now. Dear commiters, please add this file to SVN (attached).

Anyone? It is such an easy fix, I really don't understand why not to put that file in SVN.

 

[Koshling]

If that is the case I prefer unnerfed buildings unless that was some major problem with them. It seems far more important to me for AI players to use covert operations than to nerf some specific buildings while others are clearly unblanaced(+25% research building comes in mind for example, 'elder council' or something like that).

Please tell me, will there be gameplay problems if I revert only commits that nerfed crime buildings in my local SVN copy?

Or maybe you will even consider to rollback these commits until there is proper solution to inability of AI to use covert operations?

The old versions were horribly unbalanced in providing massive gold. Basically the issue is that the AI hates crime, and needs a fairly large counter-balance on crime producing buildings for it to build them. Unless we solve the fact that it doesn't evaluate the uniqueness of the units the buildings enable this cannot be addressed without making such buildings inherently unbalanced (because the upside is essentially invisible to the AI right now). MUCH better (as a short-term work-around) to add an AIWeight to the building info for those buildings, than to un-nerf them for humans I think. I suggest you give that a try and see if it solves your issue - you'll probably have to fiddle a bit as it's rather hit-and-miss trying to tune AIWeights (which is why I hate them generally, and prefer to fix underlying evaluation issues longer term). Just start with a very large one (5000 say) and verify it does cause the AI to build them (and that the units start appearing thereafter), and tune down from there (or don't bother if you're happy that the AI builds these as its top priority in every city first) until I get round to sorting out the underlying evaluation issue.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you wanted to make SURE they build one in every city and right away, give them either a or a . That'll inspire 'em! Weight wouldn't be a quick consideration for them so it'd be only later when it comes into play, if at all.

I say this knowing that Koshling and Afforess may have made significant changes to that area of the code since I'd left an impression there last. So I may be wrong.

 

[Koshling]

If you wanted to make SURE they build one in every city and right away, give them either a or a . That'll inspire 'em! Weight wouldn't be a quick consideration for them so it'd be only later when it comes into play, if at all.

I say this knowing that Koshling and Afforess may have made significant changes to that area of the code since I'd left an impression there last. So I may be wrong.

AIWeight overrides everything (well gets added to everything at least) so it should work. There is some categorisation (it chooses from buildings within a filter) and that means that non-food/hammer producers migth not be the very top priorities (even if you add AIWeight), but in the case of the first crime building that is irrelevant since it provides 1 food.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Anyone? It is such an easy fix, I really don't understand why not to put that file in SVN.

I did. I just forgot tell anyone. The problem, of course is that if you are a modder and change it you may forget not to upload it the next time you do some changes which means people will get your preferences not theirs. I did that recently to one of the defines XML files.

It needs to be on the download but not on the SVN after the next release, I think.

 

[JosEPh_II]

SVN Version 2677 is incompatible to saved games. Gives this msg: SAVE format is not compatible due to missing class FEATURE_BARREL_CACTUS.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

@AIAndy:

I think someplace the Audio files got messed up, because when i play a game, in the Audio options it starts off with an AMD HD (Attached 1), but when i end the game, and look at some web sites and start a new game it reverts back to a 2 speaker (see attached 2) which has no audio at all? Plus the AMD one isn't even listed after that????(3rd pic)



EDIT: DH

TXT Gatherer . . . pic 4

 

[Cosmic Fox]

I don't see anyone commenting on the barbarian fish that have stats like 180-560% against Wooden ships, in fact all forms of ships. Was this done on purpose?

Another odd circumstance, if you are close to another civilization with open borders but ocean squares between they can transverse the ocean tile, regardless if they have astronomy technology or not. It pissed me off and I started another game!

The gold making in the game has gone crazy, I have had it up to 800 gold per turn at times, was this done on purpose as well to allow larger armies or something?

Kudos on the changes with technologies and such, I love everything else thus far. I haven't been past Industrial era yet though, something always happens and I get mad end up restarting another game.

