Very quick noob SG

I'm just about to play my turns, but I check the forums as I play...

@eektor: I'm going to make my first priority Paris, so we may just leave lyons. I don't see any reason to raze it though. I gauruntee that JC will have a city there within a few turns if we raze. It would hurt financially but at this point, we'll need to build infra anyway so we might as well bite the bullet. I haven't looked extensively at the save yet though...
 
If you leave Lyons alone, make sure our SW cities are defended though. Louis may sneak an attack though Lyons using his road networks... that reminds me, if you are not taking Lyons, then pillage the roads and other improvement! we could use some cash! The waiting time for pillaging also gives you more time to bombard Paris defenses down and bring even more forces to the battlefront.
 
IT (740AD):

Ok, taking a look around to see whats going on....



Not sure what I can do here, we have a french axe right behind our north sword/cat stack, with no archers - will probably lose a unit there. There is an axe/spear combo right next to seville - that would block our northern advance from lyons....

I notice seville is about to go unhappy -> I'm going to whip something there - probably military since market would only get us 1gpt extra (not worth the immediate benefit). I can whip an axe there and something in barc too, but there is no way I can take paris this turn.

There are 4 archers, 2 axes, and two spears - plus culture defense AND it would take the lyons units 6 turns to get there through french lands... What the heck am I supposed to do here?

Well I decide to be decisive and face the music later...

I whip several cities -> reason? because most were -2 unhappy and i just whipped them back to even. If I try to take paris (and I will at least head that direction), they won't be getting any happier. I will warn you though, our economy will most likely take a HUGE hit. I wouldn't worry, we have a decent tech lead locally. I think I got 3 axes and a sword out of our unhappy citizens..

End turn and say my prayers...


Turn 1(760AD):

Toledo: Racks -> Sword

Hmm, what did I say about JC and his settlers... He would later settle.



All the cities that built axes/swords last turn go back to what they were producing. We were not attacked at all, their north axe went for Rheims but were well defended. It will delay those reinforcements a turn though. I'm still gonna make a run at Paris, but probably won't finish on my turn... I start the long haul to paris and I'll check out Orleans on the way...pillage and burn baby...

Turn 2 (780AD):

Lose a sword to an axe in the south - thats why we should have had an axe in that stack - oh well...

Barc finishes colleseum and starts market (too far for mil reinforcements IMHO).

I attack an axe/spear thats about to pillage our stone near seville - 72% and lose grrr... But now I have to get rid of the axe and the spear or they'll just pillage... Sword kills spear - Axe finishes axe..

Louis wandering warrior in south is about to pillage our copper and/or attack our one archer city. I find a galley close by with an archer, and attack with 80% against the warrior -> WIN without a scratch.

What is he thinking? A settler gaurded by two spears during wartime?



I decide to leave them alone because I have no axes, and I would be in range of an attack next turn from the city of paris - and we could possible lose the whole stack.

I also switch seville to an axe to add to the 2 archers there - if louis attack there, he better bring an SoD.


Turn 3 (800AD):

CoL in -> Monarchy next for new civic (HR) - everything else is double digits anyway... I wanted Xbows but its 16 turns.

I create our new mini-SoD to start toward Paris -> should reach by end of my turns - there are units enroute to seville and in production at seville so it should be safe.



North stack in position to start bombard at paris... I assume louis will settle with the spear pair but I don't care, that will be easy picking later as it had two spears only. WE WANT PARIS NOW. And we can't ignore JC - although backward now - I can pretty much gauruntee he'll have that west island soon -> he is settler crazy it seems.


TUrn 4: (820AD):

Rheims expands.
Barb Archer in north.
Attack axe on our sheep by Rheims -> 75% and WIN - now I can move reinforcements down to paris from Rheims

Ok, heres our possible break.



Louis moves axe/spear outside of city - either to guard mine or go attack. If they attack our others cities, we have a good shot at paris, which now has less units. Start bombard -> down to 42%. We are going to need axes there though to take their axes out.
I do some other various MM.

Turn 5 (840AD):


Cordoba market -> courthouse

Seville finishes axe -> axe.

