Vox Populi Wonders Expanded

[Asterix Rage]

... Certainly other buildings, resources, terrain type and features can be used.

Here is the window to get a new race of WW. Multi-featured ? Marble, Mountain and Rivers around no policy required to open on some very rare and great WW

2nd Wonder for Policy Finishers - proposition

• Progress - Itsukushima Shrine (must be in a Coastal city) Then less reachable than Chartes Cat. #Compass
  • Cost of tiles -15% in all cities
  • Workers faster 25%
  • This city: +1 Culture from sea tiles and +2 Faith from sea resources
• Statecraft - Brooklyn Bridge (requires River) #Industrialization
  • Free Great Diplomat
  • +50% when producing diplomatic units in this city +33%
    
  • Grants additional Trade Route
  • Instant +50 Influence with all City States (t.b.d. the number)
• Artistry - The Monte Carlo Casino (requires Coastal city) #Fertilizer
  • Free Hotel in the city, +1 Tourism from all Hotels
    
  • Grants 1 Jewelry, and +1 Gold per 4 Citizens in the city 2 Jewelry > +1 TR
    
  • +15% Great Person rate in all cities
• Industry - Sears/Willis Tower (requires Fresh Water) #Electronics
  • This city: +2 Culture from lake tiles +1 Production from Fresh Water > (Industry flavor)
    
  • Free Broadcast Tower and Great Musician
  • All Broadcast Towers +2 Culture +2 Gold > (Industry flavor)
• Imperialism - White Sands Missile Range (requires desert nearby and consumes 2 Oil) #Rocketry. #Ballistics to get it a bit before missiles
• Grants 3 missiles in the city 2 missiles
• All missiles get +2 Range and +10% CS +0% CS
• + 15% Production on SS part
• Rationalism - Arecibo Observatory (requires nearby Mountain) #Radar
  • Free Great Scientist [but Hubble will grant only 1 GS!] No Free GS
    
  • +10% Science from Observatories [but Observatories will require a mountain nearby!] 0%
    
  • +1 Science from all Scientist specialists Big enought

____________________
How about making Science Victory a little more complicated by adding an additional step - sending Voyager Space Probe. It will be made into a project and put in between Apollo Program and Spaceship parts. Located #Robotics, together with Hubble, where you need to go anyway for SV.

Main Hubble WW required to SV ?!
... and SS part more expensive

 

[pineappledan]

Looks like there's already a wonder randomizer mod. I know that's not what you guys were planning exactly, but close.

heads up that Entemenanki is being used by the 4UC mod that others are working on

By-and-large the policy wonders list looks too Eurocentric. 9 wonders total, 7 'White people' wonders: 2 Euro Cathedrals, 1 other Euro wonder, and 4 American wonders. I propose as a guideline, 1 western wonder max per policy. This means non-European/US/CA/Aus wonder for Authority, Statecraft, Artistry, Industry, Imperialism, Rationalism. All the trees listed already have European wonders.

Arecibo seems too late for rationalism, and why would it need a mountain? It's built in a sinkhole; it's like an anti-mountain.

Alternative wonder for rationalism: Siku Quanshu - the largest encyclopedia/single piece of literature in existence prior to wikipedia

Alternative for Fealty: Teotihuacan or Tashi Lhunpo Monastery

Alternative for Statecraft: Ait Benhaddou

Could open this up and do 2 ideology wonders as well. Arecibo would fit well there maybe

Possible Alternate Freedom wonders: Tokyo sky Tree, Hollywood,

Possible Alternate Autocracy wonders: Petronas Towers, Hermannsdenkmal

Possible Alternate Order wonders: CCTV Tower ("The Trousers"), Marina Bay Sands

 

[Blue Ghost]

Not convinced that adding another project to SV would do anything to make it more interesting.

Industry already has a tourism-focused wonder It doesn’t need another one, especially as the tree doesn’t directly relate to tourism.

Other than that... Very nice!

