Very quick noob SG

[oldbustedjorn]

Good turns bobrath...

We do need to be careful that Louis doesn't gang up on Toledo - I hate when the AI flanks me! I can't wait to take paris - that should help us keep up with whoever is leading in GNP (I sure hope they are in a GA, otherwise we may have a runaway AI on our hands)...


It would be nice we could split up our units and send the cats to paris right away with adequate defense. Its hard to tell until I look at the save, but that way we could have the defenses down before the swords get there.

Take 'em down Maquis -

 

[eektor]

Lurker:

Hi everyone, as you can see by my post count I am a lurker on this site. I'm interested in participating in succession games so I can learn how to play civ4 better. So, I'm willing to play as an alternate until nitroduckie can come back, if you guys wouldn't mind. Oh I was the one that sent a pm to Maquis earlier.

 

[GreyFox]

I wouldn't mind, but Maquis is the Captain now.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

As long as Maquis is ok with it, its cool with me...

 

[Maquis]

Ok, I got it, We're at war! I'll play later tonight.

Hmmm... looks like I get to draw first blood. This should be interesting. I think the quick srike on Tours is obvious. From there, should we try to head north to Rhiems? Or speed straight east to Paris? Paris is a risk, but it would be a crippling blow... I'd like a little more feedback. From bobrath's turnset, it looks like we have one Cat, and one more being built. I was thinking having 2-3 would be minimum to take out Paris?

Good point oldbustedjorn, we really need to watch our flank at Toledo, as well as Seville. They are both in close striking distance for Loius.


eektor: I'll put you in Nitroduckie's slot, which means you'll be up soon. Looks like you joined in just in time to

The Roster:

player 1: Maquis ----- UP
player 2: oldbustedjorn ----- on deck
player 3: eektor - in for nitroduckie
player 4: GreyFox ----
player 5: bobrath ----

 

[oldbustedjorn]

I would to decide between Paris/Rheims until after Tours is down. You'll have to see what paris looks like as far as defense. I've seen the AI stack 6-7 archers in a city several turns after War is declared. Not that we wouldn't want to go after it, but if we can take Rheims fast (2 archer?) then its worth the diversion - if paris is equal or close in defense, it may be worth our while to start the siege of paris

 

[GreyFox]

Based on bobrath's report, we have 6 swords, 1 archer, 1 axe, 1 cat. I don't think that's enough ... well, more than enough to take Tours, but not enough to take Paris.

To minimize injuries, I would suggest spending 1~2 turns to bring down the defense at Tours down, meanwhile building/whipping more swords/cats.

After Tours, I would suggest splitting. Send most cats with some escort towards Paris to bombard the denfenses, meanwhile 4-5 swords + 1-2 cats should be able to take Rhemis. After Rhemis, bring them to join Paris.

We need two more archers to (3 in total to secure the 3 french cities after taking them). We need to bring along 2 workers to build roads to speed up troops movement.

Whip the cities. Its WAR time, slaves!!!

BTW, welcome, eektor. Despite what Maquis said, based on my observations of how Maquis and oldbustedjorn played in the past turnsets, I suspect the WAR might be over by time you get the game ... unless we are eliminating the french ... are we doing that?????

 

[eektor]

Hi, looks like I’m joining in for the fun part. I consider myself mostly a builder but I’ve been trying to become a better warmongerer especially during the early game.

Here is some ideas or suggestions to think about. We should think about bringing the Romans into war with the French. Since we are in position to attack the French we should be able to get all the cities we want from the French before the Romans take some of the cities. This would make the Romans like us more as well as help us finish off the French quicker. I’ve used this in some SP games and it worked well.

One concern I have is that our GNP is low. After the war with the French I think we should make it a priority to found a city in the site with the gems. We can specialize this city to be a commerce city with cottages all around. This could help our GNP greatly.

Well some things to think about it.

Edit: Oh well I take back what I said about joining in for the fun part

 

[GreyFox]

Edit: Oh well I take back what I said about joining in for the fun part

Hey, i am just teasing ... I suspect taking down Tours and Rhemis would take all of Maquis 10 turns, and oldbustedjorn should spend all his turns bringing up reinforcement and taking down Paris. You will have the honor of eliminating the French

Go, Spain, Go!

 

[oldbustedjorn]

Would it be terribly unwise to settle the gems now with the extra settler? I hate to wait until after the war but it may hurt too much to spare an archer and support another city. We also have to see how much louis throws at us...