I fortify the seville axe in case louis makes a run at toledo (archer/warrior)...

Paris down to 24%... Odds for city raider II sword still 11% - WE NEED AXES... which are on their way...

I decide to send a sword from seville after the spears - If I promote strength and melee - he'll take both spears and grab a worker, plus won't get the city (unless founded before I get there).

Toledo finished sword -> Granary (we're at 40% science - need infra..)

Barb archer pillages stone in north but we have two - can't spare the units to take it right now.

Turn 6 (860AD):

Paris to 6% -> still 23% for sword -> with 7 units in the city, I'm unsure of a suicide - especially with units on the way. We might as well do this right. As soon as second stack arrives, I'll suicide at least two cats and pray...


Turn 7 (880AD):

Louis axe suicides on Rheims to our archer.
Bombard to 0% -> still at 24% (the cat has 20% for crying out loud!) I would go for it, but in two turns I'll have another stack there. I should be able to take it by the end of my turns. The weird thing is that Louis keeps moving units everywhere - seems safe but keep an eye out.

I whip granary at toledo...
I also kill a french spear by Rheims...

Turn 8 (900AD):

I kill an archer and an axe by seville...

I kill one spear but still a spear/settler left between rheims and seville.

One turn until Siege :hammer:


Turn 9 (920AD):

Stink! -> I forgot to promote axe in second stack and it promptly got nixed by the AI... major :smoke:

Thats gonna make it all that much harder with one axe left there...

Marseilles founded by louis, as soon as sword is healed, it will be razed.

The battle of Paris:

Here is what we are up against.



Upgrade first cat to barrage2 and suicide but damaged the axes!!
Same for second cat -> I'll save the other cats for now.
The city now:



1st sword 72% -> LOSE
2nd sword 89% -> LOSE WTF
3rd sword 97% -> WIN
4th sword 99% -> WIN
Axe 89% -> WIN
Cat 94% -> WIN
Cat 95% -> WIN
Spear 79% -> WIN



1 UNIT left -> oh well, I'll get it on my 10th turn...

Take out french spear in north...
Whip axeman in Rheims for barb archer...

Turn 10 (940AD):

Barb archer attacks Rheims and Dies.
Monarchy discovered -> Start Machine 20 turns
Hurrian Forge -> Court
Rheims Axe -> Court
Switch to Hereditary Rule for happy...

Of Course Louis pops an axe in paris grr...

I have no choice but to suicide a cat or risk not getting paris...

Cat Withdraws with little damage done
Cat2 beats axe - WIN WIN WIN
Axe beats Archer -> And...
 
PARIS IS OURS!!!



I keep swords outside since cats can't move -> we should be alright.

Louis offers calender and 130 gold for peace -> a really good deal at this point, we can't go much further. I would wait until marseilles is taken (gaurded by one spear should be easy) and then sign peace. Louis is crippled for LIFE. On the other front, I spotted some praets finally, it took JC long enough (940AD!!).

7 turns for paris until its usuable, and our empire is a mess, but happy about our spoils of war...

I would recommend the next person do some serious MMing and infra builds. Were at 60%/-12gpt and getting Machine in 13 turns - not good at all. Lets get our economy back in order, courthouses built, and then finish off Louis... Then we get JC at cavalry or something...

Some Pics...




More Comments:

We may have an economy in shambles, but we have lots of territory. We may be able to finish off Louis, but JC will just take up the land as soon as were done. Let's get our civ back on its feet!

The Roster:

player 1: Maquis -----
player 2: oldbustedjorn ----- French Assassin -> played
player 3: eektor - UP NOW
player 4: GreyFox ---- On deck
player 5: bobrath ----

And the save - I REMEMBERED!!!
View attachment 114654
 
Ok this is my got it post.

Nice job taking Paris. What is MMing? Well, I plan on taking Marseille, make peace, and concentrate on infrastructure. I'm at work so I haven't looked at the save yet. I have some time to play tonight or I can play tomorrow night. I would like to see some discussion. This would be my first time playing a turn set in a SG so I'll try not to screw up.
 
What is MMing?
Click to expand...