 

[Infixo]

@Asterix Rage
Main Hubble WW required to SV ?!... and SS part more expensive
=> Confused, if you like the idea or not?
Progress - Itsukushima Shrine (must be in a Coastal city) Then less reachable than Chartes Cat. #Compass
=> I assume that with Tradition you will have less cities to build wonders in (actually, probably 1 - the capital), so there can't be any limits. With progress, by that time you should have cities on the coast easily.
Statecraft - Brooklyn Bridge +33%
=> OK
Artistry - The Monte Carlo Casino 2 Jewelry > +1 TR
=> I changed 2 lux from original mod into 1. I wanna keep Jewelry - it is so flavory for the casino. Maybe less gold but +1TR?
Industry - Sears/Willis Tower (requires Fresh Water) #Electronics +1 Production from Fresh Water > (Industry flavor) +2 Gold > (Industry flavor)
=> OK
Imperialism - White Sands Missile Range #Rocketry. #Ballistics to get it a bit before missiles
=> It was established on 9 July 1945 for testing German and American long range rockets, not to invent them. I think there is no better place than here.
+ 15% Production on SS part / 2 missiles / +0% CS
=> It clearly supports SV. Is it good for warmongers?
Rationalism - Arecibo Observatory (requires nearby Mountain) #Radar 0% No Free GS
=> I'll revert to original +5 Sci from Observatories, I wanna have some kind of relation here

 

[Infixo]

Not convinced that adding another project to SV would do anything to make it more interesting.
Industry already has a tourism-focused wonder It doesn’t need another one, especially as the tree doesn’t directly relate to tourism.
Other than that... Very nice!

SV: Idk, it's been the same like ever... I wanna hear more comments anyway.
Industry: After @Asterix Rage comment, I will change Sears Tower into more Industry-focus.

 

[Infixo]

By-and-large the policy wonders list looks too Eurocentric. 9 wonders total, 7 'White people' wonders: 2 Euro Cathedrals, 1 other Euro wonder, and 4 American wonders. I propose as a guideline, 1 western wonder max per policy. This means non-European/US/CA/Aus wonder for Authority, Statecraft, Artistry, Industry, Imperialism, Rationalism. All the trees listed already have European wonders.
Arecibo seems too late for rationalism, and why would it need a mountain? It's built in a sinkhole; it's like an anti-mountain.
Alternative wonder for rationalism: Siku Quanshu - the largest encyclopedia/single piece of literature in existence prior to wikipedia
Alternative for Fealty: Teotihuacan or Tashi Lhunpo Monastery
Alternative for Statecraft: Ait Benhaddou

I selected most of the Wonders from 'candidates' list based on number of subscibers on Steam. Basically top 25 (excluding those already used). I believe that this kind kind of 'voting' is best for what we want, i.e. more people playing VP and moe people having fun. Also - I will not create any new Wonders. I will only retrofit existing ones. Ofc, we can create new Wonders (they are actually quite easy) - anyone willing to do so is welcomed to do so - and then I will add them to the mod.
Siku Quanshu - need to be created
Teotihuacan - I saw this one on Steam, but since Aztecs are already in the game, it would be weird to have a Wonder that is their city. Also, it has an awful picture...
Tashi Lhunpo Monastery - This could be used. But it is XV cent. For Fealty/Statecraft/Artistry to need something available early-Industry (preferably XIX cent.) Maybe this could be added to "Holy City" wonders?
Ait Benhaddou Wonder - Good Wonder, but again it is XVI cent. See above.

 

[Infixo]

Could open this up and do 2 ideology wonders as well. Arecibo would fit well there maybe
Possible Alternate Freedom wonders: Tokyo sky Tree, Hollywood,
Possible Alternate Autocracy wonders: Petronas Towers, Hermannsdenkmal
Possible Alternate Order wonders: CCTV Tower ("The Trousers"), Marina Bay Sands

Actually, finding good Wonders for Ideologies is more difficult than other policies. So, I appreciate any help here.
Keep in mind one thing - they should be available in Modern or early-Atomic. So, basically period 1900-1950 more or less. VP uses things from 1886 (statue), 1939 (prora) and 1967 (motherland), so it kind of streched. Probably following the timing here might be more difficult.
Secondly - please propose bonuses as well. Names are easy to pick...
Anyway - some really good Wonders here.
Tokyo sky Tree, it is very similar to CN Tower? any bonus ideas?
Hollywood OK!
Petronas Towers OK, but timing is off!
Hermannsdenkmal needs to be created
CCTV Tower ("The Trousers") needs to be created
Marina Bay Sands I like that one the most, Poker Chips are great, but timing is totally off here

