Vincentz Infinite Projects [VIP MOD]

your choice, but I find the AI is a lot more forgiving than humans when it comes to restrictions. This rule infact wouldn't affect me as hate any overlap between cities :p

yeah, tell me about it. the AI pwned me big time in the beginning after I made changes to movement and visibility. It instantly adjusted, which I myself (even though I had made the changes) had some difficulties with :D
 
The early cities are placed closer to gain an advantage. The obvious being lower city distance maintenaince cost, but as pointed out in one of the strategy articles, it gives out 2nd city time to develop cottages into towns for the Capitol to work better when it has the pop later and in the Bureaucracy civic.
This is being hindered by the longer distance penalty. Also, as I mentioned, with the reduced vision early on, and having to research Sailing to even see out 2 water tiles, this 4 tile distance screws over those cities that could normally be placed on the coast to get fish, clam and crab resourses to grow. This in turn penalizes water based empires, such as Carthrage, whose UB must go in a coastal city. The fewer one has, the weaker this UB becomes. If seafood were every 4 tiles, then missing a few wouldn't matter much, but it is more rare than that.
 
in all fairness, the human understands the risk of founding close to cities, the AI does not. I think the human can found in normal radius but the AI cant (for it's own good!)

your choice though
 
I have to agree with plasmacannon.

This human phobia about city overlap is rather silly. In C2C and AND I've stopped using the extended city range too. I have no problem with some overlap in my own cities and the AI isn't really hurt by it either.

I can still remember the early RoM days when you fought over every tile to get a city built. And if you had Open Borders and had 4-7 unused tiles in the middle of your empire, well guess what the AI would plop a city in there if you didn't. And That was Fun and Strategic! Now we have to have the extended Fat X Plus extra tiles for space in between or we're too crowded. Blah! Humbug! :mischief:

JosEPh ;)
 
thats why you code in that the AI must be 3 always and the human can choose for itself. that way AI cities mihgt reach size 20 :lol: (in my recent game as mongolia I have a size 33 city :D)
 
I space my cities so much I hadn't even noticed you couldn't found them close to each other! :rolleyes:
 
Here is a good example.
http://i.imgur.com/uWQVD.jpg

First, you might notice, that my Capitol doesn't have fresh water, because I moved it 1SE to a hill to get a 2nd fish. Had I settled in place, it could not have been used.
This also provided me with the option to place a city to my left, should some resourses appear in that direction.
Wow. Good thinking on my part, because Copper and horse appeared west of my city.
I don't know how aggressive the barbs are in this mod and I might want to do a rush, so my 1st city goes there.
Unfortunately, I can't mine the copper, because I can only build 4 tiles from my Capitol. So, my first new city has to lose freshwater, lose production from the copper mine and it can't steal the Fish from my Capitol, when I want it to pop up faster.

I think, Fine. I'll deal with it. I'm trying out this new mod (new to me anyway).

ok. I tag where I want my next cities to go. Since, I have no idea where some of the resourses will pop up in the future, I'm placing each city 4 tiles from each other with some overlap, if possible.
I use one of my clubmen to recheck around this mountain for enemy expansion. None.
My next settler pops out. I escort it with a clubman. I get to my plotted location to get freshwater a gold and to grab any other tiles my other cities can't get. When I get there, it says I can't build there, because I am 3 tiles away from a city??? I recheck my distance. Nope, I'm 4 tiles from my Capitol and 2nd city. wth?!?
Now, I'm getting really upset.

After this screenshot, I scouted with my clubman to see if America had dropped a city after I scouted. YES, he did! Two tiles east of the mountain, next to an oasis, I found an American city.
I am now seriously pissed off.
By the AI building his city there, it messes up my entire radius 1 plan of new cities.
I had to drop my research down to be able to pay for the 1st new city. Now, this one would have to be placed further from my Capitol, increasing my distance cost. The closest I could place it (the blue circle the game indicates) will be 6 tiles from my Capitol, not 4 and leave a gap of land 1 tile wide at radius 3 from my Capitol. I have no idea what important resourses will appear there and am not happy.

My next city was to get the potato 4 tiles NE of my Capitol.
This is now 3 tiles from the American city, so it can't go there. I came up with this location based on where my gold city was to go and the coastal city to the south was planned.
If, I build the city on the coast, I lose the potato city alltogether.
The only logical place is 1 tile SE of the potato, which means I will lose the southern city.
By the way, this is a standard size map, low water with a friend and 6 AIs. Arabia is to the East of America. So, knowing I won't be able to afford more cities, nor conquer with just my clubman, I quit this game.

We restarted on a large map, hoping to solve the close AI issue.
I hope, you can see the problems this issue creates and why I strongly suggest returning the game standard of 3 tile cities being possible.

In our large map game, my friend exploited this against the AI. He rushed up and placed a city 3 tiles form the AI's copper, severly limiting where the AI could place a city to get it. If the AI placed his city 2 tiles south of the copper, he could get it, but it would be on his Tea and be off the coast to get a shrimp tile. Eventually, the AI got radius 3 on his Capitol and could mine it, but not use the tile.

The 4 distance between cities makes the game about limiting your opponent's ability to gain access to resources, rather than smart city placement and lower city maintenaince. I prefer the latter to the former.
The game is designed with 3-4 city distance in mind. I have no idea how many more problems this will cause. From what I can tell, standard size maps are unplayable for us. I'd hate to see the cramped city limits this would place on players using Small or Tiny sized maps.
 