Last few games I have RoM turned off to try and master the C2C Mod itself first The difficulty of the Mod overall is fairly high for me at least.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I don't see anyone commenting on the barbarian fish that have stats like 180-560% against Wooden ships, in fact all forms of ships. Was this done on purpose?

That was one of the first things fixed on the beta. We gave them the ability to get promotions but forgot to make them get the lowest ones first so naturally they went for the best.

Another odd circumstance, if you are close to another civilization with open borders but ocean squares between they can transverse the ocean tile, regardless if they have astronomy technology or not. It pissed me off and I started another game!

That is what open borders means for boats - they can travel anywhere in your cultural boundaries even if they could not normally enter the terrain. Oceans seem to be an afterthought in Civ IV.

The gold making in the game has gone crazy, I have had it up to 800 gold per turn at times, was this done on purpose as well to allow larger armies or something?

If you are playing with Rev on you need a large bank account. Also later in the game you need that stash just to survive the lean times. It is one of the things that need balancing. Part of the problem is getting the AI nations to survive; reducing the amount of money around causes them to implode.

 

[phill4848]

on the svn version my old game from march wont load bc it says that it needs barrel cactus, is it possible to add it back???

 

[Cosmic Fox]

That was one of the first things fixed on the beta. We gave them the ability to get promotions but forgot to make them get the lowest ones first so naturally they went for the best.

Ah that makes sense and I have to say I love the high stats due to the fact of how easy it was before to circumnavigate the globe, now you have to send a slew of them out in order to ensure you make it. Nice job.



That is what open borders means for boats - they can travel anywhere in your cultural boundaries even if they could not normally enter the terrain. Oceans seem to be an afterthought in Civ IV .

Right that sounds good, my bad not realizing that this would happen. The other Civ built a butt load of Dragon Ships and nearly wiped out most of my ships on that side of my land mass!



If you are playing with Rev on you need a large bank account. Also later in the game you need that stash just to survive the lean times. It is one of the things that need balancing. Part of the problem is getting the AI nations to survive; reducing the amount of money around causes them to implode.

I see, I haven't gotten too far running RoM on, the current game I have Rev off, trying to get a handle on the general Mod features!

Great job though, all your work, everyone's work has made Civ 4 my favorite game to play again. In fact I am horribly addicted up all night and right back at it after coffee in morning. Kudos guys thanks a lot!!

I meant Rev not RoM lol duh!

Edit: Minor Civs that haven't become a part of game yet, has a small typo still. City stateof blah, needs a space!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

on the svn version my old game from march wont load bc it says that it needs barrel cactus, is it possible to add it back???

I may be able add it back, however I will be without power on and off for the next couple of days so I don't know when it will happen. It and some other features have to be removed for the next release or so. This means we will need to find a way of removing features and their improvements without breaking save games and I suspect this will not be straight forward.

 

[strategyonly]

@AIAndy:

I think someplace the Audio files got messed up, because when i play a game, in the Audio options it starts off with an AMD HD (Attached 1), but when i end the game, and look at some web sites and start a new game it reverts back to a 2 speaker (see attached 2) which has no audio at all? Plus the AMD one isn't even listed after that????(3rd pic)

AI Andy:

There is something terribly wrong with the audio, now when i us the woc_installer for audio for the modules, i get a CTD right away when it says loading/audio

Here is what it has in the logs. attached logs and minidump

 

[Koshling]

I may be able add it back, however I will be without power on and off for the next couple of days so I don't know when it will happen. It and some other features have to be removed for the next release or so. This means we will need to find a way of removing features and their improvements without breaking save games and I suspect this will not be straight forward.

It won't be hard

Edit - to make it save game safe, in the sense that any no longer existing feature types a simply removed, that is. It won't magically replace them with any new resource type that are supposed to take their place, so while it will be save safe in the sense it will load, it may cripple your game because you'll lose anything dependent on the feature, and not get an access to the supposed replacement resource.