RE: timing
From the candidates list, the following ones are from that period: Mount Rushmore, Panama Canal, Rockefeller Center (+Sagrada Familia if we put smth else for Fealty)
Also some already in the game could be used for that, leaving space for new wonders: Brandenburg Gate (Autocracy/Order?), Cristo Redentor (Order/Freedom), Eiffel Tower (Freedom?), Empire State Building (Freedom?)

 

[Infixo]

Arecibo seems too late for rationalism, and why would it need a mountain? It's built in a sinkhole; it's like an anti-mountain.

Bletchely and Arecibo would be in the same column (2nd Atomic). But I do also think that Bletchley is too late. I will remove Mountain requirement, it is actually built in some hills (500 m).

 

[Infixo]

Ideology Wonders - proposition
Note that all 3 would be available regardless of L3 tenet. I am just placing them like that to show the idea of "cooperation" with L3. All grant 1 free SP. Also, I think that all Wonders should have 1 additional conditon for placing.

Victory types:

1. Domination
2. Science
3. Cultural
4. Diplomatic

Freedom

1. n/a
2. Space Procurements: Statue of Liberty (requires Water) +1 Prod from all Specialists [well, now it is a general-purpose WW, maybe could be tweaked a little to better support SV?]
   
3. Media Culture: Hollywood or Mount Rushmore (nearby Mountain) [both need to be defined from scratch]
   
4. Treaty Organization: Rockefeller Center (requires River) - double influence with all CSs

Order

1. Iron Curtain: The Motherland Calls (requires Hill) Free Police Station in every City, reduces Crime, better spies
   
2. Spaceflight Pioneers: Petronas Towers (requires No Water) [bonus should be changed into GE-related thing + increased GP rate] or Voyager Space Probe if putting it into SV project will not fly [it was a pioneer program too]
   
3. Dictatorship of Proletariat: Marina Bay Sands (requires Water) - free Hotel, 2 Poker chips, +33% Culture in the city, 2 Merchant Specialists
   
4. n/a

Autocracy

1. Air Supremacy: Millau Viaduct (requires River) - +1 movement for Armor, Archer and Gun units (no naval or air here!)
   
2. n/a
   
3. Cult of Personality: Cristo Redentor (requires nearby Mountain) [Brazil was basically a military dictatorship back then]
   
4. Tyranny: Prora Resort (requires Water) - 1 Hap per 2 policies, +10 Culture from pillaging tiles, worsen enemy spies [bonus should be tweaked a little to better go with diplomacy, not sure if e.g. Great Diplomat Points can be earned from pillaging]

 

[pineappledan]

I understand that popularity is good in the case of the wonders that are chosen, but simply picking the top 25 ended up having predictable results. It won't feel as good if all the wonders are from the same cultures over and over, and this mod is an opportunity to further diversify the wonder list. Frankly, VP did quite a bit of damage in this regard; it introduced 9 wonders into the game and every single one is European or American.

Re Freedom, we should try to make sure not all 3 wonders are from the same country. I think Rockefeller could be switched for Trafalgar Square, or maybe a new City of London wonder?

Regarding Teotihuacan. Chichen Itza is already both a wonder and a Mayan city. If you are going to bar any and all wonders which are ruins of ancient cities then that means no mayan wonders at all, and most Aztec wonders are out too.

If you want a space pioneers wonder, Petronas is out of place. this mod has a Sputnik wonder. 1 Free Technology. +50% Great engineer rate in all cities.

Autocracy air Supremacy wonder alternative - Autobahn - all units have +1 movement in friendly territory.

