Vincentz Infinite Projects [VIP MOD]

[Noyyau]

As for the AI making size 20 cities....I think you'll be surprised.

Oh yes, especially when food guilds start spreading!

Today's questions:
1)How do I get Fuel, apart from a random pop in a Industry-improved tile? I got plenty refineries but they apparently employ incompetent industrial chemists. And yes, I do have access to Oil.

2)Seeing Ironclads and Iron Frigates die to a random Frigate is quite annoying, either it's the lack of Combat promos (sorry for the nagging), or maybe ship strenghts should be "spaced out" more? Or later ships could get a bonus vs wooden ones? (IIRC AND had different classes of ships, not just "Naval units")

3)Haven't gotten to them yet, but I've always wondered if it was possible to make submarines work like privateers (or the warlords), and add a chance for the owner to be known during attack (sorta like the spies), possibly causing war. Maybe a higher discovery % if there's a stealth-seeing unit nearby (e.g. destroyers).

 

[vincentz]

1) fixed - gonna look at other modern resources to make sure they are fixed too.

2) Gonna look at it, though I switched strength with ironclad and iron frigate, so iron frigate is even weaker. Since ironclads, iron frigates and ship of the line are soo close in techs, they shouldnt be too far in strength. My idea about ships was to get the stone, paper, scissor effect. One able to carry units, one fast, but weak and one heavy but slow.

3) My first mod for civ4 was Red October. A rouge sub buildable if Kremlin was built in a harborcity. While there could be only 1, it was a nice addition and boosted the otherwise boring Kremlin. Might redo the mod.

 

[Noyyau]

It feels so... perverse to annex the Roman Empire using the Carthaginians.

Anyway.
1)When a work boat creates an Offshore Platform (for Oil and Natural Gas, happens on both) the platform is created, and the boat remains. Intended?

2)How come the Natural Gas Power Plant creates the same amount of unhealthiness (and not less) than the Coal Plant, and costs 10%maintenance (instead of the coal's 5%)? Considering it comes quite later, it feels kinda useless.

3)I only happened to look at the future techs now. Talk about a wasteland...

 

[vincentz]

1) will fix. was thinking about setting a timer on workboats before they were "consumed". So setting up nets for a crab would take f.ex. 3 turns.

2) Well spotted Will fix it too. Though there is 1 "advantage" (not really an advantage). If u dont have coal, but have gas, then there is power there.

3) Yep. But.... before I got something there, it is imho better to have than Future Tech 1, Future Tech 2, Future Tech 3 etc etc


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I looked at some of the modern resources and units. There is a lot of work there too.
As mentioned, usually I would get to renaissance as latest before I would restart with all the changes I made, though my present game have great potential to make it to the future era.
So the next, or perhaps next next version of VIP will be more polished.

Some stuff, due to the way modding works in civ, will have to be added in later versions though, as an ongoing game cannot add stuff (or it will be savegame incompatible).

I hope to add a new version within the next week (that will be savegame compatible with 0.87 and up)



Edit :

Im also considering boosting siege weapons considerably (and make em more costly), but removing some of their withdrawal rate and make them even less collateral (I noticed that many times the unit being attacked by the siege would not get hurt, only the collateral units got hurt), though I cannot quite scope the consequences (more powerful means more survival. As it is now, a 50% withdraw rate means a lot of death for sieges, but shouldnt a siege weapon (especially after gunpowder) be a "safe" way of attacking?

 

[Noyyau]

1)What would be the purpose? IMHO it'd make sense if the work boat wouldn't then be consumed, effectively transforming it in a sea Worker. But having to wait only to lose the boat anyway...

2)Coal is way more plentiful than gas anyway (at least, on my map). From AND I remember there was also an Oil Power Plant, which came later than the Coal Plant but had a bit less pollution. So I thought that here the Gas Plant had taken its place.

By the way, I haven't tried it yet, but if I have a Coal plant in a city and then I build there either a Hydro or a Nuke plant, does the old plant get removed? Or do I have to pay maintenance for both? (Man, did I love being able to sell buildings!)

3)I figured you wanted to have the earlier eras done before going to the future, it seems not many people play that far anyway (I do, though). Guess I'll stop this game in the mid modern era when I have all the units/buildings.
I'll wait for your next release to start a new one.

 

[Noyyau]

Im also considering boosting siege weapons considerably (and make em more costly), but removing some of their withdrawal rate and make them even less collateral (I noticed that many times the unit being attacked by the siege would not get hurt, only the collateral units got hurt), though I cannot quite scope the consequences (more powerful means more survival. As it is now, a 50% withdraw rate means a lot of death for sieges, but shouldnt a siege weapon (especially after gunpowder) be a "safe" way of attacking?

Yea, siege are quite underpowered from what I was used to, so I've been using them to just blast defenses, and then have one or two general-lead highly promoted "city busters" to kill the hardiest defenders. Not much need now that I've got air support, though

What about removing the possibility to attack directly, and allowing instead to only bombard (as in ranged bombardment to hurt units)? Civ3 used siege that way, and I think it made more sense that way. Siege was also capturable if not escorted...