Micro-managing - basically just working different tiles to achieve a desired result like getting more commerce, growth, or focusing on production. I always look at all our cities at this stage of the game and make sure they are running optimally.

I did this on my turns, but they were only partially bent toward infr, the rest was military. As soon as you sign peace, make sure all cities are at max happy or growing toward that. And keep in mind that we are using Hereditary Rule which will add more happy for having units fortified.

Your goals sound good, I think if we get our empire together and running smoothly, we will be very powerful mid-game.
 
Micromanagement - switching out which tiles are worked and what specialists are in use.

Remember that as soon as we learn Calendar we lose the effect of stonehenge. Small point in know, but if Louis has anything else to offer instead... might benefit us more. Course I'm open to the group discussion.

I can't really tell from the screenshots you uploaded, but where did Marseille get founded? I'll look at the save file tonight when I get home of course, but want to have a full day of discussion if I can! BTW, I appreciate the two summary screen shots, but in the future... can you include a shot showing the world itself? Gives me a much better "feel" then the score chart. Great writeup tho, very interesting.

Great work on taking Paris, great luck that he moved units out. I'd suggest the next person get courthouses in our far flung empire asap. I think those will do more positive impact then markets at this point. Also, don't forget to switch back to OR so we build faster and can get missionaries out. In fact, as soon as you're "done" building units you can switch out. It will be higher upkeep then Theocracy, but it will speed up the infrastructure builds.

Since we have the Pyramids now... anyone want to recommend the best govt civic for us? ;)

Great work again all, and eektor you'll do fine. Its just a game after all :p
 
First off, great job taking Paris! Especially after the mess I left us in :blush:

I think we should go ahead and take calendar from Loius. At this point, I think the benefits outweight the negatives of losing Stonehedge. Our cities have been established, and are all able to grow culturally on their own. I would much rather see us be able to work the Spices, Dyes, etc. for extra $$ and happy bonuses.

I think courthouses should be a top priority in many of our cities. We need to get our economy under control ASAP. I think (one we build back up a bit) Paris would be the logical place for our FP?

Now that we have Pyramids, should we go with Representation? I know we have been running close to happiness limits in several of our cities, hopefully getting some more resources hooked up can add some happy. I'd like to see the +3 beakers...

Also, once we sign peace with Louis, do we go back to OR for religion, for the building bonus?
 
:woohoo: :goodjob: Paris is ours! Great job oldbustedjorn!

I say go for the one that gives us the maximum happiness.

We should milk Louis for the gold and tech, hwoever if you wanna raze Marsellie, is fine with me. Alternatively, we could always leave him alone and kill him off after 10 turns of peace treaty. Bobrath is right about calendar obseleting stonehedge. Question is do we need the free obelisk and/or Great Prophet point? Gotta weigh it against whether we have any calendar resource too.

Also, have to consider if we have adequate defense at Paris... those units that moved out may return to grab Paris back. Thus if we do not have adequate defense, a peace treaty would prevent the French retaking Paris too.

The AI made some strange decision moving troops out and settling while capital is under siege.

All in all, great job! We had choosen wisely! :lol:
 
Since we have the Pyramids now... anyone want to recommend the best govt civic for us?
Click to expand...

Ahh, I forgot about the Pyramids! - Do we get to use it even though Paris is in revolt? If we do, I would recommend Representation (or whatever was +3 beakers and I believe +3 happy in 3 largest cities).

can you include a shot showing the world itself?
Click to expand...

Noted, will fix in next post!

Those units that moved out were, I believe, killed in the north by our reinforcments that never made it to Paris. They didn't make it because everytime they took a few steps, there were frenchies coming north that they would take out. I don't believe there are any units immediately above paris and if they are below, I don't think they could bypass our sword/cat stack. If they did, it better be a stack of units because there is a fully healed axe and an injured spear in the city. Next turn I would move the sword/cat stack (2 of each) into paris for safety and to heal.

I started several courts, but yes - we would save an average of 2gpt/city by having courts in our cities. And the FP in Paris? - ph34r the n00bs....
 