Cult of Personality - EUR (can use the Palazzo della Civilta Italiana as the icon) - Completing buildings yields tourism

Given the specific time, place and 'ideological alignment' demanded by fitting wonders to both a VC and an ideology, and have it be a mid-late 20th century wonder, I don't see how you are going to avoid needing to make some new wonders to accomodate. That's fine, it's just an icon and a splash screen. Nowhere near as complex as a unit

 

[Asterix Rage]

Main Hubble WW required to SV ?!... and SS part more expensive
=> Confused, if you like the idea or not? [COLOR=#59b300]SV harder is OK. A WW built to open SS part is just a useless bottleneck[/COLOR]
Artistry - [B]The Monte Carlo Casino [/B]2 Jewelry > +1 TR
=> I changed 2 lux from original mod into 1. I wanna keep Jewelry - it is so flavory for the casino. Maybe less gold but +1TR? [COLOR=#59b300]Less gold +1TR. Even better with a new lux[/COLOR]
Imperialism - [B]White Sands Missile Range[/B] #Rocketry. #Ballistics to get it a bit before missiles
=> It was established on 9 July 1945 for testing German and American long range rockets, not to invent them. I think there is no better place than here. [COLOR=#59b300]Yes[/COLOR]
+ 15% Production on SS part / 2 missiles / +0% CS
=> It clearly supports SV. Is it good for warmongers? [COLOR=#59b300]+ 20% Production on SS part / 2 free missiles / +1 range to all missiles. The point with missile is to send massive wave in the battle area. So make them cheaper for the glorious rocket man[/COLOR]
Rationalism - [B]Arecibo Observatory[/B] (requires nearby Mountain) #Radar 0% No Free GS
=> I'll revert to original +5 Sci from Observatories, I wanna have some kind of relation here [COLOR=#59b300]Nice move[/COLOR]

 

[Infixo]

Re Freedom, we should try to make sure not all 3 wonders are from the same country. I think Rockefeller could be switched for Trafalgar Square, or maybe a new City of London wonder?
Regarding Teotihuacan. Chichen Itza is already both a wonder and a Mayan city. If you are going to bar any and all wonders which are ruins of ancient cities then that means no mayan wonders at all, and most Aztec wonders are out too.
If you want a space pioneers wonder, Petronas is out of place. this mod has a Sputnik wonder. 1 Free Technology. +50% Great engineer rate in all cities.

te. That's fine, it's just an icon and a splash screen. Nowhere near as complex as a unit

Nice, nice I think it is starting to look good.
1. Freedom = Statue of Liberty + Hollywood + Trafalgar Square
2. Order = Motherland Calls + Sputnik + Palace of the Soviets
3. Autocracy = Millau Viaduct (earlier) + Anitkabir + Prora Resort

Chichen Itza is mostly synonymous to Kukulcan Temple, the main building which also an icon. Anyway, I am planning to add total 30-35 wonders, and there are non-Europocentric already on the list, e.g. I added Huey Tocali and Anitkabir recently.

Edit. Changed Marina Bay Sands into Palace of the Soviets and Cristo Redentor into Anitkabir

 

[Infixo]

@Asterix Rage Voyager would be a project not a WW. WW is only one, so it would block other players.
You start with Apollo, then send Voyager, and then proceed with Spaceship. SV is self-contained, other players can’t stop you, the only thing that matters is time. Making it harder = making it longer.
Also, maybe 1 or 2 parts could have Uranium as requird resource. It is usually harder to get, so it would require more careful planning (e.g. ally with cs or buy from AI which is not easy late-game, etc.) things could be more interesting.

 

[pineappledan]

I didn't see you mention Huey Teocalli before; it wasn't in your OP list of wonders. The 4UC mod is currently working to implement the following wonders as national wonders for specific civs:
Babylon - Entemenanki
Aztec - Huey Teocalli
Byzantium - Hippodrome
Huns - 6 Horns Council
Germany - The Teutonic Order
Portugal - University of Coimbra
England - the White Tower (Tower of London)
Iroquois - Sachem's Council

 

[Infixo]

I didn't see you mention Huey Teocalli before; it wasn't in your OP list of wonders. The 4UC mod is currently working to implement the following wonders as national wonders for specific civs:
Babylon - Entemenanki
Aztec - Huey Teocalli
Byzantium - Hippodrome
Huns - 6 Horns Council
Germany - The Teutonic Order
Portugal - University of Coimbra
England - the White Tower (Tower of London)
Iroquois - Sachem's Council

As I said earlier, I dont consider candidate list closed, I add some entries from time to time. Also not all WWs will finally make to the mod, it is simply too many.
I didn’t even know that National Wonders count as UB But on the other hand, all Uniques are National somehow. Huey is a WW in Civ6, maybe they could leave it like this?