 

[plasmacannon]

I liked the way Civ3 and 5 treated seige too. Especially Artillery and later seige.
The earlier seige, one could expect mounted units to race up and attack, but Artillery can fire from miles away and shouldn't be reachable in the same turn.
I too started to find Artillery becomming useless after aircraft emerged. Especially, when going from island to island. Carriers are far simpler to manage.

I don't know if this is possible to mod in, but in Empire Earth, we could build free standing Anti-Aircraft guns to shoot down fighters and bombers. Is there anyway to create an improvement that includes an AA gun?
It would not be a unit, and a worker could build it on any non-mountain land tile. Maybe, something like a 25% chance to damage the aircraft? Perhaps, subtract 1 prod from the tile?
Even an improved one costing 2 prod/tile, but a 50% chance to damage, to encourage these to be built in hills.
In EE, we could build dozens of AA to protect a specific border.

I like the idea about subs used as pirates. Unless another sub or dest is nearby using active sonar, it isn't easy to identify whose sub it was in real life.
I hope the submarine images will be corrected too.
The Submarine in the Civilipedia should be an early WW2 sub, like the famous German U-Boat. The image shows this, but the stats don't. The U-Boat couldn't carry 3 nuclear missles. Those would be Boomers or Ballistic Missle Submarines which would carry 16, 20 or 24 missles, but nevermind that now. The third type of Submarine would be the Attack Submarine, which would be the modern equivalent of the U-Boat. The Civilopedia has the name correct, but uses the image of a Boomer.
The civilopedia seems to cramm these 3 units types into 2 units.
Since, you did a Hunt for Red October mod, you are familiar with the 688 fast attack submarine (USS Dallas) from the movie. That is the modern upgrade from the U-Boat.
Also, they would require different resourses. To summerize:

U-Boats requires Oil and upgrades to Fast Attack Sub. Correct image. Use the image from "Submarine" from the Civilopedia.
SSBNs require Uranium and can carry 3 missles. Correct image. Use image from "Attack Submarine" from the Civilopedia.
Fast Attack Subs require Uranium. Use image a real fast attack image to add to the Civilopedia.

If someone doesn't want to overcomplicate the sub field by adding even more, that's fine, but those 3 types should be the minimum. It seems silly to use U-boats to launch nuclear missles at modern tanks on the ground.

 

[vincentz]

All units can have a Needed resource, and an array of OR resources.
but units can also get a % production bonus for having a resource.

Example : Biplane Fighter - Need Autos AND (Oil OR Fuel)

Modern Resources :

Copper, Iron, Steel, Aluminum, Alloys,
Coal, Oil, Fuel, Uranium
Autos, Electronics, Rubber, Synthetic Rubber
Grenades, Automatic Weapons


Air Units :

Biplane Fighter - (Oil or Fuel) - 25% Autos
Biplane Bomber - Grenades and (Oil or Fuel) - 25% Autos

Fighter - Automatic Weapons and (Oil or Fuel) - 25% Autos
Bomber - Grenades and (Oil or Fuel) - 25% Autos
Dive Bomber - Grenades and (Oil or Fuel) - 25% Autos


will be continued...

 

[Noyyau]

It's not really important, but am I right in understanding that the "grenades" resource represents explosives in general?

 

[vincentz]

It's not really important, but am I right in understanding that the "grenades" resource represents explosives in general?

well, I thought about calling it Bombs instead. but yeah.

 

[vincentz]

1) I liked the way Civ3 and 5 treated seige too. Especially Artillery and later seige.
The earlier seige, one could expect mounted units to race up and attack, but Artillery can fire from miles away and shouldn't be reachable in the same turn.
I too started to find Artillery becomming useless after aircraft emerged. Especially, when going from island to island. Carriers are far simpler to manage.

2) I don't know if this is possible to mod in, but in Empire Earth, we could build free standing Anti-Aircraft guns to shoot down fighters and bombers. Is there anyway to create an improvement that includes an AA gun?
It would not be a unit, and a worker could build it on any non-mountain land tile. Maybe, something like a 25% chance to damage the aircraft? Perhaps, subtract 1 prod from the tile?
Even an improved one costing 2 prod/tile, but a 50% chance to damage, to encourage these to be built in hills.
In EE, we could build dozens of AA to protect a specific border.

3) I like the idea about subs used as pirates. Unless another sub or dest is nearby using active sonar, it isn't easy to identify whose sub it was in real life.
I hope the submarine images will be corrected too.
The Submarine in the Civilipedia should be an early WW2 sub, like the famous German U-Boat. The image shows this, but the stats don't. The U-Boat couldn't carry 3 nuclear missles. Those would be Boomers or Ballistic Missle Submarines which would carry 16, 20 or 24 missles, but nevermind that now. The third type of Submarine would be the Attack Submarine, which would be the modern equivalent of the U-Boat. The Civilopedia has the name correct, but uses the image of a Boomer.
The civilopedia seems to cramm these 3 units types into 2 units.
Since, you did a Hunt for Red October mod, you are familiar with the 688 fast attack submarine (USS Dallas) from the movie. That is the modern upgrade from the U-Boat.
Also, they would require different resourses. To summerize:

U-Boats requires Oil and upgrades to Fast Attack Sub. Correct image. Use the image from "Submarine" from the Civilopedia.
SSBNs require Uranium and can carry 3 missles. Correct image. Use image from "Attack Submarine" from the Civilopedia.
Fast Attack Subs require Uranium. Use image a real fast attack image to add to the Civilopedia.

