Version 1.12 Objectives

[blizzrd]

Yes, but a challenge nonetheless.

In my current game I have taken the Republic of Maya in the mid 1800s with stability as Solid (+38). Hoping to achieve Domination around 1900AD.

But my previous Mayan Domination attempt failed miserably in collapse, because the stability system really is quite uncompromising, particularly the permanent effects.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

I'm sure most people on this forum could play the current version of DoC without ever checking the Stability screen and do just fine.

Think about it. How often do you check the Stability screen and says "Oh crap, I'd better stop what I'm planning to do in this game and do something else instead because the Stability screen is telling me something I didn't know before!" How often?

 

[blizzrd]

I'm sure most people on this forum could play the current version of DoC without ever checking the Stability screen and do just fine.

Depending on one's objectives (UHV, cultural victory, conquest, or some other goal), they could do just fine - or they could collapse quite spectacularly.

EDIT:

Think about it. How often do you check the Stability screen and says "Oh crap, I'd better stop what I'm planning to do in this game and do something else instead because the Stability screen is telling me something I didn't know before!" How often?

I check F2 reasonably often. I certainly check it whenever I drop below Stable.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Depending on one's objectives (UHV, cultural victory, conquest, or some other goal), they could do just fine - or they could collapse quite spectacularly.

I mean UHV since that is what Stability is designed and balanced around (I think).

I check F2 reasonably often. I certainly check it whenever I drop below Stable.

But does the information on the screen actually make you alter your strategy (which you would not have done otherwise)? Has it ever? Or are you checking it simply because it's an impressive-looking array of numbers?

 

[clark k]

I like most of it. Especially the stability redesign. But as far as number six goes, i like being able to defy resolutions

 

[blizzrd]

But does the information on the screen actually make you alter your strategy (which you would not have done otherwise)? Has it ever? Or are you checking it simply because it's an impressive-looking array of numbers?

Yes, it has made me chance my strategy at times. I usually balance the negative stability effects of maintaining certain early civics for a while against whatever positive stability effects I can generate. But when the balance dips in favour of the negative stuff too much, it's time to adjust civics. When I choose to make the switch to Free Religion usually works on this basis in most of my games.

 

[UnholyMudcrab]

I like most of it. Especially the stability redesign. But as far as number six goes, i like being able to defy resolutions

Well, yeah, but so does the AI. And thus the AP voting never accomplishes anything.

 

[civ_king]

Leoreth, can you go to the Manual thread and tell us what you need?

 

[BenZL43]

Simplify sometimes means to replace iPhone with rotary phone. Hey, they both called phones!

Simplify for economy check means this: some major change in game triggers check. Economy check concerns with 1 thing only: do you still bleed Gold with 100% Gold slider?
No resources traded, no growth requirements, no need for progress and other silly checks -- if you don't bleed gold you pass.

If this means simplify -- no. Optimise, make a smarter code, reduce redundancies, shoot two birds with one stone -- yes.

If one's head hurts -- hiliotine can cure it in a simple and permanent way. But for some reason most people prefer to go through the complexities of modern pharmacology.

Well, okay.. need a better word then, perhaps redesign. revolution. whatever you got my point. And what is Hiliotine? I never heard that and can't find anything about that in Google.

 

[blizzrd]

Leoreth, can you go to the Manual thread and tell us what you need?

Where did your GoT quote go?

 

[blizzrd]

Leoreth, in light of the proposed mercenary changes / tech changes to allow rushing of early units - have you considered reviewing the starting gold for each civ?

Spoiler :

0, # Egypt
0, # China
0, # Babylonia
100, # Greece
80, # India
200, # Carthage
200, # Persia
100, # Rome
200, # Tamils
100, # Ethiopia
200, # Korea
200, # Maya
400, # Byzantium
100, # Japan
150, # Viking
300, # Arabia
50, # Tibet
200, # Khmer
300, # Indonesia
200, # Moors
200, # Spain
150, # France
200, # England
150, # Holy Rome
200, # Russia
600, # Mali
100, # Poland
200, # Portugal
700, # Inca
350, # Italy
250, # Mongolia
600, # Aztecs
400, # Mughals
300, # Turkey
800, # Thailand
300, # Congo
600, # Netherlands
800, # Germany
1500, # America
1200, # Argentina
1600, # Brazil
50, # Independent
50, # Independent
100, # Native
0, # Celtia
0, # Seljuks

 

[Leoreth]

So the best thing to do right now is get 1.11 out as quickly as possible?