Welcome eektor - we will probably need to work our GNP but I think it can wait until after the war because we'll have extra pillaging cash... If we take Paris and still have quite a few units left over, we can stop building units briefly and build a round of infrastructure (maybe a good time to get those gems), then back to military to go after JC if thats still the plan.

As far as getting JC involved, I always fear that they'll send a stack of praets at paris and get it before we do - or raze cities down south that we would want to keep. Let's see how tours and rheims go and make that decision on the fly - it would be interesting to see what he wants to join in, in case of emergency....

 

[bobrath]

Actually, I drew first blood! Captured that worker by Rheims with my warrior... tho I suspect our warrior won't do much more then attract arrows. The AI tends to send the third defender out if there's a target nearby.

BTW, I'd suggest raizing Tours. Its not in a great spot and doing so will keep our economy stable (plus we wouldn't need units to "defend" it). Worse case we settle it later. It only overlaps with Seville by one tile, so its not a sub optimal placement. If we had to keep only one city between Rheims and Tours... Rheims is the easy choice. The one thing Tours does provide is it would be a magnet for Louis' agression - at least in the short term.

Seville is defended by two archers and 1 axeman. Toledo has a warrior and an archer, but any attack on it has to go past Seville.

My plan on Tours would be to promote two swords to city attack 2 and just take out the two archers. Odds of about 80ish I believe. No need to slow down to bombard the defenses - esp since the "walk" to Rheims won't be all that fast.

I checked to see if JC would join us in war and he's too buddy with Louis. Heck Louis liked us better then JC did!

We can found Gem city whenever you guys are up for it, but lets not get so many cities that we can't support it. I'd hold off founding Gem City until currency comes in AND we have a worker or two avail to hook the gems up right away.

I did no so all of our cities are good and ready for it if necessary. Take care because whipping will hurt our economy since it will take away a citizen while adding a unit to upkeep.

War elephants... nice for extra movement, but with no mounted opponents we get more bang from Cats and Swords.

Other note... if we can get Bud to spread to any city... it gives us +1 gpt so missionaries post-war will be huge (of course we switch to OR post-war as well).

 

[bobrath]

Maquis: I'm pretty sure I turned Avoid Growth off in Madrid... but please check!!

 

[Maquis]

Turn 0, 540AD: Check things out, do a little MM.

Turn 1, 560AD: Let's get this started... I promote 2 of the swords to City Raider II and...



And we BURN Tours to the ground!

Turn 2, 580AD: Seville: Christian Temple --> Cat
Swords heal. The rest of the stack turn north to Rheims.

Turn 3, 600AD: Madrid: Sword --> Collisium. Barcelona: Cat --> Archer.

Turn 4, 620AD: Stack pushes to Rheims' doorstep. Loius begins to quiver in fear.

Turn 5, 640AD: First bombardment of Rhiems. Seville: Cat --> Sword. Barcelona: Archer --> Collisium.

Turn 6, 660AD: Bombardment continues, bringing defense down to 18%. Out army of swords becomes restless. ATTACK!!



I choose to keep Rheims around. Hopefully it will serve our empire well.
Hurrian: Lighthouse --> Forge.

Turn 7, 680AD. Currency in. I choose Code of Laws. We need Courthouses BAD!!! Our economy is really tettering on the edge right now.

Turn 8, 700AD: Smaller stack advances on Lyons. Largeer forces to the north begin scouting around Paris.

Turn 9, 720AD: Rheims comes out of revolt. Set the build to a granary.

Turn 10, 740AD: Bombardment begins at Lyons. We're still not ready to attack.



So far, so good in our war effort! We have suffered very few casualties, only a lone warrior and a couple of Swordsmen st Rheims.

We're facing a bit more of a challenge at Lyons, with 3 Axes and an archer. Not sure if I have enough troops there (there are a couple more en route)

Paris is definatly well defended; 8 uints there. That'll be the tough nut to crack. Do we continue to push on? We're really starting to feel the economic strain of the war. Spending quite a bit on unit supply.




Here's the save.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

Nice job applying the

This is my got it, but I won't be able to play until tomorrow night. That gives us plenty of time to discuss our strategy.

My initial observations:

- What do you think about leaving Lyons and going all out for Paris? If we take their capital, we can stop there becuase they will never be a factor and we can wipe them out at our choosing. If we stop, they'll be back - just not as powerful (not that they were).

- How long do you think it will take for Ceaser to start sending settlers up north?