 

[pineappledan]

Oh yes, Carthage, US, Venice and Assyria all have UNWs. If you added one of these it wouldn't be a problem, really, unless the mods used the exact same naming scheme for the assets. It would just be immersion-breaking if playing Aztec and you could build 2 versions of the same wonder

 

[Infixo]

I am working on fundamentals as of now. Doing WW mutually exclusive is not easy as an idea itself since the mechanism I wanted to use (mutually exclusive group of buildins) works on the city level. So it is ok for buildings, but doesnt scale into empire for wonders. I solved that issue, but it needs more testing.

Also if there is someone with good graphics software, I could use some help with .dds files. Somehow my paint.net can’t export into DXT3 fornat, which provides good compression. Some splash screens could be much smaller that way and the mod itself too.

 

[Asterix Rage]

@Asterix RageYou start with Apollo, then send Voyager, and then proceed with Spaceship. SV is self-contained, other players can’t stop you, the only thing that matters is time. Making it harder = making it longer. Let's see what it does
Also, maybe 1 or 2 parts could have Uranium as requird resource. It is usually harder to get, so it would require more careful planning (e.g. ally with cs or buy from AI which is not easy late-game, etc.) things could be more interesting. Yes

...The 4UC mod is currently working to implement the following wonders ...:
Babylon - Entemenanki
Aztec - Huey Teocalli

Nice to see concerns about integration between VPmodmods

 

[Infixo]

Ideology Wonders - revised proposition
Note that all 3 would be available regardless of L3 tenet. I am just placing them like that to show the idea of "cooperation" with L3. All grant 1 free SP. Also, I think that all Wonders should have 1 additional conditon for placing.

Victory types:

1. Domination
2. Science
3. Cultural
4. Diplomatic

Freedom

1. n/a
2. Space Procurements: Statue of Liberty #Biology (requires Water) +1 Prod from all Specialists [well, now it is a general-purpose WW, maybe could be tweaked a little to better support SV?]
   
3. Media Culture: Hollywood #Plastic (requires Hill) All Guilds +2 of the respective GP point and +25% inc rate of the respective GP. Also +5 Gold from each Guild.
   
4. Treaty Organization: Trafalgar Square #Steam Power (requires River, also policies req 17) Extend range of all TRs by 50%. All Cities CS +20%. Free Mine Field in the City.

Order

1. Iron Curtain: The Motherland Calls #Replaceable Parts (requires Hill) Free Police Station in every City, reduces Crime, better spies
   
2. Spaceflight Pioneers: Sputnik Program #Rocketry (requires Flat) Reduces Boredom. Spaceship Factories +5% Science and +20% Great Engineer rate. Increases Influence with all City States by 20%.
   
3. Dictatorship of Proletariat: Palace of the Soviets #Plastic (requires River) Factories +1 Cul per 4 Pop, all Great Works +1 Tourism. Tourism modifier for TR is increased by 15%.
   
4. n/a

Autocracy

1. Air Supremacy: Millau Viaduct #Combined Arms (requires Hill) +1 movement for Armor, Archer and Gun units. 25% Faster movement on Roads and Railroads.
   
2. n/a
   
3. Cult of Personality: Prora Resort #Flight (requires Water) 1 Hap per 2 policies, +10 Culture from pillaging tiles, worsen enemy spies
   
4. Tyranny: Anitkabir #Refrigeration (requires Flat) Reduces Boredom. All Military buildings (ex. Barracks) +1 GDP (Great Diplomat Point), Military Academy +25% Production towards Diplo units.

 

[Asterix Rage]

The thing is AI is often forced to get the ideology from the leader.
Let's see...
Idelogy is a big decision. Make the WWs a bit more sharper..