Perhaps for 1.12 (and right now) you need to put a complete hold on new features other than the above ones, otherwise it will be about two years until 1.12 is released.

Yes, that was the reason why I set 1.11 for release now. I don't think freezing all features is necessary, what exactly is a feature anyway? Do new civics count? I will prioritize the points in the OP but some changes might require unforseen adjustments in other areas, so I don't want to rule anything out. If it takes too long, some of the stuff here comes with 1.13 instead.

The earliest Economy civic could possibly serve as the Mercenary civic, since anything else isn't even available until you research Banking. I reckon those »dummy« civics to be wasted slots — even the most primitive stuff should have some impact, just as Paganism doesn't allow a state religion.

I have already spent the last weeks thinking about civics and a lot of inspiration came from History Rewritten which does exactly that. I'm a bit hesitant though because starting civics shouldn't have downsides because this alters the early game too much, and should not have too strong effects so you'd want to remain in them when alternatives become available. So I'm not sure.

Durban(on gold) needs to be nerfed. it's ridiculous to see Durban in medieval(it's easy for player to research compass immediately to pass the capes). Maybe some resources like gold, gem, iron and cow should spawn later.

I agree, but this is not the right thread for this.

What specific civics are you looking at for redesign?

All of them? The interplay between civics is the most important part, as well as the choices you have to make in each particular column. I want to make these choices more interesting while keeping them sound thematically. Mainly, stuff will move around between the Society (which will probably be called Labor again) and Organization and Economy columns. Government and Religion should remain largely unchanged.

sprt is one of the coolest people I met on this forums ... but he made stability largely irrelevant. One can play 100-200 turns without pressing F2, one almost never has to worry that such a jewel even exists.
I simply ask you to play 1 full game yourself from the beginning to the end (pick Byzantines, for example) -- and you would not need to rely on what people are saying. Feel it for yourself, unlike some modders you play for fun sometimes, so just try it before you change anything, please.

You're right that I haven't played RFCCW in a while (only before this change was made), but I have read the code and that is enough to see the Matrix By which I mean that I already found some weaknesses there. So I certainly won't just go and copy/paste srpt's code, but instead implement everything on my own.

I'm sure you realize that a particular mechanism (both the old and this new one) can in principle be too easy, too hard or just right. It depends on the variables involved, not the mechanism itself.

I like most of it. Especially the stability redesign. But as far as number six goes, i like being able to defy resolutions

And you will. But a) defying resolutions should come with more appropriate consequences and b) the AI shouldn't be able to shut down all resolutions by defying them and not get into trouble.

Leoreth, can you go to the Manual thread and tell us what you need?

In which sense? I thought the idea was that I don't have to concern myself with this.

Leoreth, in light of the proposed mercenary changes / tech changes to allow rushing of early units - have you considered reviewing the starting gold for each civ?

For whom, and in which direction? This is one of the things I rarely change and do by feeling when adding new civs.

 

[blizzrd]

For whom, and in which direction? This is one of the things I rarely change and do by feeling when adding new civs.

Suggest you could review Moors, Turkey and Poland (upwards); and Thailand (downwards)

 

[theHIStorymaker]

As great as all this sounds, do you intend to remove whipping? Because that's a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Leoreth]

Of course not.

 

[Tigranes]

Well, okay.. need a better word then, perhaps redesign. revolution. whatever you got my point. And what is Hiliotine? I never heard that and can't find anything about that in Google.

Sorry man, the word is guillotine!

Spoiler :

Guillotine adalah sebuah alat untuk membunuh seseorang yang telah divonis hukuman mati dengan cepat dan 'manusiawi'.

 

[strijder20]

Sorry man, the word is guillotine!

Spoiler :

Guillotine adalah sebuah alat untuk membunuh seseorang yang telah divonis hukuman mati dengan cepat dan 'manusiawi'.

Took me a while to realise that too, thought you were talking about a deadly drug or something

 

[Jusos2108]

7. AI wars changes
Currently the AI wars module simply starts semi-randomized wars from time to time, even though it's possible to assign war plans to the AIs to allow them to build up before instead. I'd like to experiment with that because this could possibly make the AI much more effective.

Looking into Tholal's AI changes here might be helpful.

 

[Wilhelm Meister]

I agree with a guy who said something about national wonders requirements, I think 8 cities is way too much for most civilizations in the world, I think this number should be changed (I'd love to know how to do it myself) as it forces me to expand when I don't really want to.

 

[Leoreth]

This rather puts forward the question of whether national wonders should still be a thing at all. Rhye already turned most of them into proper wonders.