TBH I never expected THAT change to be the one that got most comments ;)
Lots of other stuff is drastically/controversially changed in VIP :D

I'll add the change to Menu item 3 in the VIP loader.
That was the reason why I put the menu item 3 in the first place : for changing gamerules.

attachment.php


If you want to try out with range 2 now, its found in
....Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\VIP\Assets\XMLGlobalDefines.xml

Code:
	<Define>
		<DefineName>MIN_CITY_RANGE</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>3</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

Simply changing it to 2 does the trick, and can afaik be done ingame (might have to restart game though, but definately savegame compatible)
 
A menu? I didn't see that.
I normally just select Advanced/load a mod.
I found it. VIPLOADER.bat
ok cool.
I'll let my friend know, so he can make the same changes to his file.
Yes, it would be great when it is in the bat.
We like the mods graphics and other features. It is great news to know of a way to overcome this issue for standard size maps.
For now, we'll see how this goes on the large map.

He has had some crash issues too. Mine runs fine 90% of the time. His will crash 1-2 times per hour. Usually when a popup happens. Everytime he meets an AI for the first time, his screen freezes. If he hit's the esc key, it clears it, but obviously negotiations can't happen.
 
He has had some crash issues too. Mine runs fine 90% of the time. His will crash 1-2 times per hour. Usually when a popup happens. Everytime he meets an AI for the first time, his screen freezes. If he hit's the esc key, it clears it, but obviously negotiations can't happen.

wooot? crashes???
I havent had a crash since, well, forever, with my mod. And it was designed on a 8 year old HP Pavilion with 1.5 GB ram and 128 MB graphics running XP 32bit. :D

Try to turn the graphics down. Especially the Movie Quality.
The only thing that is "required" is Animated Graphics (the way some modders made the unit graphics requires it, otherwise the unit they "painted over" will appear when unit is not activated).

Its prolly a ram problem. Does he have less than 1.5 GB ram or using integrated graphics?
Is it PC or MAC? what OS? Are the crashes MAF (Memory allocation failure) or just hardcrashes (crash without message)

In VIP loader there is an option under "Select Graphics" -> "Unit Graphics" -> "All Off"
It disables ethnic unit graphics, and should help especially in early eraes.

I might add "still pictures" of leaders as an option in VIP loader. That will help most.


edit : though it shouldnt be necessary, it never hurts to enable the 3GB switch if its a 32bit XP or Vista :
http://dwf.blogs.com/beyond_the_paper/2009/04/enabling-3gb-switch-on-windows-vista.html
 
Windows7 64 bit, 4gb RAM, 2.4ghz Quad Core, 2gb ATI 6950 Video Card.
Certainly enough for Civ4. It runs Civ5 well too.

We are thinking it might be a network issue. We haven't installed any software since we have upgraded to larger hard drives.

EDIT: I've reinstalled the network software. We will run the game today and report any errors.
When I open the GlobalDefines.xml file, it opens IE9 and it is read only. What is a common program to edit these files? Notepad?
 
Note pad or Word pad, I like Word in that, for me, It's easier to read (old eyes) and I can use the Find function.

JosEPh
 
Yep, definitely enough for civ+vip. :confused:

was the crash occurring with only some leaders (the new female leaderheads) or was it a general pop up and/or leaders problem.

And the crashes only happened during Multiplayer or also in single player?

Did one of the computers have Custom Assets installed? (folder in .......Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\CustomAssets)

And when did they start? at first contact in BC or only in lategame?

and a couple of stupid questions : both have 3.19 BtS? (dl update, not the broken ingame updater) both have latest version (or atleast the same version) of VIP?
 
Note pad or Word pad, I like Word in that, for me, It's easier to read (old eyes) and I can use the Find function.

JosEPh

Thanks. That worked.


Arghh... That MOO3 phallic Imsaeis avatar. How horrible! LOL!
I'm in the bunch that strongly preferred MOO2. Those starlanes, that popup interface style and many of my favorite races were removed, just ruined the game for me.
Forever waiting for MOO4. :(


Both do have 3.19 BtS and we both have the VIP mod installed. So, custom assets should be identical.
 
After editing the xml and saving it, we can nolonger see each other on the LAN.
We loaded StarCraft and can see each other in the LAN lobby.
We loaded Civ4 with no mods and can see each other in the LAN lobby.
We loaded the K-mod and can see each other in the LAN lobby.
We both loaded VIP mod in single player and can both play single player games.
I created a backup of the xml and changed back and copied it to a shared folder for the 2nd machine, and can not see each other in the LAN lobby.
The 2nd machine didn't create a backup copy of it, hence the reason for the copy sent over.
Right now, short of a full reinstall of VIP, I'm stumped.
 
It's been awhile since we tried the direct IP.
We tried it with History Rewritten tonight and the game only froze once. We'll try it with VIP tomorrow. We need to confirm that it will work again.
 
<snip>


Arghh... That MOO3 phallic Imsaeis avatar. How horrible! LOL!
I'm in the bunch that strongly preferred MOO2. Those starlanes, that popup interface style and many of my favorite races were removed, just ruined the game for me.
Forever waiting for MOO4. :(


<snip>

OT: I modded MoOIII and have played all 3 games of the series for many years. I enjoy every one of them.

you can still overlap. its not THAT far

...but.... I can make the VIP loader able to load a setting of 2 instead of 3. I just dont think the AI cities will get size 20+
I had forgotten about the Loader too! As for the AI making size 20 cities....I think you'll be surprised. ;)

JosEPh
 
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