Maquis said:
Also, once we sign peace with Louis, do we go back to OR for religion, for the building bonus?
Click to expand...

Yes, Yes, Yes. We go OR as soon as we can (ie when we no longer need units for the war/defense). As I said above, its slightly higher upkeep (high from the medium of theocracy) but reducing the build times of our courthouses will quickly overcome that.

I think representation is in top 5 cities... so we could *really* use that right now.

I agree that Calendar gives us more then it takes away. We've eliminated the majority of the culture push threat of Louis (at least for now) as our two cities bordering him (Paris and Sevillle) are culture fiends right now. For as long as Louis will be around (hee hee) we can handle his culture. Plus the extra happy of resources (Spices south of Captial) (get more workers!!) will help our cities grow and that improves our economy.
 
A few more thoughts:

OR is good - I believe Rep is cheaper than HR which we are running because it was available at the time. That will hopefully offset the cost of OR.

I agree with calender as well, because theatre is not far away and they give more culture anyway.

Have we built the Buddhist shrine yet? If we did I can't remember (but hey, I could of have built it and forgotten).

Remember we are spiritual, so we can switch back from OR if and when we need it, at no overall effect (except -25% prod)...
 
Yes, we have built the buddist shrine. Last I looked, it was giving something like +10. Not sure if we can spread buddism further to get some more $ that way. I think there are a couple of our newest cities that do not have it yet.
 
BTW, if we do pop another great prophet... Divine Right is available and that would be a huge bonus for us: Spiral Minaret improves our economy (double speed with stone), we can build Versailles (second FP), and Founding Islam aint' too shabby.

We do have the buddhist shrine - that's how JC got converted! Lets make sure we have missionaries spreading the faith (and once we start exploring the sea make sure you have a missionary along to spread the faith to the remote civs).

I'd go with Divine Right over building the Christian Shrine. Sure having more culture Toledo would be nice and since the town is on the water we might spread religion across the seas... but having a monopoly on an expensive tech is always nice esp once we start meeting the other civs (which btw we need to start finding!)

Along that note... Machinery leads to Engineering which helps us move across roads faster and all and gets us macemen. Pikemen won't help much since there are no horses here. OTOH Compass then Optics (with Machinery before it) means we can now search the oceans and hopefully nab that +1 movement for circumnavigating. We're going to have to deal with the sea on this map, so we should have the advantages we can.

Yes, I'm advocating moving away from military advancement because I think we're far enough ahead of JC and Louis that we will be able to smack them down. Especially if we can pillage some key resources early in the next war. To that end, it might be nice to have a couple Elephants ready to go deep into enemy territory.
 
Another suggestion...

Since your going to take that final city - maybe send an axeman (there are two by seville) into louis' territory to pillage a bit. Lyons is surrounded by a lot of jungle, and if the resources are pillages (spice I think), they will be truly done and we'll get some money before we sign peace.
 
:yeah: :yeah: ^^^^ Awesome Idea ^^^^^ :yeah: :yeah:


I'm going to put this "strat" in my toolbox for future games!


and along those lines we might want to bring JC into the war the turn before we stand down. No sense giving Louis a rest and this can drain some of JC's resources too. Unless its too expensive to bring him on board that is.
 
I would say leave JC out of the war, unless you really want to finish the French. If you bing him in, he will most likely finish off Louis and grab the remaining 2 french cities.

We can leave the french alone after burning his silly-settled-during-war-time city. Louis is crippled beyond repair, losing his prime capital, with only two cities, and all that. But of-course, as I have suggested earlier before the taking of Paris, and also suggested by oldbustedjorn, pillage the remaining 2 french cities before signing for peace.

Research wise, I say go for optics. We need that circumnavigation bonus to dominate in the mordern era in a continents map. Also, we are leading our neighbor by too much, we need new "frienemies" to trade tech. In addition, we pretty much exhausted buddhisms in our small continent. (don't worry about our own cities, once they are connected to the trade network, it will get the religion spread sooner or later, especially if we are running OR). We need new infidels to convert :D

I see JC trying to get a city south of yellow-dot. I don't see resources there, so we can let him do that for the time being.
 
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