If someone doesn't want to overcomplicate the sub field by adding even more, that's fine, but those 3 types should be the minimum. It seems silly to use U-boats to launch nuclear missles at modern tanks on the ground.

1) Going to boost cannon+ sieges. I really liked DCMs sieges (can bombard units) though its a dll mod and iirc it wasnt very AI friendly.

2) There is a good Flak unit graphic. Might make a nice AA. Does the AI use lots of air units?

3) Yeah, the vanilla civ subs is a big LOOOL. The graphic for attack subs actually have missile tubes, while it is the WWII U Boot can carry missiles iirc. Thought I actually changed it already, but is definitely going to change it. Might also add Nuclear Sub.



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Im currently in 1700 AD with cannons/riflemen/cavalry though researching combustion.
It have been a really slow game, coz I'm at war more or less all the time, but that is not all bad, coz it makes it easier to adjust/balance units.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Since your now at 1700AD how's the city size looking? Do you have any size 20 cities? Does the AI?

JosEPh

 

[vincentz]

Since your now at 1700AD how's the city size looking? Do you have any size 20 cities? Does the AI?

JosEPh

yeah but the question was, would they have 20+ cities if the build distance was 2 instead of 3

I think that it might, but if playing on a Gigantic Map (which already have too many cities imho) then there would just be an insane amount of cities.
Im still going to add it to the VIP loader (which, guys, u have to use, coz otherwise the loadingscreens doesnt rotate, and I spent a great deal of time making the loading screens ) as there was multiple requests for it.

Though my graphics card fried... had an old used 9800GT that had stripes, and I tried to bake it in the oven as I had done a couple of times before succesfully. This time it was overcooked though and some of the components fell of the printed circuit board.

Im considering a Sapphire HD4850 which I can buy for approx 40$ (too expensive for a used card?)

 

[JosEPh_II]

Too bad about the vid card. If you were here in the US I could send you my old Sapphire HD 4650. It was only used for about a year and a 1/2 and is still in good condition. But shipping overseas is rather expensive. And actually $40 is a bit over priced for a used one. Does NewEgg sell where you live? You could get New card with the 4850 specs for $40 if it does.

JosEPh

 

[Blue Senshi]

I really liked DCMs sieges (can bombard units) though its a dll mod and iirc it wasnt very AI friendly.

You could use the "AirRange" and "AirCombat" options in the UnitInfos file to give units the ability to bombard.

See below how the Fall Further mod has used it to give bombard to archers. No dll changes required.

<iAirRange>1</iAirRange>
<FeaturePassableTechs/>
<iCombat>3</iCombat>
<iAirCombat>2</iAirCombat>
<iAirCombatLimit>25</iAirCombatLimit>

I think it's better than DCM's version because you can use it to attack lone units. DCM's only causes collateral damage so it's useless for attacking single units. And the AI does use it in Fall Further.

 

[vincentz]

You could use the "AirRange" and "AirCombat" options in the UnitInfos file to give units the ability to bombard.

See below how the Fall Further mod has used it to give bombard to archers. No dll changes required.

<iAirRange>1</iAirRange>
<FeaturePassableTechs/>
<iCombat>3</iCombat>
<iAirCombat>2</iAirCombat>
<iAirCombatLimit>25</iAirCombatLimit>

I think it's better than DCM's version because you can use it to attack lone units. DCM's only causes collateral damage so it's useless for attacking single units. And the AI does use it in Fall Further.

Try to do it and you'll see the problem

hint : multiple movement points compared to vanillas 1.

It will give the units ALOT of bombardments every turn. Otherwise the idea is good

 

[Blue Senshi]

Try to do it and you'll see the problem

hint : multiple movement points compared to vanillas 1.

It will give the units ALOT of bombardments every turn. Otherwise the idea is good

I just tested it out and it turns out that it doesn't matter how many movement points the unit has. The ranged attack is the equivalent of a regular attack except that the siege weapon is not harmed and it can attack without being adjacent (depending on the range you give it). So, just as in a regular attack, it can only attack once per turn (unless it has blitz). Also, as in a regular siege weapon attack, ranged bombard will cause collateral damage as well.

You can't break down city walls with a ranged bombard attack. For that you have to be adjacent and use the usual "destroy defenses" button.

 

[vincentz]

mmm. i was sure I already tested it, and the effect was multiple attacks per turn.

will try again

 

[vincentz]

just tested again, and it does give multiple attacks per turn.
A unit with 10 moves will be able to attack ranged 10 times.

 

[Blue Senshi]

just tested again, and it does give multiple attacks per turn.
A unit with 10 moves will be able to attack ranged 10 times.

I'm testing it in ROM-AND and that doesn't happen.