- -16 @ 60% is just awful. I say we do what we can with what units we have now - even if its just lyons. We need more infrastructure now - mainly courthouses, good start on CoL. How many units do we have total on the attack?

 

[GreyFox]

Good set of turns! The war drum is beating hard! The war trumpet is blowing long!

IMHO, we have no choice but to push on, objective is Paris. We can stop after taking Paris. Not taking Paris would hurt us more in terms of economy. So, I say take Paris whatever the cost, even if it meant running 0 research throughout the war.

I am surprise by the taking of Lyons though, maybe it is indeed necessary in order to safeguard Totelo and Seville. I suggest leaving Orleans alone, milk the french for technology or gold for a peace treaty. However, there is a danger of JC taking Orleans though.

What is our relationship with JC? did we take any hit?

 

[GreyFox]

- How long do you think it will take for Ceaser to start sending settlers up north?

Let him, it would only hurt his economy. Once Rheims border grow, we would have cut off the north strip, so JC would be left with only the old Tours site. I think JC would settle the western isles instead of trying to grab th lands up north.

- -16 @ 60% is just awful. I say we do what we can with what units we have now - even if its just lyons. We need more infrastructure now - mainly courthouses, good start on CoL. How many units do we have total on the attack?

no, we can't stop. we MUST take paris.

Don't worry about the gold income, we have to take Paris even if it meant 0% research. We are already committed. Remember Spock: "If you chase two rabbits, you will lose them both". Paris is the rabbit we are chasing now, no point worrying about the other rabbit (commerce/reserach) until we catch the first.

Leaving Lyons alone, on the other hand, may be workable. An alternative which someone suggested earlier is to bring JC into the war now. Several advantages: firstly, it imroves our relationships with Rome; secondly, it creates a diversion, forcing the french to to reinforce the southern cities somewhat; thirdly, it slows the Romans down.

I doubt there is any fear of the Romans taking Paris before us. To get to Paris, they need to at least clean up Orleans, while we are already in the position to move to Paris. Furthermore, WAR is all about preparation. JC couldn't possibly had prepared for war, so he must spend a few turns to gear up his army (I don't see any praets in JC's city).

 

[Maquis]

If we want to take Paris, I'm sorry if I left our forces too split. There is some down by Lyons, while the rest is NW of Paris. Hopefully we will have enough troops to take it safely. Not sure how long it would take to get the army up to Paris from Lyons.

One thing of note, we got a -1 from JC (You declared war on our friend) But I checked once, and he will declare on Loius if we want. I think we'd have to give him a tech. Do we want to pull him in now? Not sure if JC would do too much, since it doesn't seem he has built up much...

Also, in a total moment, JC still has his Archer/Settler pair sitting on the isle W of Hurrian. I think he'll leave them there for the next 1000 years.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

Also, in a total moment, JC still has his Archer/Settler pair sitting on the isle W of Hurrian. I think he'll leave them there for the next 1000 years.

that needs to get patched...

Anyway, that may be a sign that we'll lose the western isle, but we can always take back if we need to. Not to mention, when (and if) we control all of our island, we'll be "playing" with them...

 

[bobrath]

My guess is that JC wants a second archer to go with that settler, but a galleon can't carry 3 units. Might be an archer en route that got halted cause of our sudden agression. We probably want to drop a random land unit on the western aisle just in case JC decided to settle there instead.


At this point, Lyons will provide a nice buffer with JC. We also won't have to worry about it flipping to JC. It would only bring us dyes at this point and further strain our economy. Not to mention leaving us with a bigger front to defend.

Re bringing JC into the war against Louis. It would have been nice to do at the start as it would have diverted forces from Paris to the south. At this point, I think if we did bring him in, all he'd do is cherry pick the southern cities. Upside is we'd get a bonus to relations due to our "mutual struggle", and MAYBE his economy would slow because of the sudden empire expansion. If we do bring him in, then sooner rather then later is a good thing. Make sure the tech we give him doesn't make his military too awesome tho, we want him to bleed Louis not kill him!

But yes we need to take Paris. The dual wonders and the fully developed city and lands will help us. After that, I'd see what Louis wants for peace.

 

[eektor]

Nice set of turns. I agree with everyone that we need to take Paris before we stop the war.

As for bringing JC in, it would help in giving the + modifiers for a mutual struggle, so we wouldn't have to worry about him backstabbing us before we backstab him

I'm glad you went for code of law. I was thinking of suggesting it, but I don't have to now.

One question if we were to take Lyons would you keep the city or raze it?